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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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do right wingers really support fascism?
#5401445 - 03/14/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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so im reading a bunch of reviews for the upcoming movie "V for Vendetta". the plot is basically a rebel guy striking back against a 1984 style fascist govt. all the reviews of the movie, looking at it as just a movie are positive. then u h ave the negative reviews all from right wingers bashing the movie for its political messages. now if its a movie against fascism why would these righties care? i know we call you guys fascists as kind of a joke, just like u call us commies. i dont really support comunism though, im not looking to wait on line for bred. do you righties really see fascism as a valid form of govt?? if so, thats really fucking scary. why are righties so offended at fascism bashing?? shit, didnt we fight a war against a fascist (wwII)?? lol, maybe in the warped minds of present day righties they would have suported hitler.
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Economist
in training


Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5401531 - 03/14/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dammit! I really want to see that movie, but it doesn't open here until Friday! And yet lucky kids on the internet are already posting complainant reviews...darn my luck.
Anyway, I would suspect the reviews have more to do with the present political climate than anything else. It's like those reviews that came out after Star Wars Episode III claiming that Emperor was clearly an extreme charicature of President Bush (using security and safety as an excuse for an unnecessary war). I didn't think that was the case, and I think it was a pretty silly notion (given that it had already been established that the empire was going to take over back during the original movies in the 1970s).
That said, as someone who doesn't hold what I would call "mainstream liberal values", it's very easy to believe that the media, and in particular Hollywood, is constantly assaulting your beliefs.
I happen to believe in the free market, and during the 1940s and 1950s, it wasn't unheard of to have movies where company presidents or executives were lauded as entrepreneurial heros (Executive Suite, 1954, or the Fountainhead, 1949). When was the last time you have seen Hollywood portray any for-profit venture as beneficial these days? Now the companies are all "evil empires" and executives are either mindless automatons or evil emperors.
Similarly, Hollywood is never going to portray someone with clearly conservative values as a hero, it's just not going to be done. A Hollywood hero saves the poor, the working man, the environment, and he does it by hitting out at the establishment.
As such, it's not hard for someone to feel that they are under assault even when they aren't. Movies that were genuinely made to tell a story, and not for an underlying political statement, are misconstrued in an individual's mind because the status quo is in such disagreement with his own personal beliefs.
It's similar to how middle east extremists believe that they are "under assault" by Britney Spears, except...well...not so...uh...extreme. When the dominant culture in the genre constantly speaks against against your beliefs, you begin to assume that the entirety of the genre must be against you, and interpret all of the genre's media accordingly.
Thus, I don't think it's really fair to say that "right wingers" today would support Hitler when they complain about V for Vendetta, they're just overreacting in response to larger trends in Hollywood.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy

Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5401968 - 03/15/06 01:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: Annapurna1]
#5402427 - 03/15/06 08:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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id like to hear from a rightie
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5404164 - 03/15/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The liberals are the real fascists liberal position- government is all fascist position- government is all Notice the similarity?
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5404241 - 03/15/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The liberals are the real fascists liberal position- government is all fascist position- government is all Notice the similarity?
A fascist was someone who came to your house in the middle of the night, bashed down your door, dragged your kids off into the night because your aunt was Jewish and that meant you were part of a liberal Zionist conspiracy...
How is that the same thing as wanting to grant women access to abortions if they want to and allowing homosexual couples to marry if they want to?
Or maybe its that taxing the wealthiest of our citizens a larger percent than the poorest of our citizens is commiting a "holocaust" against those unfortunate souls who will have to turn down the heat in the pools at their mountain homes to afford that tax hike! What victims of atrocity the rich are! How foolish we are to have a holocaust memorial when this is going on!
People are so ignorant of what life under hitler was like
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5404288 - 03/15/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The liberals are the real fascists liberal position- government is all fascist position- government is all Notice the similarity?
Where do you get your definition of "liberal"?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: trendal]
#5404297 - 03/15/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Probably the same place KOTT got his definition of "right wing".
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: Redstorm]
#5404319 - 03/15/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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touch
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: Redstorm]
#5404320 - 03/15/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Probably the same place KOTT got his definition of "right wing".
