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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


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Abortion: is it killing babies?
#5515735 - 04/14/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I say yes, abortion is baby killling. I'm also for abortion. As long as the cord isn't cut I'm A-OK with it. I realize that this position is a sore subject for many (my mom was at an anti-abortion rally on the side of the road yesterday, for instance) but it's really what I feel should be a human right.
Let's please discuss the issue without any heated arguing.
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Namaste
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: RedNucleus]
#5515837 - 04/14/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe the process of consciousness becoming clothed in form begins early on, so I believe it should be avoided at all costs and should be extremely rare.
At the same time though, it is a complicated issue, that brings up various scenarios, like rape, as well as women's rights, etc. I just don't like the idea of abortions on demand simply because a baby would pose an inconvenience for someone.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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jcdangerously
I'll Cut You

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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: RedNucleus]
#5515846 - 04/14/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The way I see it, abortion is the only sensible choice. There is a population problem in the US. I believe we as a society should be focusing on adopting unwanted children out of foster homes and orphanages rather than giving in to the biological urge to have children of our own.
No matter how you look at it, abortion is ending a life. What manner of life, I couldn't say. Regardless, it seems to be a necessary action under certain circumstances.
Quote:
As long as the cord isn't cut I'm A-OK with it.
How are you going to propose we have a civilized discussion and then spit out this retarded garbage?
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: RedNucleus]
#5515874 - 04/14/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think the only logical explanation for abortion would be population control, being raped and not wanting the child, or being too poor to afford the child. Why else would you need an abortion? You've got future plans for yourself and a child would only complicate things? Well too damn bad. You can only say "oops" to so many things. I dont see "Oops, Ive created a life...Ill just destroy it" as being an acceptable oops. Its not like farting...
The world cant change for the better now, its gone too far down. We have too many people using too much and giving back nothing. Not only that but there's too many opinions on how things should be run and what needs to be done to fix it. So in the end population control is pointless..
Being raped and not wanting the child? If you raped a girl...you should be destroyed, not the child. I would say if I had to pick a reason for abortion being acceptable this would be it.
Being too poor to afford the child? Why didn't you think of that in the first place? Are you an idiot? Abortion is no answer for your irresponsibility. There is a cause and effect for everything. YOU did what YOU did and taking another life you created to save your own is inexcusable. Then you've got the debate: Well then what about the child? Is it to starve to death? Be sick its whole life? Why would you put a child through all that when you can just end it before it happens...you know, do it a favor?
There's too many sides with too many good points on each. I have no side, I'm just discussing the topic as requested.:)
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: jcdangerously]
#5515893 - 04/14/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Please refrain from calling my opinion retarded garbage. I have put a lot of thought into it.
The umbilical cord supplies oxygen to the fetus from the mother's circulatory system. Once the umbilical cord is cut, the baby must start using it's own lungs for respiration. It is at this time that I consider the child an individual organism, rather than an organism on developmental life support.
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Namaste
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


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I feel that it is irresponsible to allow a child to live if the resources for raising the person to adulthood are not in the parents' possesion.
Yes, I think that many people in the world are, in fact, idiots. I do not say this to be contemptful. I do not think that many people in the world have the self control, education, or intelligence to avoid unwanted pregnancy. Therefore, I support ending the unwanted pregnancy before a child comes into a world and gets neglected or abused.
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Namaste
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jcdangerously
I'll Cut You

