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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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is this a weak LSD experience?
    #5218569 -

Ok, so this past weekend I took two hits of what was undoubtably LSD on white unperfed blotter. I tripped for about 12 hours. I can characterize the entire experience down into one word. Boredom. I don't know whether it was what I did while I was tripping or what but I just felt bored the whole time. I tryed to watch movies, I tryed to go for walks, I tryed listening to my vast music collection, I tryed smoking excessive amounts of weed. Nothing but a whole lot of psychedelic boredom.

My mind didn't even seem too interesting. Is this the general quality of the experience or was it just weak shit? With 2c-i, something a lot of people call a shallow drug, I had tons more philosophical insight than with this LSD.

seriously, if what I experienced is what 'cid's about I don't understand the hype is about.

So, here is the question, will increasing the dose help me get more out of this stuff or should I just mark it down as the first psychedelic I've sampled that isn't worth my time and money?


--------------------

Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Kaleidoscope]
    #5218588 -

Take more.


If it dosn't work for you then I guess its just not for you.


--------------------
yawn...
SG

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Stonerguy]
    #5218612 -

Could just be a weak trip. One time I did just one hit of LSD - it was just enough for some mild visuals, nothing mental, and just a bit of a weird body-fry feeling. If anything, my mind felt like, 100% blank.

If I hadnt of been going to a club, and just stayed at home that trip - I would of been bored out of my tree. Strong enough to stop me from being 100% normal, but not strong enough to be interesting.

Edited by kaniz (01/24/06 05:14 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: kaniz]
    #5218668 -

I would guess that you had weak LSD and too high of expectations.


--------------------
All the people you knew were the actors

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: FunkyLoFi]
    #5219213 -

This is one hit of good gel tab acid in a dimly lit room(my art). Though it is abstract it is fairly accurate. When you see this you dont get bored, and your mind is in a very strange place.
Then again, most geltabs are not even this good, but one hit should be very interesting unless your used to very high doses.
You had weak acid. Like one other person said in this thread, take more if its that weak. You can expect that of blotter acid, and its usually not pure acid. Not that there are any other drugs in it, just one psychadelic variety of acid that is not pure lsd-25(a shitty synth).


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219258 -

eh... lsd is lsd man. there isn't "fake LSD," just different drugs.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219277 -

You didnt take LSD, sorry but you got bunked. You got something that made you trip but it wasnt LSD.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219279 -

I beg to differ, LSA springs to mind. Exactly the same chemical composition as LSD apart from one molecule.


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5219293 -

still not lsd though, even if it is similar, its still different by 1 molecule which could technically alter which neurreceptor it fits in (dont think it does im just sayin) but if it fits in the same one, the trip is still different because the emotions of the molecule run differently than that of sir.cid


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: TheGus]
    #5219352 -

No there is not fake lsd, just bad synths or totally seperate drugs called acid. Most of the good old acid gurus are aware of the many forms lsd can take. SOme have said that acid for the most part, will never be the same.
So no, acid aint just acid, "man".
Id like to have a link of all of the drugs called acid, most of them being directly related to actual LSD-25. Parts of finished or unfinished synths that are not real lsd-25 but are somewhat to VERY active..

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219380 -

This guy could even have taken lsd mixed with really pure extracts of lsa(made to make more money). They are well known on dead tours and come in liquid form(an easy way to make more money).
They are like a really lame and dirty feeling LSD. Its all lsd type drugs that are in it. They call it lavender most often.
Not many people have had real pharm-grade acid.
There are so many about 20-30 common active lsd like drugs that are synthesized more easily than lsd.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: TheGus]
    #5219398 -

My point was referring to fazdazzle stating that LSD is LSD and their are no "fake drugs". LSA is a very closely related "fake drug" to LSD. It is LSD actually if you were to do a lot of research into ergot alkaloids. The same substance (LSD, LSA was also found in larger quantities) was first found in Ergot (contains many poisons aswell), a fungus which grows on ryegrass and responsible for killing many thousands of people in medieval Europe with botchulism eating infected bread made from rye grains. The clever people in those days got high from the same deadly fungus. This is how Albert Hofmann eventually after many years figured how to synthesise LSD. An avid shroom lover aswell, good man.


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5219496 -

I was referring to him also. We are on the same page here Xenophobic .

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219511 -

Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: TheGus]
      #5219398 - 01/24/06 08:14 PM

It says, RE: TheGus


So yep, we're on the same page, but getting our wires crossed.  :smile:


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219551 -

stemmer said:
Not that there are any other drugs in it, just one psychadelic variety of acid that is not pure lsd-25(a shitty synth).



stemmer said:
No there is not fake lsd, just bad synths or totally seperate drugs called acid.



Care to explain?

This is what I'm saying: LSD is LSD. If it's different at all, even one atom, it's not LSD. There isn't a "family" of LSD molecules. If there isn't pure lsd-25 on blotter, then there are other drugs, even if they are chemically similar by six atoms or whatever it may be.

A shitty synth wouldn't lead to LSD or anything similar. It's going to lead to no LSD at all or some LSD and OTHER DRUGS.

stemmer said:
There are so many about 20-30 common active lsd like drugs that are synthesized more easily than lsd.



Reference/source please. If that are 20-30 lsd like drugs, why aren't they flooding the market? Why would people still want to make lsd if they can make an easier and similar drug?

Oh, and don't tease me because of how I speak; I don't tease you for being a dick.

edit: no hard feelings, I just didn't see the point in your attacking me personally just because I disagreed with you.

Edited by fazdazzle (01/24/06 08:50 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219583 -

Dick or no dick, I wouldn't tease you. I suggest you spend a lot of time researching at the very least. Or at the most, experience things before commenting on them so rapidly.

No disrespect, I can only say what I "know" from lots of experience, including Ergot. Read between the lines as you will and feel free to throw abuse but people are only trying to inform you.


