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OfflineFeelers
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5553020 - 04/24/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm geussing he's meaning that you start with the best precursors. I'd say the more difficult part comes from only having access to the most basic ingredients, and the extractions ect that are required.

Man thats crazy that those two made nearly all the acid. Someones gonna step up to the plate to fill the void though no doubt. In those graphs why is there already a downward trend before they were arrested? Their arrest only made it slightly steeper. It is just me or does that show that it was something else causing the drop - and not their arrest?


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OfflineUncleLuke
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5553035 - 04/24/06 10:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Could you possibly use a hit of acid to spawn a cultivation of ergot??

I know if you put mushroom spores in honey it'll create even more spores....


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Edited by UncleLuke (04/24/06 10:08 PM)


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OfflineShroomer215
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: UncleLuke]
    #5553186 - 04/24/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, i think it is a good thing that its hard to make. That way no ignorant people try and make it then sell it without testing it.


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Registered: 01/29/03 Happy 21st Shroomiversary!
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: UncleLuke]
    #5553223 - 04/24/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

LOL
Is that a joke?


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Offlinemar1juana
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: PinballWizard]
    #5553275 - 04/24/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i remember some thread by some guy, chinacat was his name perhaps, but yeah does anybody know the location of thees thread or his name perhaps? it was some olderr guy who was somehow knew somethin bout lsd... i just put this in here because it is somewhat on topic and i didnt want to clutter this place with another thread : /


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OfflineNickSoapdish
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: mar1juana]
    #5553308 - 04/24/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)



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Offlinemar1juana
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: NickSoapdish]
    #5553326 - 04/24/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

thanks


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5553971 - 04/25/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If LSD were so easy to use how come they almost never bust labs




You are deducing, you are not looking at the facts. Along the same lines its easy for any of a bunch of arab terrorist orgs to send a hitman to get Bush every other week, but that isnt happening either.

Many people make LSD, only the scale at which they can acquire precursors limits the size of their operations to small circles.

There is a LOT of LSD around, but the demand is much bigger, bigger than in the 1960s. You can take a million doses of LSD to let's say New York on monday and having sold it all on sunday.
"everyone" who has the bread wants to buy a sheet of 100. Now that is wisdom, but also creates a drought, as do the people who use a whole ten-strip every time they trip.

Quote:

That recipe, if it is true would mean that making LSD is easier than making meth




Voila, thats why I typed it down.
You can swap trifluoroacetic anhydride for Carbonyldiimidazole. Or thionyl choride. Or phosphorous oxychloride. If you have Lysergic acid then all you have to do is turn it into an amide. And if you have the right reagents, making an amide is peanuts, almost as straightforward as making soap.

The trick is to get the right reagents, and especially a precursor which is either lysergic acid, or an amide thereof.


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinetwiggedoubt
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
    #5554267 - 04/25/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well 50% LSD mixed with 50% corrosive/poisenous byproducts isn't exactly ready for the market anyway, though at that low of a dose it might not really matter. I'm majoring in chemistry in college, but at this point I really can't speak on what I don't know. The hive is shut down, synthikal doesn't have enough people. For now I'll take your word for it cause you seem to know what your talking about, but this is contrary to what I've always been told, though I do know someone that would know on BL, I'll PM them for their feedback.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5554376 - 04/25/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

HEEY now Wiccan... that "synth" you posted may create LSD but how much is iso? what are the byproducts? No column? That is why amatures and any one who can get a precursor do not make LSD. Because to make it CORRECTLY requires the knowlege of a master of organic chem,and "artistic" sense of your work, and a willingness to extensively clean ones product using chromatography. Now find the people who have these qualities and separate thosewilling to take GREAT chances with the law. Now subdivide out of that group those who can get precursors and lab equipment.The number is getting smaller. Now put ALL of the requirements together in a place which is safe to work in then you make the LSD. Does everyone see how it bottlenecks? For the reasons outlined only a very few people make LSD. And yes the demand is fueling a low dosage high price condition.
WR


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To old for this place


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: whiterasta] * 1
    #5554635 - 04/25/06 11:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Well 50% LSD mixed with 50% corrosive/poisenous byproducts isn't exactly ready for the market anyway, though at that low of a dose it might not really matter.




