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Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Abortion
    #1196073 - 01/06/03 09:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

After that cloning incident hit the news, and then talk of banning cloning and stem cell reseach really got me thinking. Just think of all the benefits we can gain from it. Also, we can find another source of cells, if "killing" life is a concern to the public. After hearing both sides in my opinion I think stem cell research should be allowed.

So what if we kill a clump of cells that hasn't even developed a nervous system or other functions? If it can't support itself with out a womb, it's not really a life. Of coarse on the pro-life side one of the arguments is "what if the fetus is going to be a great person?". I'm pretty sure most great people weren't abandoned from their parents, living in a foster home, moving often. Unless one of you pro-life people are going to personally care for the child and make this person become great, then you really have no argument. One of the pro-choice arguments would be "what if the person turned bad?". I think there's a much higher chance the fetus would turn out to be a bad person due to many reasons. First there's foster homes. What if the woman was raped and didn't want to care for the child, and eventually abandon it in a trash can? I think the benefits outweight the risks. It's not we need anymore people on this small planet that is slowly dying.


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1196196 - 01/06/03 10:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I agree that if a life is to be lost(abortion,) it should at least be studied or used for a greater purpose. I don't think that the fetus would mind doing some good instead of what, being put in the disposal or somthing...


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_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website


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Anonymous

Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1196343 - 01/07/03 12:17 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I agree that the baby would not have the love and support it deserved if it was unwanted. I think a more important consideration than the possible life of the clump of cells is the life of the woman. She is already a fully developed person. She would lose 20 years of her life to the baby. Her time would be devoted to attending to an extremely dependent human being for the first 5 years of its life and to a very dependant kid thereafter. She may not have the financial stability or emotional maturity or even sanity to look after a kid or have a steady partner. Or the child may have been conceived from a rape. I think people who are pro-life for the fetus need to consider that the woman's life is important too.


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OfflineCrowHeart
No one

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 90
Loc: Cast?lo da Maia, Maia, Po...
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1196369 - 01/07/03 12:39 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think that the main question is freedom of choice, a woman deserves the right to choose whether or not she want's to have a child...


Of course that to think this way means that i do not consider a fetus to be a person, i believe that a persons is only a person when he/she is born...


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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,044
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 21 hours, 44 minutes
Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1196371 - 01/07/03 12:40 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm staunchly Pro-Life. I know all the arguments and I'm too tired to debate them here.

I think what the whole thing boils down to is people that don't believe we have souls don't see the harm in eliminating a "clump of cells" and people that know we have souls know it's murder and must never be allowed.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Abortion [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1196376 - 01/07/03 12:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Hey there, what about the womans soul? I see only spiritual oppression in having to live for 20 years doing something you don't want to do.


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: Abortion [Re: ]
    #1196489 - 01/07/03 02:59 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

pro choice


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,756
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Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1196521 - 01/07/03 03:26 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that aborted fetus' have souls, but that their souls one and only destiny was to be an aborted fetus.

The soul comes to earth, does it's job, and returns to heaven.



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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineCrowHeart
No one

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 90
Loc: Cast?lo da Maia, Maia, Po...
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Abortion [Re: Learyfan]
    #1196525 - 01/07/03 03:29 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Freedom of choice is a nice thing too...

By that order of thougt you wrote what you wrote because you were meant to right it...


Damn i was told to kill everyone I meet, i can't go to jail!!!


That's why i rather believe in freedom of choice...


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What the hell am I supposed to write here???


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,756
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Re: Abortion [Re: CrowHeart]
    #1196737 - 01/07/03 05:44 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom of choice is a nice thing too...

By that order of thougt you wrote what you wrote because you were meant to right it...


Damn i was told to kill everyone I meet, i can't go to jail!!!


That's why i rather believe in freedom of choice...




Wha?

If you're suggesting that i'm justifying abortion by saying that it was the soul's choice, which could also justify killing anyone, then you have a good point.

I just don't care about any person who hasn't made it out of the womb. We've got a lot of children already out of the womb who need help. Let's help them first and let the aborted fetus' hang out in the essence.



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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1197019 - 01/07/03 08:34 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

In the words of one Bill Hicks (more less correct) "Here's what we should do to solve this whole abortion issue: to all the women leaving their babies in garbage cans and alleys, instead leave them on the Supreme Court stairs. You made us have them, then you fucken raise em."