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219584 -

Hmm could it be possible the acid was just extremely weak? I once was on a very small dose of mushrooms and the effects were bearly noticeable, I wasn't sure what to do if I should go about my day normaly or try and focus on the trip. Anyways I was extremely bored until I put on 2001 and that made it alot better.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Animals]
    #5219628 -

Im not a dick. "A shitty synth wouldn't lead to LSD or anything similar" ------> well it depends on what you started with etc. Did you really think while calling me a dick that there are not other ways to make lsd.
You also said, "It's going to lead to no LSD at all or some LSD and OTHER DRUGS"---> ya, other lsd like drugs. Thats why they call it impure. There are many easier ways to synth one of the 30 or so lsd-related drugs that you can fit on a blotter.
You asked, "Why are they not on the streets",
well its because of the Analog Drug Laws. I was not putting anybody down. It very well may have just been weak LSD-25 that "he" took. Though real acid doesnt typically come in weak doses. Its all good yall.

Edited by stemmer (01/24/06 09:06 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219636 -

stemmer said:
Im not a dick. "A shitty synth wouldn't lead to LSD or anything similar" ------> well it depends on what you started with etc. Did you really think while calling me a dick that there are not other ways to make lsd.
You also said, "It's going to lead to no LSD at all or some LSD and OTHER DRUGS"---> ya, other lsd like drugs. Thats my they call it impure.
you asked, "Why are they not on the streets",
well its because of the Analog Drug Laws. I was not putting anybody down. It very well may have just been weak LSD-25 that "he" took. Though real acid doesnt typically come in weak doses. Its all good yall.


stop bitching and link a source. What "LSD like" drugs. Only ones ive heard of are LSA and ALD-52


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5219648 -

"SO ive now been told Im (bitching)"? Thats not the case. Good god, look it up. LSD isnt like it used to be, it sure is similare. Like I said there is still pharm grade acid out there. Most just isnt prevalent for various reasons.
Whats the deal yall, I hope I do find the soarce. I didnt ask you to trust me without finding the info your selves.
Lsa is the active component in HBWR and morning glories, but yes sir, there are many many other active related alks in those seeds(for example).
You can find this info in many places as well as info about wy impure batches, and lsd-like chemicals are easier to synthesize.

Edited by stemmer (01/24/06 09:21 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219676 -

stemmer said:
Whats the deal yall, I hope I do find the soarce.  I didnt ask you to trust me without finding the info your selves. 
Lsa is the active component in HBWR and morning glories, but yes sir, there are many many other active related alks in those seeds(for example).
  You can find this info in many places as well as info about wy impure batches, and lsd-like chemicals are easier to synthesize.



im going to do a search. I just find it funny that you say youve read this b4 but have no references. :thumbdown:


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Animals]
    #5219682 -

There are many substances that will make you trip, but only one LSD. It is the most powerful, most insightful, most euphoric one of them all (strangely enough it has no 'uncomfortable' come up {for me that is}). Ive taken many of them and none compare to LSD (maybe Im just biased). IMO, Psilocin does not even come close to the power, soul searching or euphoria of LSD. LSD is the king of them all. Much 'better' then any phenethylamine or tryptamine known.

LSD made a 30+ year run with the GD for a reason. While many other psychedelics were available at the time, LSD was the one of choice. Its true many of the psychedelics available today were not available at the time (mid 60's->mid 90's), most of those available today offer no spiritual side AT ALL. They are drugs, LSD is more.

Then again, Im probably biased.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Gratos]
    #5219694 -

Im not saying that you didnt get a couple extremly low micro gram hits.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Gratos]
    #5219695 -

Is there really an extraction that gives you PURE LSA? I dont see how, lsa is such a small chemical and to get that especially in a liquid form doesnt seem possible. Unless you chemically make it but if you could why not just make lsd?

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: p4kSouL]
    #5219711 -

A number of analogues of LSD have maintained the diethylamide group unchanged, but additions or changes have been made in the pyrrole ring.

--indole-ring substituent--
at N-1 at C-2 Code
-H
-COCH3
-CH3
-CH2OH
-CH2N(CH3)2
-H
-H
-CH3
-CH3 -H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-B
-I
-Br
-I LSD-25
ALD-52
MLD-41


BOL-148

MBL-61
MIL

The second major location of variations in the structure of LSD has been in the nature of the alkyl groups on the amide nitrogen atom. Some of these are Sandoz syntheses, some are from other research groups, and a few of them are found in nature. Some of these have been studied in man, and some have not. A few of the original clutch of Sandoz compounds have both 1-substituents and amide alkyl (R) group variations:
indole --- amide nitrogen substituents ---
R= R= R= code name
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-H
-CH3
-CH3
-COCH3
-CH3
-H
-CH3
-CH2CH3
-(CH2)2CH3
-CH(CH3)CH2OH
-CH(CH3)CH2OH
-(CH2)CH3
-CH(CH3)CH2CH2OH
-(CH2)4CH3
-CH(CH3)CH2CH2CH3
-CH(CH2CH3)2
-(CH2)5CH3
-CH(CH3)CH2CH2CH2CH3
-(CH2)6CH3
-CH(CH3)CH2CH2CH2CH2CH3
-CH3
-CH2CH3
-(CH2)2CH3
-CH(CH3)2
-CH(CH3)CH2C6H5
-CH2CH3
-(CH2)2CH3
-(CH2)2CH3
-CH(CH3)2
-CH2CH=CH2
-(CH2)2CH3

-CH2CH2CH2CH2-
-CH2CH=CHCH2-
-CH2CH2CH2CH2CH2-
-CH2CH2OCH2CH2-
-CH2CH3
-CH(CH2CH3)CH2OH
-COCH3

-CH2CH2CH2CH2- -H
-H
-H
-H
-H*
-H
-H*
-H*
-H
-H*
-H
-H
-H*
-H
-H*
-CH3
-CH3
-CH3
-CH3
-CH3*
-CH2CH3
-CH2CH3
-(CH2)2CH3
-CH(CH3)2
-CH2CH=CH2
-(CH2)3CH3




-H
-H*
-CH2CH3

LA-111

LAE-32

Ergonovine


Methergine







DAM-57

LAMP


LSD-25



DAL

LPD-824


LSM-775
MLA-74
UML-491
APA-10
MPD75

This is one of the many sites that illudes to the fact that lsd can be called lsd but is impure, or many contituents are standing beside lsd-25 in your blotter(impurities).
I wish I had the really good info, but----------------------------------> here is the site http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: p4kSouL]
    #5219714 -

I agree with suimush, you should stop bitching. Whilst your researching, look up how to read aswell because I never called you a dick in any form. You were the one that said "Oh, and don't tease me because of how I speak; I don't tease you for being a dick.". Which is insulting me, but I'm not so low as to stoop to such a low level.