Quote:

HEEY now Wiccan... that "synth" you posted may create LSD but how much is iso? what are the byproducts? No column?




The reaction produces a mixture of LSD base and Diethylamine trifluoroacetate, the latter in smaller amounts than the LSD which poses no health risk in doses normally encountered, from the weakass blotter to the full thumbprint. If you did a sloppy job you might end up with some Diethylamine lysergate or N,N-diethyl-trifluoroacetamide.

The product is definitely ready as-is. If your reagents were pure and your procedure correct you will have a mixture of PURE LSD with a few substances that do not matter. No tars, no iso-LSD, no mess.

Quote:

That is why amatures and any one who can get a precursor do not make LSD.




Not true :smile:
Amateurs wont let purity issues keep them from "synthing drugs", just look at the appalling quality of the Meth, PCP and Meth-Cat recipies out there. Amateurs seldom undertake this endeavor because they lack access to pure precursors.

If Ergotamine was abundantly present in OTC pills (like that Meth precursor is) then LSD would be all over the place, in all shades of purity.

Quote:

Because to make it CORRECTLY requires the knowlege of a master of organic chem,and "artistic" sense of your work, and a willingness to extensively clean ones product using chromatography.




Ah you're talking LSD Chemist ethics!
The kids nowadays have very little of it. If you don't view LSD as a Celestial Messenger (like we do) but rather as a bigass moneymaker that goes for $10.000 a gram (like your average kid would) then there is no need for chromatography and all that stuff: if the product is only 5% pure its still marketable in the form of geltabs :frown:

Quote:

separate those willing to take GREAT chances with the law.




I'd say more than 1 in 5 here would go for it if he really could. The law only counts when you get caught.
This is O.D.D: we are all immortal and untouchable :rolleyes:

Quote:

Now put ALL of the requirements together in a place which is safe to work in then you make the LSD.




I have tried to stop people here from evaporating a liter of industrial solvent in their bedroom. I was labeled an alarmist.
People will make it wherever they live, and basically some chems and a tub full of ice are all you need to make it in the back of your car :wink:

-----

The only thing that matters is the availability of pure precursors and associated stuff.

Look at the TiHKAL recipy. If you think you cannot do it you are selling yourself short, Whiterasta. I think you can be meticulous enough and I know you're intelligent enough. (and then some!)

If you can get the chems, associated stuff and a working procedure on a xeroxed sheet of paper most people of IQ 120 and up, with a scientific mindset, can study LSD synthesis and precursor acquisition and end up with a small homemade batch of passable quality LSD in this year or the next.

Quote:

Shulgin said:
.
A suspension of 3.15 g d-lysergic acid hydrate and 7.1 g of diethylamine in 150 mL chloroform was brought to cook in a closed flask, using a bowl of hot water, with swirling. It was taken from the bowl and there was added 3.4 g POCl3 over the course of 2 min with an eye dropper, at a rate sufficient to maintain boiling. The mixture was held at a boil in the closed flask for an additional 5 min, at which point everything had gone into solution. After returning to room temperature, it was added to 200 mL of 1.7% ammonia. The solvent layer was taken, dried over water-free epsom salt, filtered, and the solvent evaporated to yield LSD




It is THAT simple if you have the reagents. Most people who extract their own DMT could do it if they just had the chems.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Seuss]
    #5554658 - 04/25/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

id like to snort me a key bump of lsd.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Registered: 01/29/03 Happy 21st Shroomiversary!
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
    #5554910 - 04/25/06 01:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think you are exaggerating the simplicity of these techniques abit here W_S. That Shulgin "quote" you paraphrased there is leaving out some vital information. The steps to lysergic acid have to be done under anhydrous and inert conditions to have any hope of a decent yield. Likewise the LSD is sensitive to light, heat, moisture etc.

