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OfflineFilamentousFungi
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Harlz]
    #13192589 - 09/14/10 01:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Owsley "I’m not a chemist, I never pretended to be a chemist. I’m an artist. There’s no more chemistry to making LSD than there is to making a bloody cake. You just have to know how to do it. What bits to use, what temperature to set the “oven”, etc. Most of it is published, and that which isn’t published is available to an investigative mind. It helps to be smart, if you’re bright and you pick up on things and pay attention, you can pretty soon figure out what was left out of the published account. "


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: FilamentousFungi]
    #13193084 - 09/14/10 07:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FilamentousFungi said:
Owsley "I’m not a chemist, I never pretended to be a chemist. I’m an artist. There’s no more chemistry to making LSD than there is to making a bloody cake. You just have to know how to do it. What bits to use, what temperature to set the “oven”, etc. Most of it is published, and that which isn’t published is available to an investigative mind. It helps to be smart, if you’re bright and you pick up on things and pay attention, you can pretty soon figure out what was left out of the published account. "




Uhm.... while chemistry is indeed involved in making a cake, I think comparing synthesizing LSD to baking is comparing apples & oranges.  More like comparing bicycle chains and pillow covers.  There is a LOT of chemistry involved in LSD synthesis and there are a LOT of ways you can harm yourself if you screw up.  From the last time I baked a cake, I seem to recall that I would have had to be baking one messed up cake (like a cake made out of LSD) to risk blowing myself up, or risk poisoning myself by getting a drop or two of the ingredients on my skin.  Saying that a person who synthesizes LSD is not a chemist is like saying that a neurosurgeon is not a doctor.  Sure, chemistry is an art as well as a science - just like surgery.  That doesn't make it any less of a hard science though; in fact, it may make it MORE of one.

And Laotzo's point about dimethylhydrazine is spot-on.  Plus, that's only one of the extremely hard to get, very-watched chemicals that you need to do a LSD synth.

I'm sure glad there are people out there who have the knowledge, the access, and the gumption to synthesize LSD; I'm also glad that, because of them, the rest of us don't have to worry about it.

Edit: I wanted to add that I am not trying to crap on Owsley; I know nothing about the guy except for the quote that was posted.  If that quote really represents the attitude the guy took/takes towards chemistry, though, I'm not so sure I'd want to take anything the dude made.  Still, very smart people often have some pretty nutty ideas and say some even nuttier things.  As I said, I don't know the guy at all so I'm not sure if he is/was a quack or a visionary or both.  That quote, however, is pretty quack-a-licious.

:2cents:


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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." - Carl Sagan


Edited by the spiral (09/14/10 07:59 AM)


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OfflineFilamentousFungi
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: the spiral]
    #13194442 - 09/14/10 01:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

First of all if you think that Hydrazine is used in current LSD production then you need to take a half day and do some research.  Hydrazine was used by AH to make it the first time.  He came out with a later patent that was much less difficult to work with.  The other methods conjured up since have only made the process less difficult.  You may want to take a look at the synth route that Casey Hardison came up with to get an idea of what it takes to make LSD today. 

Secondly Owsley is very spot on with his statement.  If a person is only following an experimental procedure then they are a "cook" not a chemist.  A chemist envisions the synthesis and can process it, whereas a cook only follows a synthesis.  If I were you I would take a quick second to lookup Owsley Stanley and LSD.  You might be surprised how pure that "cook" made his product.  All he did was follow paperwork that he was acquiring from the library at Berkeley.


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: FilamentousFungi]
    #13194468 - 09/14/10 01:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well, this seems to be a debate that's purely on semantics.  I maintain that anyone who could synthesize LSD is someone that I, at least, would consider a chemist - regardless of what recipe they use, it's not comparable to something like methamphetamine manufacture where I suppose I'd agree that you could call someone doing that a cook.

Even so, just because you're following a synthesis that someone else has done before doesn't mean you aren't a chemist.  Just as following a peanut brittle (mmm...peanut brittle) recipe your grandmother taught you doesn't make you less of a cook just because you didn't come up with it yourself.  Not all the chemists employed at pharmaceutical manufacturers, for example, are in the R&D department; I think they would take offense at being called "cooks" instead of chemists just because they are following a synthesis that's already been discovered.

And yeah, as I said, I don't know a thing about Owsley so my intention is not to bash the guy.  I simply don't find that one quote to sit well with me.  That's all.


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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." - Carl Sagan


Edited by the spiral (09/14/10 01:52 PM)


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OfflineFilamentousFungi
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: the spiral]
    #13194518 - 09/14/10 02:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

the spiral said:
Well, this seems to be a debate that's purely on semantics.  I maintain that anyone who could synthesize LSD is someone that I, at least, would consider a chemist - regardless of what recipe they use, it's not comparable to something like methamphetamine manufacture where I suppose I'd agree that you could call someone doing that a cook.

Even so, just because you're following a synthesis that someone else has done before doesn't mean you aren't a chemist.  Just as following a peanut brittle (mmm...peanut brittle) recipe your grandmother taught you doesn't make you less of a cook just because you didn't come up with it yourself.  Not all the chemists employed at pharmaceutical manufacturers, for example, are in the R&D department; I think they would take offense at being called "cooks" instead of chemists just because they are following a synthesis that's already been discovered.