My thoughts exactly.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: Silversoul]
#5404331 - 03/15/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The language of politics has been bastardized so badly in the past couple hundred years that it is nearly impossible to link today's meaning of words with their classical meanings. See: liberalism, republicanism, etc.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: gluke bastid]
#5404451 - 03/15/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well that was almost coherent. The fact that Hitler was a socialist and Mussolini was a a fascist and you can't tell the difference speaks volumes.
Abortion- I think Roe v Wade was a brilliant and well thought piece of legislation
Homo weddings- I don't give a fuck what they do. I don't think the government should be involved in marriage of any kind except to supply judges in civil disputes stemming from their dissolution.
I'm more right wing than Republicans. Government go home. Mostly.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5404661 - 03/15/06 05:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
im not looking to wait on line for bred. do you righties really see fascism as a valid form of govt?? if so, thats really fucking scary. why are righties so offended at fascism bashing?? shit, didnt we fight a war against a fascist (wwII)?? lol, maybe in the warped minds of present day righties they would have suported hitler.
I think they do not like the whole terrorism as a means to an end theme. Does that make sense or am I just crazy?
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5404677 - 03/15/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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fascism is one of many different flavors of collectivism. some are considered 'left' , some 'right'. fascism, for whatever reason, is considered 'right'. i think that most of us here agree that the left/right political spectrum is bogus.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5405429 - 03/15/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5408580 - 03/16/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Well that was almost coherent. The fact that Hitler was a socialist and Mussolini was a a fascist and you can't tell the difference speaks volumes.
What speaks more volumes is that you are comfortable labelling Hitler a socialist. You shouldn't blow the history whistle on me when it is clear that all you know about fascism is patched together from shoddy memories of that modern european history class you took however many years ago.
Hitler was not a socialist. The misconception that exists in your mind probably stems from the fact that the Nazis were called the National Socialist Party. The only thing socialist about Hitler was that he created a large number of government sponsored work programs to get his economy going again. Yes, the third Reich officially was an opposition to the model of a more or less free capitalist state under democracy. They instead wholeheartedly believed in the state control of almost every aspect of life. But business boomed under the third reich and the battle against class inequalities was never an issue. The real issue was might making right, and the ever present battle against those who would seek to weaken the German state with marxism, intellectualism, judaism, or anything else that didn't fit into the master plan.
Beyond that, Hitler took every facet of fascism farther than Mussolini (who started the movement) did. He held absolute power over the entire country after declaring himself supreme ruler...not an aspect of socialism. He declared the German people the master race meant to rule the entire world, whereas socialism seeks to unite all people of the world in ideology regardless of ethnicity. He declared war on the Soviet Union, and let's net forget when Hitler set fire to the Reichstag so he could blame the communists and have all the party leaders arrested. Let's also not forget the pogroms, holocaust, and attempt to take over the world.
The third Reich was all about fascism. They were about an absolutist, Militaristic state with one fuhrer working behind a Nationalistic, aggressive image of world domination and obliteration of the enemy: democracy, communism, judaism and people of color.
You seem very label-happy, zappa. It doesn't matter what Hitler called himself. He was a fascist by any historian's definition.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5410449 - 03/16/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think those who fall in line with the neo-conservatives are close to fascism, but those rightwing libertarians and real conservatives (barry goldwater types) are not fascists at all.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: Vvellum]
#5412108 - 03/17/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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neocons resemble butter and cheese, i'nt dat right francis?
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: gluke bastid]
#5414987 - 03/18/06 01:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
He held absolute power over the entire country after declaring himself supreme ruler...not an aspect of socialism.
What? Socialism requires consolidation of power and dictatorship. It amazes me that in this day and age people still think socialism is just something that can happen when everyone is nice to each other. Capitalism is what happens when people are given freedom. Socialism needs to be dictated by a ruling power.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: do right wingers really support fascism? [Re: Catalysis]
#5415121 - 03/18/06 03:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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What? Socialism requires consolidation of power and dictatorship
Come again?
Harold Wilson was a dictator? 
Capitalism is what happens when people are given freedom
But not the freedom to breath clean air if it inteferes with profits.
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