I said, "dick or no dick, i wouldn't tease you.". Which in English means, I may be a dick, or may not, but I wouldn't tease you. You have a lot of learning to do. With LSD/LSA/Ergot & learning how to talk to people in a civilised manner.

Either contribute some experience, or go and cry to your mommy, I'm really not interested. As I'm sure many others aren't.


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219723 -

Sorry for the missing other half of the info, its all in the link anyways.
The info ill find for you next is the info about how most living acid guru types know why acid IS what they call impure, and why. That might take some time, time I dont have.
Also Ill eventually try to find info about how most of these similare and active alks are easier to synth, and are experientially similare.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219728 -

--

Edited by stemmer (01/24/06 09:39 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5219731 -

ok, but that says nothing of prevelance on the streets which i would say is non-existant.

Synthing LSD is so expensive, so difficult to produce, obtaining precurser chems is so closley watched, and the fact that you have to know the right people to pull it off, that generally anyone attempting to do it wont fuck it up cause they have so much invested into it.

This aint meth were talkin about here.


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


Edited by sui (01/24/06 09:41 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5219754 -

Sorry for the interesting post.
Next time Ill rely on the simple experiential lsd texts of old acid gurus as they pertain to the quality of lsd today.
Weve got some hard asses in here saying, "all the acid ive tried was pure or some totally unrelated drug".
Well , I dont have any more quotes time etc to spend on this.
If you really think all acid tabs are the same,(not counting unrelated chemicals). Some research would do you some good.
Just experientially noticing that some acid is acid but not pure would say alot more about your observational skills.

Edited by stemmer (01/24/06 09:50 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219765 -

stemmer said:
Sorry for the interesting post.
Next time Ill rely on the simple experiential lsd texts of old acid gurus as they pertain to the quality of lsd today.
Weve got some hard asses in here saying, "all the acid ive tried was pure or some totally unrelated drug".
Well , I dont have any more quotes time etc to spend on this.


you dont have to get defensive. It was interesting. it had some info i hadnt read b4.

but still i highly doubt that any of those chemicals is on the streets anywhere.


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5219786 -

so if I wanted to make lsd how would I get all the chemicals that are required?

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: p4kSouL]
    #5219802 -

Do u have experience in organic chem?

i highly doubt that many people have any access at all.

I wouldnt even have a freakin clue where to start looking :shrug:


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: p4kSouL]
    #5219818 -

Youd need some schooling buddy, and more equipment than youd want to messy your life with.
No offence suimush but thats like saying chemists are all reading from the lsd textbook, which does not exist. There are faster more cost effective ways to make lsd-like molecules. They dont all get this shit off the net.
This is a family drug, a chemist's drug. A blood thinning drug in its beginning(breakthrough). You dont think there are people who make one of the many possible active chemicals to save time, money/equipment. There are many precursors to LSD-25 that are deadly, some are active hallucinogens. The stages at which they eb and flow between active and nonactive depends on the method. The finished product depends on when your synth has met its end, or when you choose to end it with a related active chemical that you can sell.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219843 -

I really am not bitching. Just encouraging people to read up some more if they think all acid is either acid, or something totally different. Thats just not true. I hope to find many links to prove this because I wouldnt have the time to explain it even if I had the texts right infront of me.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219853 -

I really want to know how people actually get the lsd, if its like impossible to make it at home wouldnt people have to steal it from a lab or something? Do they even make lsd in labs?

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219898 -

Bollocks. I told you to research at "the least". Yet you still yabbit on with your uninformative babble. I could make a thousand doses and so could half the people on this board in two days. You obviously never payed attention in chemistry classes, old habits die hard I see.

Go to google, type your question, a billion answers will arise and you'll have no-one to argue back to with insane comments. If all you want to do is argue with everybody, why use a forum? Walk into a bar. Actually don't, because you'll most likely get the biggest punch in your mouth you've ever had. Better be safe than sorry.


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219920 -

stemmer said:
I hope to find many links to prove this because I wouldnt have the time to explain it even if I had the texts right infront of me.


I'm not here to prove you right.

And with the dick comment I was talking to stemmer and nobody else.

stemmer said:
So no, acid aint just acid, "man".



You were being condescending and I wanted you to know you were.

Sorry for upsetting you Xenophobic, but that wasn't directed at you.

Whoa, hold the phone now Xenophobic...

Xenophobic said:
I could make a thousand doses and so could half the people on this board in two days.



Just to make sure you're talking about doses of acid, right?

LSD is NOT easy to manufacture.

Xenophobic said:
You obviously never payed attention in chemistry classes, old habits die hard I see.



I am studying biochemistry right now with hopes to move on to neurochemistry in graduate school.

Edited by fazdazzle (01/24/06 10:29 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5219927 -

Are you being disrespectful to me or p4kSouL?
Are you for real either way?

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219932 -

Whooaaaaa their fazdazzle, hold your horses.

I was talking to stemmer, and every post I have made has been directed towards stemmer. It isn't you talking rubbish about LSD. Sorry if it sounded as if I were talking to you, but I wasnt.

In the top of my post and every post it says:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. LSD is NOT easy to manufacture? It is. I speak from experience.


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219933 -

Its all about the context. Then youll know who is talking to you.
fazdazzle, ill just say how funny I think you are.
I hope you read textbooks better than text-chat.
Holy crap dude.

Edited by stemmer (01/24/06 10:34 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219942 -

stemmer said:
I hope to find many links to prove this because I wouldnt have the time to explain it even if I had the texts right infront of me.


I'm not here to prove you right.

Well since you won't be specific with where I'm being funny I'll assume it's here. I thought you said "I hope YOU find..." simple error. I quoted everything I talked about, so you should know who I'm talking to.

Xeno - ah, sorry bud.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219944 -

DO THEY REALLL!Y MAKEE LSD LAVBS SMOMG OMG OMG!