If you don't have the equipment to do this right - stirrers, heating mantles etc. - and experience with the methodology, it's not going to happen in practical terms. At least, it's not going to happen with any acceptable yield / purity / safety margin, within a reasonable number of attempts. That ET ain't easy to come by, you wouldn't want to waste it.

Maybe you know amateurs who have made acid before but I think that is pretty damn rare.


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OfflineDrJ
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #5555849 - 04/25/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If you have the equipment LSD is cheap to make. Thats why, when its available here, its only ?2-4 a trip.


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"Worse?? Or Better?!"


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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: DrJ]
    #5556744 - 04/25/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

This is a good thread. I've often put LSD production out of my mindset. I assumed it was way impossible to even synth a little for myself(which is the only person i care about having lsd).

Is that tek you just spelled out accurate? What amounts do you mix in? Or what ratios of amounts?

Thanks for renewing my faith in LSD production Wiccan Seeker.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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Offlineresin
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Nephlyte]
    #5556873 - 04/25/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I also thought it was only somthing that the "family" could make, and that all the recipies outthere are bullshit. But e.t. in the us is as hard to find as E.T.(phone home)


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Offlinepantsboy
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: resin]
    #5556994 - 04/25/06 11:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I get my LSD directly from the source himself:
:jesus:








He got popped though and now I need to find a new hook. :frown:


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Acid doesn't hurt when you're on fire. :frown:




"Mushrooms are only similar to penises in their appearance." - LeBron James (2013)

ToiletDuk said:
"Bus squelching is not to be laughed at."


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Registered: 01/29/03 Happy 21st Shroomiversary!
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: DrJ]
    #5557334 - 04/26/06 01:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The reason LSD is cheap (on a per hit basis) is because it is so highly potent, ie. a small amount can make alot of doses. The reagents and equipment required are, presumably, not cheap. Not that I have ever bought ET.

resin: The "family" aren't the only people who have produced LSD - just look at Pickard, he wasn't family. It's my understanding that the family was more of a distribution network. In any case it's ludicrous to think that they could have a monopoly on the knowledge - anyone can find syntheses in the literature that work.

PS - To W_S:  :shocked: your "tek" has popped up on bluelight with someone discussing doing it! http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=251512
The bluelighters seem to think it's dangerous and won't work.


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Edited by DadeMurphy (04/26/06 02:04 AM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: DadeMurphy] * 1
    #5557582 - 04/26/06 05:05 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Quote:

The bluelighters seem to think it's dangerous and won't work.




The Bluelighters also believe that you fall off the edge of the earth if you sail too far west. Here there be dragons, yeah right :smirk:

Quote:

a Bluelighter said:
.
In reality, it's not much better than the "Foster Larger" technique that circulated years ago.




:rolleyes:

Funny how Shulgin considers it a viable pathway. Theres a consistent tendency among Bluelighters to make originators of ideas they do not quite dig look like retards, such as comparing the trifluoroacetic anhydride synthesis to "Foster's Lager".

Contrary to what you said on Bluelight it was an open thread rather than an email correspondence and in no way am I even remotely intending to make LSD. I'm the guy with the bullhorn, the ones who'll try won't speak out.

I gave this synthetic pathway as an example of the simplicity of some methods of LSD production. Like our resident h4x0r said, I simplified it a bit, however the procedure is of breathtaking simplicity.

Here's how you make high purity LSD with trifluoracetic anhydride:

Quote:


Synthesis of LSD using Trifluoracetic anhydride
.
Step I. Use Yellow light
.
5.36 g of d-lysergic acid are suspended in 125 ml of acetonitrile and the suspension cooled to about -20 C in a bath of acetone cooled with dry ice. To the suspension is added a cold (-20 C) solution of 8.82 g of trifluoroacetic anhydride in 75 ml of acetonitrile. The mixture is allowed to stand at -20 C for about 1.5 hours during which the suspended material dissolves, and the d-lysergic acid is converted to the mixed anhydride of lysergic and trifluoroacetic acids. The mixed anhydride can be separated in the form of an oil by evaporating the solvent in vacuo at a temperature below 0 C, but this is not necessary. Everything must be kept anhydrous.
.
Step II. Use Yellow light
.
The solution of mixed anhydrides in acetonitrile from Step I is added to 150 ml of a second solution of acetonitrile containing 7.6 g of diethylamine. The mixture is held in the dark at room temperature for about 2 hours. The acetonitrile is evaporated in vacuo, leaving a residue of LSD-25 plus other impurities.
.
The residue is dissolved in 150 ml of chloroform and 20 ml of ice water. The chloroform layer is removed and the aqueous layer is extracted with several portions of chloroform. The chloroform portions are combined and in turn washed with four 50 ml portions of ice-cold water. The chloroform solution is then dried over anhydrous Na2SO4 and evaporated in vacuo.
.
Source: Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist




Foster's beer indeed :rolleyes:

Please notice how you can replace the dry ice/acetone bath (which is OTC btw) with a freezer, as its only objective is to keep the reaction at -20 'C.

Please note that the (highly toxic) solvent does not have to be removed under vacuum because it is about as volatile as ether.

The last (purification) step is optional, but requires only chloroform and sodium sulfate or epsom salt (both OTC laxatives which can be oven-dried to the required anhydrous conditions)

Please also note the absence of inert atmosphere or lighting conditions more demanding rthan a screw-in lightbulb. The only pressing conditions for the reaction is to keep it strictly anhydrous and use well-measured reagents.

Tell me that an expert home extractor of DMT can't do this after studying up on the specifics, if he has the chems and the most basic equipment.

-----

I am sick and tired of the cynic/nihilist culture among the online psychedelics community. People echo the myths that LSD can only be made by a person of stellar intelligence who is a leading scientist and hindu saint with a million dollar laboratory using reagents that can only be stolen from the DEA headquarters.

This intimidates many bright youths from even looking into methods of LSD production. One of the main reasons for the LSD shortage is that too many people think that it cannot be done.

I'm also tired of interforum rivalry and smiting people of unconventional opinions with thunder until they conform to the norm that it cannot be done and that you cannot ask questions. This is so far removed from the idealism of the First-Generation Psychedelic Movement (which paved the way for us) that it isn't even funny.

IT CAN BE DONE PEOPLE!

The strategic precursor (lysergic acid amides) can be acquired OTC from growing your own ergot from genetic material of the sclerotia that are present in every bag of "organic" rye. (agar work --> liquid culture --> extraction --> purification)
Attached you find the Sandoz process. The liquid culture medium can consist of whole grain rye flour boiled in water to yield a liquid.

I'm convinced LSD itself can be made entirely OTC, though the process will be very involved and unusual.

The chemical equivalent of the elusive Ergotamine Tartrate (ET) can be had OTC through this technique, and in less developed nations it can be ordered and bought locally. You might even find a disillusioned "establishment" chemist willing to do the synth in his own lab.

It can be done people! It's a bit harder than I briefly outlined in the earlier post, but nowhere near as difficult (or even impossible) as most people here think it is.
If you are bright and want to do it, then STFU about your plans to anyone and get busy. Use the internet anonymously to gather the info you need and then proceed.

I'm just here rallying and shouting with a bullhorn that this dream can be dreamt :wink: but others may decide in silence to very cautiously start dreaming a dream of their own.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Registered: 01/29/03 Happy 21st Shroomiversary!
Posts: 908
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
    #5557593 - 04/26/06 05:18 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Err...sorry if I offended. It wasn't I who posted at bluelight on the subject, I just spied that post and tried to direct your attention there.
I wasn't saying your methodology won't work, or that the synthesis can't be done by someone committed to it. All I said was that you were simplifying things a bit and making it sound TOO easy.
There's a tendancy to use a bit of hyperbole on these boards in order to argue a point. It can lead to miscommunication or percieved rivalry when there is no offense intended.


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