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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: RedNucleus]
#5515914 - 04/14/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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What is it about the infant breathing on it's own that leads you to make this conclusion? Do you believe that it denotes self-sufficience, and therefore the cutoff point for abortion?
What we should be focusing on here is sentience and self-awareness. The child is clearly self aware by then, which would make the act nothing less than premeditated murder.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: RedNucleus]
#5515921 - 04/14/06 12:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Abortion is fetus killing(or in some cases, embryo killing), not baby killing. I think the crux of the issue lies in whether or not a fetus is a human being. If it is a human being, then it deserves all the rights of a human being, including the right to life. If it isn't, then we may dispose of it for the good of the mother. I'm actually still undecided on this issue.
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: jcdangerously]
#5515926 - 04/14/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I do not agree that we should be focusing on sentience and self awareness. I also do not agree that a newborn child is sentient. I think that it is more likely that lower instinctual brain functions are running the newborn child's behavior.
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Namaste
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: Silversoul]
#5515941 - 04/14/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe we are at a disagreement about the terminology we are using.
I believe that a zygote, embryo, fetus, and myself are all human beings. You do not. We should both agree on a terminology fast!
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Namaste
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: Silversoul]
#5516534 - 04/14/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: f it is a human being, then it deserves all the rights of a human being, including the right to life.
"The right to live" is not really a right, certainly not a natural right.
In nature, if a cat cannot support the amount of children it has given birth to, it will eat one of its babies. Seen it happen. The nutrition from eating the kitten will be dispersed to the other kittens, if it even keeps one, thus providing for more life.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5516565 - 04/14/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"your not a human being, until your in my phone book" - Bill Hicks
1) the issue comes down to a question of consciousness for many. Some people think that the nanosecond a sperm shakes hands with an egg there is consciousness, some take the bible literally and think the first breath is the breath of life, some people think the 49th day is when the soul enters the body. None of the thousands of theories can be combined to come to an agreement on the issue.
2) IMO, it doesnt matter if a fetus has already gotten past "I think , therefor I am", it has still yet to live. How can you take life away from something which has not truly lived? I just sent all of you million dollar checks, but then cancelled them... does that make you a millionaire?
3) babies die everyday, in the womb, 5 seconds out the womb, 8 months out the womb. Complications arising from known hazardous factors where the mother got pregnant anyway. The only thing that is ended in an abortion, is possibilities, and those could have either been great, or horrible. What do you think is more unethical: bringing a child into this world which you know you arent ready for, might have to put up for adoption, or grow up in the shittiest of conditions? or wishing to not carry the burden of shame and place it on an innocent?
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Diploid
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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: RedNucleus]
#5516779 - 04/14/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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There is a fuzzy line at which a blob of chemicals becomes a person. Exactly when that happens is different depending on who you ask and varies from case to case. This is why the decision to abort should rest with the woman and her physician, not with the law.
I think the more difficult question would be: is it better to end the misery of an unborn person who has crossed that fuzzy line or to let them come into the world to live a life alone and unwanted?
I try to consider most things functionally. Since we already have more people than we need, and since the child is far more likely to suffer in life than to prosper and be happy, ending its life before it is even aware enough to be afraid is the better choice.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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it stars saddam
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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#5516785 - 04/14/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: some people think the 49th day is when the soul enters the body.
I believe it.
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: Diploid]
#5516798 - 04/14/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"This is why the decision to abort should rest with the woman and her physician, not with the law."
Straight.
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moog
Stranger

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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: RedNucleus]
#5516799 - 04/14/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's killing something, but i wouldn't exactly call a fetus a baby. That's like calling a seed a tree.
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sever
Where am I?
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 161
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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: moog]
#5516852 - 04/14/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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~
Edited by sever (07/17/06 02:19 PM)
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: sever]
#5516872 - 04/14/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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America tries to act like it has a problem with death. It is afflicted with hypocrititis, much like a girl I was talking to once who was going on and on about how dolphins are killed in tuna nets, pretty whales in captivity and panda bears being killed towards extinction..... then let out a shriek and squashed a spider.
thousands of iraqi's - no sweat off our nuts thousands of american soldiers - (place patriotic sentiment here) hundreds of "criminals" put to death - fuck em lump of cells - jesus will destroy you!
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sever
Where am I?
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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: sever]
#5516882 - 04/14/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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~
Edited by sever (07/17/06 02:19 PM)
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Abortion: is it killing babies? [Re: sever]
#5516913 - 04/14/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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no, but there should be a limit to how many Baby's daddy's you can have. I know it would be devastating to the content of jerry Springeresque talk shows, but it could be a good step forward for all of humanity!
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