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219946 -

No probs :smile:


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219953 -

Xeno, This has all been a little bitty precursor to a possible internet search on your part.
No need to get all flustered like fazdazzle.
Yall are some ironic people via the net.
Its cool, just try to see what I was saying without insulting me, him, and the other guy. This is a complex subject. One day after taking some acid you will notice that some acid is different, its still like acid, or it has other acid liike substances in it.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5219954 -

Xenophobic said:
PS. LSD is NOT easy to manufacture?  It is.  I speak from experience.


Hmh, well I guess I'm wrong then; I've never tried my hand at making lsd, so all my evidence is anecdotal.

There are a lot of steps though and one must be careful. I assume for a skilled chemist it isn't incredibly hard.

Edit: I just saw you added that part xeno otherwise I would have commented earlier.

p4ksoul: yes lsd is made in labs. I don't know where. I'm not sure if the government makes any lsd at all. People buy chems from chemical manufacturing companies.

what a thread... :rolleyes: sorry for being part of the party that hijacked your business Kaleidoscope  :frown:

Edited by fazdazzle (01/24/06 10:46 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219961 -

AGAIN Xeno and yall, This has all been a little bitty precursor to a possible internet search on your parts.
No need to get all flustered like fazdazzle.
Yall are some ironic people via the net.
Its cool, just try to see what I was saying without insulting me, him, and the other guy. This is a complex subject. One day after taking some acid you will notice that some acid is different, its still like acid, or it has other acid liike substances in it.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5219965 -

Was the first person to chew bark from a willow tree and realised it cured their headache a skilled chemist? Or the Indian residing in the Amazon eating two different types of plants and discovering the effects of Ayahuasca?

Thier's no skill involved in the production of LSD. Just lots of learning and patience. Knowledge is power.

P.S.

If you frequented this forum a bit more often you'de know not to babble tedious comments about LSD at me. How many times do I have to say, "from experience"? Of which you obviously have of a 15 year old.


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Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5219978 -

True that, Its the rip off chemicals that are in the family these days(part of the few texts i wish I could find).
Dont buy your acid at a dead show. Youll trip, oh yes, but it aint pure acid(most likely). Far too much body load due to other ergot alks.
If you buy geltabs, you might be getting the best anyone can offer.
Raves have better acid than hippy shows. Ive never been to a rave, but I know what they yeilded for our part of town.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5219999 -

Nothing to do with "elg alks" as you put it. That's the age old scenario of man making money. Dump rubbish (not naming chemicals) into the mixture and they're laughing whilst you think you've got the real deal.

The chemicals they mix with it are nothing to do with Ergot. If that was the case they'de be people dropping like flies all over the place, they don't want to draw attention to themseleves by any authority.


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Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5220130 -

Maybe your right even though ergot alkaloids are what lsd type chemicals are often referred to as(I wont hold that against you though ergot extracts etc are major part of the synth). I have only gotten what was pure acid around 15-20 times. The others were VERY-much like acid(no doubt that if not acid, there was some acid in there, but who am I to tell. I have taken some big doses in my time, but no research chemicals.
I was just connecting the dots. Ive had pure acid, so have those guru types. Both have said something has changed.
Im not some fucking chemist. If you find something interesting about what I was saying, then find out if im right. I gave you some direction atleast. Dont be a dick and pick apart things that are already true. Your right ergot aint no lsd, and Im right, lsd is commonly synthesised from ergot alkaloids.
I dont really care dude.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220165 -

"If you find something interesting about what I was saying, then find out if im right."

#1: I don't find you remotely interesting.
#2: I don't need to find out if you are right because you are wrong.

and # 3: Go to bed before you embarrass yourself even more.


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Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5220177 -

all this bickering is going no-where.

there is no way to say how prevelent all of those compounds listed in tikhal are on the streets or even if they are.

you guys are going to keep going in circles.

stemmer- youve brought up alot of interesting points, but the fact is that those alkoloids probobly arnt on the streets. I would highly doubt it.


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5220195 -

Your right dad, it's getting silly now. :smile:


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Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Xenophobic]
    #5220204 -

Xenophobic said:
Your right dad, it's getting silly now. :smile:


:lol: Good little kiddies. Now go to bed, you have school tomarrow. :rofl:

















































































:bongload:


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"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5220209 -

Its sad for sure.
Xeno........... pick your battles big guy.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220228 -

I'll let you post one more message after this stemmer. Just to let you have the last word, as I can tell you're immaturity will demand that. I will not be replying to you after this regardless of what your response is. I listen to my Daddy (above lol) maybe you should listen to your own biological father or did he kick you out of the house because of your weird mental attitude. Night, and don't forget, learn, research and most importantly, experience. Then lecture.


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Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220234 -

You made a great point, your a ninny.
I was presenting the other side of the story. Like I said Im not a chemist.
Many think its "changed". Call it what you will. Look it up and look for more than is the first that pops into google's matrix.
And suimush, I hope that made you feel better.
(the guy who contributed the least linear conversation to the thread).
I was talking about acid. Drop me some links big guy.
Maybe then ill respect the outcome of this thread, I wont let it end with some condescending remark.
LSd is not always the same, not only because it has other unrelated chemicals in it.
Silly ay?

Edited by stemmer (01/25/06 12:31 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220272 -

i didnt have anything to contribute. Like i said you guys are going in circles.

I hadnt read that link you posted stemmer, it was interesting, but there isnt really any way to say how prevelent they are.

if you come accross this "mystery acid" so often, have a strip tested and post the results. Otherwise is just hersay/speculation.


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220274 -

Look it up.
I tried to not be offensive by specifying that I know nothing about research chems that could fit on a blotter. The two of you are too quick to get offensive/defensive all at the same time.
I was referencing chem-charts and experiential info. Maybe if I was a chemist and knew leary and friends, youd believe me. I was just saying that I have experienced pure acid, as they have.
To put it simply, some acid reminds you of lsa's, some is good acid, and some is so pure and trips you out so hard, and with so little body load that you say, hey....this is the real thing.
You dont have to believe me, I offered all I could to your search for the answer on this one. My search was over once I found sheets worth of blue gel tabs, liquid made in europe(pharm grade), put into gels in the US. Im sorry if you feel differently, just dont get out of line next time. Talk about getting your lines crossed, then what the hell is this?