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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1197645 - 01/07/03 12:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Pro-Choice


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Abortion [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1197657 - 01/07/03 12:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Me 3. :smile:


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Edited by Adamist (01/07/03 12:55 PM)


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OfflineCrowHeart
No one

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 90
Loc: Cast?lo da Maia, Maia, Po...
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Abortion [Re: Learyfan]
    #1199850 - 01/08/03 08:33 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That's my point of view.

of course i'm assuming that fetus aren't "people". I may be wrong...


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InvisibleSpiffy
Defender of theGnomes

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Next to your mom
Re: Abortion [Re: daussaulit]
    #1202016 - 01/08/03 07:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, here is what I think...but hold on to your seats because it might be a bit confusing. I am pro-choice and pro-life...1) I believe that an abortion is acceptable up to 21 days after conception. After that point, it becomes a being with a soul and not just a fetus. But most people don't go by that...still, I don't feel that women who have abortions later in pregnancy are murdering a baby. Partially, I agree with Learyfan that a soul makes a concious choice where it will go. But also, I feel that there are two circumstances where abortion is acceptable. 1) when the child was concieved through rape & 2) if the child was concieved in the small percentile of birth control faliure (i.e. condom breaks, pill doesn't work despite proper use) Other than that, I feel that abortion is pretty fucked up. If you can't be responsible for your body, you shouldn't be having sex!it irks the HELL out of me when I hear girls talking about having unprotected sex and when they are asked "what if you get pregnant" they respond "I have options". No, no, no!!!! Abortion is there for women who need it but it is NOT a form of birth control. With all of the options available to women today (and birth control is incredibly affordable and sometimes even FREE) no one should be pregnant in a civilized country if they don't want to be. I have never met anyone in my life who responsibly used birth control and got pregnant. It happens...but it is VERY, VERY rare...and I believe abortion should be an option for those people. Sorry to get so heated but I can't stand slutty girls who use abortion as their safety net..thats just not cool!


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Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you,
there is only one of us."


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Abortion [Re: Spiffy]
    #1202030 - 01/08/03 08:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that an abortion is acceptable up to 21 days after conception. After that point, it becomes a being with a soul and not just a fetus.

How can you possibly know that???  Perhaps the soul begins at time 0, perhaps it doesn't begin until birth.  Perhaps there is no such thing as a soul.  Are you just making shit up, or do you have a basis for 21 days???  :confused: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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InvisibleSpiffy
Defender of theGnomes

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Next to your mom
Re: Abortion [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1202032 - 01/08/03 08:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

yes...the basis is that Pleadians have determined that to be the time that a spirit enters a body.


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Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you,
there is only one of us."


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Abortion [Re: Spiffy]
    #1202098 - 01/08/03 08:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Hmmm. I did a little research on Pleiadians. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. They are from a distant galaxy, and have chosen Barbara Marciniak as their messenger. Barbara has a website (www.pleiadians.com) where she doesn't bother posting any information about them. If you want to learn about Paleiadians from the messenger herself, you have to buy her books, audio tapes, a journal, and/or expensive vacations.

What makes her more believeable to you than, say, Benny Hinn???

Edit: Anyone who believes in Pleidians should respond to this question.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Edited by GoBlue! (01/08/03 08:55 PM)


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InvisibleSpiffy
Defender of theGnomes

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Next to your mom
Re: Abortion [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1202113 - 01/08/03 09:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I've never even heard of that person...an entire race of beings wouldn't pick just one person as their spokesperson, though. The Pleadians talk to many, many people about all types of things. They are a very peaceful race and they have quite an evolved society...they offer much help and advice to humans. If you want to learn about them, you should read "The Pleadian Mission" by Randolph Winters....Shroomism convinced me to read it a year or so ago and I am SOOOO glad I did. It really makes so much sense...and I was skeptic. That book really helped me to understand things much better.


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Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you,
there is only one of us."


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Abortion [Re: Spiffy]
    #1202137 - 01/08/03 09:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting. Randolph also has a website:
http://home.earthlink.net/~pleja/
No information there either. Just books, tapes, and cassettes for sale. Are there any Pleiadian messengers willing to share their knowledge for free???


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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