And yeah, as I said, I don't know a thing about Owsley so my intention is not to bash the guy.  I simply don't find that one quote to sit well with me.  That's all.




I have never made Meth so I can't speak about the process, but I would imagine that Reflux is a major part of the RXN.  I don't think that there is much more to making LSD than meth...Owsley was a meth cook before he started cooking LSD.  The sensitivity to light(go buy a red photo room bulb), and CC purification steps are the only thing that is more labor intensive.  Methlabs have the same issues with air and water, hence the occasional explosion.  Experimenting with inert atmospheres, and making substances anhydrous is not very hard either, just labor intensive.  FWIW there are more steps in a MDMA synth than in a LSD synth.


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Offlinegingey420
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: FilamentousFungi]
    #13196560 - 09/14/10 08:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Can I link a pdf of the uncle fester book guide thing?


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OfflineStatuesCryBleeding
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: gingey420]
    #13196595 - 09/14/10 08:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I've heard the procedure itself isn't all that hard, it simply takes a proper chemist to follow proper lab protocol and to get access to the necessary glassware/regents.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: StatuesCryBleeding]
    #13196639 - 09/14/10 08:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

StatuesCryBleeding said:
it simply takes a proper chemist to follow proper lab protocol and to get access to the necessary glassware/regents.




Well, that's the hard part isn't it? :lol:


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Offlinehightimesreader
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: FilamentousFungi]
    #13210082 - 09/17/10 03:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

How hard is it to synth a DNA coupler?


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OfflineFilamentousFungi
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: hightimesreader]
    #13211680 - 09/17/10 09:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Good question hightimesreader.  I don't think that they are hard to make, but just $$$.


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Offlinehightimesreader
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: FilamentousFungi]
    #13214207 - 09/18/10 01:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What about this diethylmethylamine? Seems like a harder one. I googled it and didnt find much. Hydrizne is made from urea or is that something else? I may be mixing two. But there are a few that proceed from LSA directly isnt there?


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OfflineFilamentousFungi
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: hightimesreader]
    #13214235 - 09/18/10 02:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Should be easier to make.  It's probably not very watched, but do some research on it first.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: PinballWizard]
    #13214251 - 09/18/10 02:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PinballWizard said:
I've had conversations with people where they tell me someone they know is cooking LSD.  I try to explain that it requires a degree in chemistry, thousands of dollars in lab equipment, and chemicals closely watched by the government.  They don't believe me though, because I don't know anything specific.




i myself wouldn't make the stuff with anything less than a $40,000 lab. i know it's illegal but why sell bad crap to people. then again when you make it right it's psychologically dangerous so i guess either way it's a risk but still might as well be meticulous with that crap.


don't forget it's extremely illegal and if you get any on your hand watch out!


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: hightimesreader]
    #13214263 - 09/18/10 02:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hightimesreader said:
What about this diethylmethylamine? Seems like a harder one. I googled it and didnt find much. Hydrizne is made from urea or is that something else? I may be mixing two. But there are a few that proceed from LSA directly isnt there?




whoa!! :shocked::eek:


diethylamine they won't send you unless you order it from a certified business, more likely a research department. anhydrous hydrazine is pure but dangerous, you plan to mix diethymethylamine and hydrazine?

i don't know i would never screw with this but be careful..........


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: imachavel]
    #13214297 - 09/18/10 02:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i think you can distill it from deet.

hydrizine is relatively dangerous stuff, so i'm not sure what kind precautions they take on that.  That might be hard to get.

can anyone comment on the hydrizine?


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OfflineFilamentousFungi
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #13215035 - 09/18/10 05:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Diethylmethylamine and diethylamine are two different substances.  The diethylmethylamine replaces hydrazine.


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OfflineMajesty
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: PinballWizard]
    #21817790 - 06/17/15 05:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I know this is an old post but I find these old LSD related post's very interesting, and also find it interesting how things especially on the internet have changed the last say decade.
When it comes to LSD synthesis, and the chemistry behind it. I for one believe in most countries the hardest speed bump isn't getting a viable precursor ergopeptine's aren't that hard to locate in nature / botanical ventures. and Purifying the ergopeptines / ergoloids down to Lysergic Acid isn't that difficult either albit time consuming, it can be done by most people with basic chemistry knowledge on Hawaiian baby wood rose seeds or morning glory seeds, an extraction of the amides, and then condensing them to lysergic acid for the last parts of the synthesis. After a person has Lysergic Acid, they've no need for ergotamine tartarate for it's only a starting point for lysergic acid, then apparently the next steps involve the acquisition of a Secondary or Tertiary amine, aswell as things such as Phosphoryl chloride, peptide coupling reagents, depending on your workup, thats the most difficult part for anybody with an intermediate grasp on chemistry and lab safety, would be acquiring not the precursors but the chemicals used in the later part of the synthesis are heavily watched for several different reasons and their not exactly easy to synthesize either. If only you could pick up some Pocl3 & C4H11N at your local hardware store.


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