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220303 -




Verifed DOB on blotter i came accross it a few weeks ago as acid.

This is all over the country along with some othe DOx chems, some possible 2c-x chems, also some 5-meo-amt blotter is said to be going around. Theres even a post in one of the last few pages of the recent LSD prints thread about some spoungebob blotters with an RC on it.

I think the RC blotters are more prevenant than these LSD like substances.

Ive been looking for a verified case but ive come up with nothing so far. I just dont think they are out there man, like i said verify it and post, thats the only way to know.

EDIT: i didnt mean to offend you, if i did i apologize. :smile:


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


Edited by sui (01/25/06 12:56 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5220354 -

I do actually have something to add to this. I have indeed ingested lsd from different sources, that had varying effects. Some acid i'd eat 4 drops and it'd be a pretty light and mellow trip, with somewhat of a body load. Even taking 10 of those drops doesn't seem like the same as other dose i've had (i wonder about 30+ hits, maybe it'd be a lot more far out like most dose i've eaten). Some acid i'd eat 2 hits and be tripping balls, reacting to my thoughts, watching myself do mad things.

I don't agree with most of what's being posted in this thread, but i really do think there's 'different' sorts of acid. I can't explain it. Like i know they've all been acid, but different (not because of set and setting).

Also, stemmer, it's hard to believe you when you seemingly can't post ANY links to verify what you're saying. I'm not being harsh, i'd love to believe you from my experiences, but can't. I'd search myself if i thought i'd come up with anything.


--------------------
things that are oooobvious...

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Kurenchai]
    #5220373 -

No U wouldnt without knowing. Thats what makes us different.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220377 -

If you were not someone like me you wouldnt care. It all "works"
right?

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220407 -

No clue what your last 2 comments were referring to...but you have all this time to post messages on this forum, but not to find links simply to spread some truth (or back your shit up?)? Sources?


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things that are oooobvious...

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Kurenchai]
    #5220423 -

Its all links and experiential info, sorry dude.
If you read like one is supposed to. I was talking about others, me and you in their/my shoes. Dont get weird on me just yet....

Edited by stemmer (01/25/06 01:49 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220434 -

Maybe each one of us will get 'let in' to this secret info some day, but until then...


--------------------
things that are oooobvious...

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Kurenchai]
    #5220456 -

Its not secret dude. Acid is ACID, some of it is different though. Ive thoroughly enjoyed both.
You can contradict my feelings and observations all you want. There is much info on the degradation of lsd over the years. So dont shit on me.
I only have experiential info, backed by almost 30 years of synth techs and acid gurus. Im sorry I didnt find the links. They are not my first priority, so I did not have them though I know them to be true.
Thats cool with me. If you know what your talking about, then all acid is the same unless its altered with totally seperate drugs, or is a seperate drug its self.
RIGHT?

Edited by stemmer (01/25/06 01:59 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220473 -

Honestly though, never mind.
If you cant tell the difference then it doesnt matter to you, lsd might as well vary in so many ways.
I didnt come here to persuade you that some lsd is pure and most is different than pharm-grade(LSD-25).
Its all good man, like I said in many posts before. It takes some reading to understand why some is different than other. Im not insulting you, ive been lucky enough to KNOW why. To KNOW beyond my/your interpretations. SO dont worry about it.
I really didnt mean this to be directed at anyone. The best acid is not just more often potent. I dealt 2 sheets of pure acid over 3 years cautionsly. It was the real deal yes, and yes Ive had some varieties that were almost as potent. None were the same. And yes, this was lsd-25, not some of the wall dose per hit of something we couldnt have taken at the dose of 2 hits.
People would eat each hit in fourths and trip quite hard.
No this was not pcp, or DOM, this was pure and potent LSD-25.
Most people knew its reputation and would hold it in their hands and wonder what to do with 3 hits. It was real acid, came on in 20 min. and lasted 12 hours. If you took 3-4 it would last for 3 days easily. This was not an RC, or lsd with an RC, this was pure acid(made in europe) put into gels in The US.
That was the real deal. Ive never seen anything even close to that geltab dose per tab since. I got some ufo blotters one day and they were just as pure, but not as potent.
If you know what im talking about, the guy who ate that ten strip of some shitty acid thats good for him.
If hed gotten ahold of some gels of this type and ate the same amount he would have not only have made a fool of himself, he might have been taken to the hospital.
You cant see, cant feel anything real after 5 hits of the best gel known to man. They were not just more potent, they were real acid.
Pure, like lightening.
The come up was fast, the comedown slower but way to intense for most. Real acid it different than the 100s of blotters you have tried.

Edited by stemmer (01/25/06 02:36 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220494 -

stemmer said:
Its not secret dude. Acid is ACID, some of it is different though. Ive thoroughly enjoyed both.
You can contradict my feelings and observations all you want. There is much info on the degradation of lsd over the years. So dont shit on me.
I only have experiential info, backed by almost 30 years of synth techs and acid gurus. Im sorry I didnt find the links. They are not my first priority, so I did not have them though I know them to be true.
Thats cool with me. If you know what your talking about, then all acid is the same unless its altered with totally seperate drugs, or is a seperate drug its self.
RIGHT?


I'm not shitting on you. It's just hard to believe what a single person says, because getting that sort of information is just a huge game of telephone these days.

I also agree that lsd isn't the same as it was in the 60's...i've found some good lsd threads by a member on here named ChinaCat or something, he's old family and knows what's up. He's done thumbprints, crystal, you name it. I'm going to message him and see if he can verify any of this. If he can't, no problem, i still don't doubt you, i still just wouldn't believe you until i can find out for myself.

Brother, i'm not insulting you. I'd just like to be able to come to a common understanding with what's being said.


--------------------
things that are oooobvious...

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Kurenchai]
    #5220529 -

Really, dont worry about it. Im not very offended.
Its all good.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220540 -

"Confused master of Chaos and Disharmony".
I dont expect much, or anything. Just dont worry about it, most acid is experientially very much the same. I dont expect any links Ive given, or and experiential info to resonate with you.
I have no time to prove anything, yet I can find one way or another to value what you have said to me.
Till later dude....

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220773 -

Wow, this thread really exploded over night, and dont have the time to read through 6 pages of it now.

But - LSD /DOES/ come in varying levels of purity, from the 95% pure white fluff /needle point, down to stuff that is only like, 50%-60% pure.

From another post on this site...

Quote:
# Needlepoint-very pure(95% ) white powerdery crystal,was available in small amount`s. The best of the best
# White Fluff-Very pure(95% ) white light flakes of crystal. Still around and the most sought after. very pure
# Silver-Good and clean(85-90% )-light greyish crystal. Was an unbelievable amount of this around in the late eighty`s and early nineties. Very good stuff. My first thumbprint was this kind. If you ate acid in the 80-90`s you probably sampled some silver.
# Amber-Decent(70%?) This crystal varied from a light amber color to an almost dark brown color.Was always available.One batch called quadricept amber was the color of light honey and was very good.Lot`s a people worked with this crystal but I always would use silver instead since it was better and the same price.
# Lavender-(60-70%?) light purple to almost black colored crystal. Like amber it varied batch to batch.
# TJ(tornado juice) - purity unknown. I seen this shit in about four different colors and it always scared me. No experiance with it.
# Champagne-(50-60% ) black crystal, nasty stuff IMHO. I worked with it once and swore to never touch it again.



To think that 50% pure stuff will give the same trip as the 95% pure stuff is a bit of a laugh. The other compounds in the rest of the 5-50% (depending on the batch) of the substance may or may not be active and affect the trip - but they could.

The white fluff/needle point from what I hear, tends to be a very clean high, almost no body buzz, with the lower purities having a bit of a 'dirtier' high.

As with any drug, there is high-quality LSD, and there is low-quality LSD, and the expierence on a high quality will differ from a low-quality trip.

Also, something I just read which is also interesting...

Quote:
Well as you probably know already Glogg, (this info is for everyone that don't)! There was an experiment done in the late 60's. There was a batch of LSD made, this batch was mix with 3 or 4 different colors and placed into gel caps. They where passed out to people throughout the city.

Well as the reports came in, each colored pill came back with a different story. i.e. one was speedy the other was mind blowing etc... placebo-isms? I say so, knowing and observing people all around me. Indeed Set and setting is a major factor in the psychedelic experience.



--- I'd be curious in finding more information relating to that expirmenet.

But in short : No, not all LSD is the same.

Edited by kaniz (01/25/06 05:58 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: kaniz]
    #5220778 -

What everyone was bickering about is the prevelance of LSD like substances on the streets.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml

Whats your thoughts Kaniz? Do you u think these chems are floating around on the streets somewhere?


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


Edited by sui (01/25/06 06:10 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5220799 -

I really have no idea, however - I wouldnt say its impossible. But, I'm also inclined to think that its not very likely that the people producing LSD are aiming at making the analogs of it. As from what I've read, the analogs tend to be far weaker than the LSD in itself.

If the analogs are easier to make, or if they can be a byproduct of impurities in the reaction - possibly (?? anyone have any idea?)


I'm no where even high up enough in the chain of things to have a clue to what is being layed, by who, how, and from what source. Just a little end-user and I'd rather keep it that way.

But, I do think that there is LSD going around of various levels of purity - no matter what, you are not going to get a 100% pure synth of LSD, there will always be impurities in it. I think the varying levels of purities does affect the trip all around.

I've had LSD from 3 or 4 different blotters, and as far as I know - it's all been real/legit LSD and not an RC, however each of the blotter has varied a bit in the effects and the 'cleaness' of the trip.

The over all experience is pretty similar. Similar come up, similar peak, similar duration. However, some of it has just been a nice crystal-clear clean high, where others have had a bit of a 'dirty sinister push' to it.

I'd be inclined to say its the purity of the LSD that creates those differences from batch to batch.

That being said - I dont know enough about chem, or LSD chem to know if the analogs listed in TIHKAL could be accidently created during the proccess as impurities, or if they are easier or harder to make than normal LSD.

Edited by kaniz (01/25/06 06:40 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: kaniz]
    #5220803 -

thats pretty much what i figured too, that it was a matter of set/setting, mental state at the time of the trip, varying ug doses on the blotter. I didnt even think about that post of chinacat's that you posted about the different grades of crystal, but i bet that has a big effect too.

I doubt very much that any of those analogs are on the streets.

I figure if you have the knowlege, resources, and access to the precurser chems, why wouldnt you just make the L. :shrug:


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #5220945 -

You all are right, all acid is pure acid.
lets leave it at that.....

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: stemmer]
    #5220997 -

Stemmer, there is a difference between impurities and analogs - as far as I know that is, I'm no chem-major.

Technically speaking, there is no 'pure' LSD in the 100% LSD form - but, there is /very/ pure LSD ie: 95% needle point, to somewhat pure LSD, ie: lavendar that is 70%. Mind you, what is that other 30%? I really have no idea.

Although, I am curious - could that other 30% possibly be other analogs/etc that are byproducts of the reaction? Is that other 30% active in other ways? Either in terms of the psychedelic/mental affects? Or, in terms of body-affects, like speedyness, 'dirtyness', tension, etc.

But, as far as I've read, everything I've seen has alluded to the fact that the analogs of LSD (with possibly the exception of ALD-52, which is NOT on the streets), are not as potent as LSD.

So no, its not all 'pure acid' on the streets, I'd say its LSD of varying levels of purities, with the % and type of impurities present affecting the overall expierence.

But, 95% pure LSD, and 60% pure LSD, is still LSD.

I've poked around and read alot, and thats what I've managed to gather - if you have a link/source or a reference to point me towards, I'd be happy to read it. But, from what I've read, it's either

- LSD, of varying levels of purity
- Or, a research chem being sold as LSD


Edited by kaniz (01/25/06 08:36 AM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: kaniz]
    #5221435 -

I agree with your summation, kaniz.

I just didn't understand the analogues of LSD bit. I actually didn't know there were that many analogues of LSD though, stemmer, which is pretty interesting. I just highly doubt they are easier to make and just as effective *IMO*

The only other chems on LSD, from my knowledge of chemistry, come from "side reactions." These are undesirable reactions that occur during the sythesis process and that typically cannot be avoided completely. The more skilled the chemist, the less side reactions are going to happen. The chances of a side reaction being psychadelic? I would guess nearly non-existent. It's usually "normal" chems such as water or hydrogen bromide or things like that.

I am actually really interested in knowing what the differences are. I've been out of the chem thing for a while (took time off school) but I'm gonna check out the synthesis and see if any off-shoots could be psychadelic.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #5226220 -

OK sorry for taking so long to get back to this. I guess if you all are trying to figure out if I actually took lsd-25 can sum up the body load and what not.

first off, the blotter tasted like paper and nothing else, ruling out RC's for the most part. BR-DFLY could still be possible but due to the length of trip/amout of blotter consumed I'd say it wasn't that either.

The trip had a tryptamine feel to it

body load consisted mainly of two weird but stereotypical feelings:
bugs crawling on me and snakes crawling on me.

lasted 12 hours.

A friend who tryed the this batch before me and hooked me up said 2 hits was a strong trip...then again, his idea of a strong trip and my idea could be different as he is more the type to try these things merely to get fucked up rather than to explore one's mind.

anyway, if I can get more of this stuff, from what I've read I should take more...I'm probably going to try it again with 4 or 5 hits as the 2 hits I took were really easy to handle.


--------------------

Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Kaleidoscope]
    #5226456 -

LSD- From crystal to blotter

def a good read if you dont know shit about LSD synths.


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.

Edited by coda (01/26/06 03:15 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: coda]
    #5226462 -

Thats more about laying/distrobution, but stilll i think thats my favorite thread here at the shroomery :grin:


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix


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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: sui]
    #8401415 -

This is a completely hypothetical story:

Sorry, I realize I'm really new around here (having registered just to post in this thread), but I've had several experiences and they've all varied greatly. At first I thought I was getting either really low doses or lavender, etc.

There is a reason why LSD experiences vary so greatly without any help from additives. According to an interview that I read, and a lot of research that I've done on the subject, you can indeed get 100% real (not /pure/) LSD which varies by batch depending on the carefulness or carelessness of the chemist. A chemist who is serious about his shit (the people making white fluff and needle point) are going to make sure their product is CLEAN. this equates to thin layer chromatography being done until all impurities (i.e. alkaloids and other assorted non-LSD molecules) are erased. This can yield an LSD-25 to non-reactants ratio of over 99%-1% if done enough times. According to Owsley, not only does purity (of the LSD-25 chemical itself, not what is on the blotter or in the vial) significantly effect all aspects of the trip, but higher purities also tend to create a more positive vibe during the experience and generally a more "cliche" acid trip--more distinct visuals, more cosmic/magical, less body load. So chances are if you run across something that gives you a 5+ trip on one hit, it's probably not the dose, it's the purity of the chemical.

I'm not saying that there aren't batches of "LSD" out there with god knows what floating around in them: there most definitely are; but most people who've experimented with the various sorts floating around can tell when they've hit the Lady. Unfortunately at low purities, with no help from LSA additives (which wouldn't be worth putting on a blotter) or DOB or 2C-i or ayahuasca or GHB or Tylenol, 100% real LSD can still be only 20% pure, which is why there is so much debate about this subject.

In summation I would personally attribute most bad vibes, dark spots, heavy body loads and scary monsters experienced on fairly reliable LSD doses to impurity in the chemical itself, not in any additives.

Incidentally, Owsley claims that his batches of white lightning and all that followed were 97-99% clean, and I believe that. I also happen to know for a fact that there is 96+% pure floating around today.

Here follows the interview segment that spurred most of my research. I'd like to point out the fact that Owsley addresses the ease of making the stuff (unfortunately the same cannot be said for attaining the reagents) and the long kept secret that all your old guru hippie friends don't want you to know about: MOST EARLY LSD INGESTED BY COLLEGE STUDENTS AND PROFESSORS AND CIVILIANS IN GENERAL WAS NOT PREPARED IN SWIZERLAND BY ALBERT HOFFMANN WHILST RIDING A BICYCLE AND BOUNCING ON A TRAMPOLINE. MOST EARLY STREET ACID WAS BLACK TARRY UNFILTERED GOO MADE BY FORMER AMPHETAMINE PRODUCERS. ONLY A VERY LIMITED NUMBER OF PROFESSIONAL PSYCHIATRIC INSTITUTES IN AMERICA WERE GIVEN PERMISSION TO EXPERIMENT WITH PURE SANDOZ IN THE '60's, AND BESIDES, CZECH ACID WAS MUCH MUCH BETTER. And for those of you preparing a boast about how good Owsley's acid was back in '65, do remember that until about 1969 (the age of Orange Sunshine) it was nearly impossible to find the kind of acid Owsley was producing anywhere outside of lower California. That should shut some people up. Read a book. But, then again, maybe Owsley Fucking Stanley isn't a reliable enough source for you lot. Few seem to be.

Source:

B: So the earliest acid you got was mixed — some of it was good and some of it wasn’t good?

O: Most of it was terrible. It would make you high, but it was so full of impurities and other things that it was a totally rough trip.

B: Where do you think the impurities come from?

O: I’m not God. I can’t look into a brownish liquid and tell you what’s in there. There’re all kinds of derivatives of ergot containing various derivatives of lysergic acid that are active in some way in the body. St. Anthony’s fire, do you know about that? It was the result of ergotamine in the ergot growing on rye which was made into bread in the Middle Ages, made your fingers and toes drop off. They are very complex, many of the derivatives, and most of them are active — and when you are doing a synthesis you get all kinds of things that hook up to the lysergic acid molecule. Breakdown products, isomerization — who knows what’s in there?

I’ve had this conversation with Sasha many, many times. I’ve said: “Sasha, as you approach higher and higher purity, you get more and more magical.” He said, “Well, you’re ascribing a very high activity to very minute amounts of impurity.” I said, “I don’t know whether that’s true or not, but there’s something going on there.” Then later I got to thinking about this, and realized that perhaps the impurities are like a kind of catalyst. A catalyst can catalyze a reaction at extremely minute quantities, and often these catalysts are not affected by the reaction. Who knows that there isn’t some catalytic/synergistic effect that occurs? Where you have 100 mcg. of LSD and you have nanograms of some strange fellow-traveler impurity that actually catalyzes the effect of the LSD on the nervous system into something else. I’m not going to say that this is what’s happening, or that I necessarily believe this, but I do know that as you purify LSD you very quickly come to a point where it will not dissolve in the solvent from which you have crystallized it. It gets to a point where it’s insoluble in the methanol, and you have to heat this for such a long period of time in fresh methanol that some of it breaks down. And once it has broken down, only then will it dissolve. So there’s a lot of strange stuff going on with this “chemical” that doesn’t necessarily work according to the usual principles of chemistry. There’s no more chemistry to making LSD than there is to baking a bloody cake. You just have to know how to do it. What parts to use, what temperature to set the oven, etc. Most of it is published, and that which isn’t published is available to an investigative mind. The correct and accepted term for those who make the entheogens is “cook.” I like to think of it as a sort of Gourmet Chef, master of Fine Mental Cuisine.

Now, Sasha is a chemist. I’m not a chemist, I never pretended to be a chemist. I’m an artist. There’s no more chemistry to making LSD than there is to making a bloody cake. You just have to know how to do it. What bits to use, what temperature to set the “oven”, etc. Most of it is published, and that which isn’t published is available to an investigative mind. It helps to be smart, if you’re bright and you pick up on things and pay attention, you can pretty soon figure out what was left out of the published account. On the other hand, a chemist is a person who, wanting to make a compound, having an idea of the structure, evolves in his mind a synthetic process to produce it. To verify the structure of a known original compound is the usual reason for development of a synthesis for a naturally occurring or semi-naturally occurring compound. He is synthesizing this compound in order to prove its structure, or to provide a means of manufacturing it other than extracting it from a plant. A chemist is a highly skilled person. I don’t have any of those skills. What I did is like following a recipe.

B: But your acid had a reputation back in those days. Purple Haze, White Lightning, was always considered the most esteemed of all the acid that people could get back then.

O: I always tried to do it as well as my ability would allow.


--------------------


Check out my psychedelic acid rock: http://www.myspace.com/kingbeelovesyou

Disclaimer: All posts on this site concerning illegal substances are fictional accounts. I in no way endorse the use of or use any of these substances myself.

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Kaleidoscope]
    #8401673 -

If a person has the apparatus/experience to produce LSD, I would highly doubt they wouldn't be able to separate some different substances. Crystal structures can be easily changed by recrystallization with different solvents/temperatures, etc.

There is so much bullshit here, and no fact.

But here's one: You can NOT go about guaging the chemical purity of LSD by your experience with ingesting it.

The absolute first thing that any reputable source of information on psychedelics will tell you is that experiences are going to very massively on person, set, and setting.

I have not made LSD, nor do I have a relevant degree, but I know a little, and I really doubt that all these potent LSD analogues are being coproduced in its synthesis that I haven't heard about until now.

It all seems far fetched, especially when the main advocate of this theory stubbornly refuses to back his ideas up, but instead tells us to do his research.

I can't submit a thesis and list no sources, and then at the back of the paper add a note saying "Reader- Do the research, it's all true!" :tongue:

Edited by Orbital_Saucer (05/14/08 04:52 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Orbital_Saucer]
    #8401745 -

I'm really lost. Was that an attack on what I just said? If so I backed up my statements with the Owsley interview, but I can cite more if you need. I thought the word of the man who is likely one of the most knowledgable people alive in this subject may count.

I'm not out to impress all you bickering pseudo-scientists on the shroomery forum, I was just trying to throw something out there that I've had on my mind for a while. It was intended as a crash course in purity for people who don't understand how "perfectly real LSD" can feel like a bad Vicodin hangover, not a fucking peer-reviewed essay for Science weekly.

But we can go there if you need.


"If a person has the apparatus/experience to produce LSD, I would highly doubt they wouldn't be able to separate some different substances. Crystal structures can be easily changed by recrystallization with different solvents/temperatures, etc."

What you're talking about here has relatively little to do with what I'm talking about. You're referring to the whole process, and I'm just referring to the end process of purifying the chemical. This has relatively little to do with equipment and more to do with the cook. If a person wants his shit to be on fire, he's going to run it through chromatography five or six times and clean it up each time. You really need to do some research on how LSD is purified and the mechanics of thin layer chromotography before you go inciting a feud, or do I have to link you to erowid first? Sorry if I'm not in the mood to lay out the mechanics of the modern chromatography machine, I thought you had access to wikipedia.

I assume that the people who understand the process of manufacturing LSD understood this reply and know how thin layer chromotography works and those who don't probably don't care to read a short essay by yours truly on the subject in a shroomery thread.


--------------------


Check out my psychedelic acid rock: http://www.myspace.com/kingbeelovesyou

Disclaimer: All posts on this site concerning illegal substances are fictional accounts. I in no way endorse the use of or use any of these substances myself.

Edited by songcycle67 (05/14/08 05:15 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: Orbital_Saucer]
    #8401807 -

No it wasn't.

And while I would probably disagree with you on a couple points, I wasn't really commenting on you, as you clearly are representing your ideas in a coherent and respectful manner.

Apparently my strategy of not picking names backfired. Apologies.

-Also, I suppose I know the basic principles of chromatography, but nothing past that.

Silly me:
With something as small and precious as LSD, simple recrystallization probably wouldn't be done. :smirk:

Edited by Orbital_Saucer (05/14/08 05:22 PM)

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Re: is this a weak LSD experience? [Re: songcycle67]
    #8401840 -

My apologies!  I shouldn't have reacted so hastefully.  And you're wrong, in the traditional recipes recrystallization is done; several times in fact.  The numerous recipes and newfangled things like peptide coupling reagents make the synthesis itself almost impossible to discuss, simply because there are so many forms.  Hopefully people will continue to use the standard tlc to purify or even purification will be hard to discuss.

You did make me realize that I should've included a statement regarding set and setting.  :blush:


--------------------


Check out my psychedelic acid rock: http://www.myspace.com/kingbeelovesyou

Disclaimer: All posts on this site concerning illegal substances are fictional accounts. I in no way endorse the use of or use any of these substances myself.

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