lysergicide said:

I think that people should be fed both sides of the story, and not only one side. If you feed them only one side, they expect it to be true.

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Grav said:

It's frickin science class. It's a forum for facts. I know evolution hasn't (and really can't) be proven, but it is a sound theory based off factual data. Intelligent Design is not. End of story. Why should facts and logic be compromised in "fairness to the other side". What the hell sense does that make?

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Quote:

It really has no room to be in the classroom.

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shroomydan said:

God designs all life on earth through a process of evolution.

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Veritas said:

"God designed me
this I know
for the Bible tells me so!"

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Its one thing to assert that you have designed another, its another thing altogether to express exactly how one has designed another.

Which is exactly why evolution is a reasonable, tested theory as to how we were "designed", and creationism is not. If God really wanted us to believe his allegation, he would bring forth some righteous substantiation.

By the way, I got into an arguement about this last night with a friend on MSN. Partial transcript:


He says:
on a side note
He says:
science is bullshit
He says:
and if evolution existed, ppl wouldnt need glasses or hearing aids, we'd all be telepathic and would never get sick
? I says:
that doesn't make sense
He says:
birth defects wouldnt exist either
? I says:
you mean, if creationism existed
? I says:
'cause god would hook us up with perfection
? I says:
how would the existance of evolution define that we would be free of "defects"?
He says:
how would it not?
He says:
obviously if were evoloving
? I says:
no aspect of the theory of evolution says that we necessarily would?
He says:
then everything would be fixed
He says:
and if we have existed for hundreds of thousands or millions of years
He says:
by now, we would be perfect
He says:
evolution is just as much bullshit as science is in general
? I says:
evolution doesn't have a goal or destination, it isn't out to make anything anything, its the natural result of interaction of species and their genetics
He says:
its trying to understand something that was never meant to be understood
He says:
and trying to theorize on it just digs you a deeper hole
? I says:
and who defines that evolution has to complete some task within a certain amount of time, in order to be validated?
He says:
no one, because it doesnt exist
? I says:
its been tested
? I says:
hehehehe
He says:
right
He says:
and since we evolved from monkeys
He says:
then you have the missing link available for testing
He says:
so obviously, you can tell me what happened in between
He says:
or maybe you could tell me
He says:
taht there is a reason
He says:
why there is a missing link
He says:
because
He says:
obviously
He says:
we evolved
? I says:
it would make sense that we wouldn't necessarily have evidence of every step along the way, considering the nature of fossilization and how rare it is for them to be formed, for one thing
? I says:
slow down, for another thing, we'd have to focus on specific points in order to make any headway
He says:
alright, now your arguing without evidence
? I says:
in what regard?
He says:
its more cut and dry than you make it out to be
He says:
"considering the nature of fossilization it would make sense we dont have evidence of every step along the way" (Note: Yeah, fucking right, I'm the one arguing without evidence! )
? I says:
every single animal/human along the way is a link, as long as they have passed on their genetic code to successive generations
? I says:
evolution is change over tiem
? I says:
*time
He says:
then explain the missing link
He says:
its there for a reason
? I says:
"the missing link"?
He says:
and no we didnt come from a bunch of ammino acids that sun light reflected off of creating single cell organisms that eventually became humans
He says:
thats bullshit
? I says:
how so?
He says:
our reality is too complex and perfect
? I says:
please, our reality is simply reality. it exists seperately from our definitions of what it is
? I says:
there is nothing about our situation that necessitates it being "too complex"
? I says:
as compared to what?
? I says:
why exactly could this have not happened?
? I says:
as far as evolution goes,
? I says:
does your personality change?
? I says:
do you take on new experiences, interacting with new variables, that changes you?
? I says:
THAT is the principle in question
? I says:
things change. hehehe
? I says:
in terms of genetic code, it has been tested
He says:
sure
He says:
im not going to argue with you because your right ()... im telling you science is bullshit, ive seen things that are scientifically impossible happen
He says:
and yet you insist that there are no greater powers out there
? I says:
science doesn't state that anything is impossible
He says:
when its the devils minions that whisper in your ear
? I says:
science is simply our currently accepted framework
He says:
be not ignorant of his devices lest ye be deceived
He says:
and its all a bunch of crap
? I says:
why?
? I says:
because it can't do the impossible and define everything as it is for us right now?
He says:
no, because its trying to explain something that is unexplainable and offers theories that are lies/dont make any sense
? I says:
technology is the application of science, and considering the considerable changes in our technology from the times we fashioned weapons out of sticks, something must be working in terms of science. hehe
He says:
tell me I, how science would explain a light bulb that lights, with a completely broken filament, and no vacuum due the seal being broken
? I says:
"science" isn't trying to do anything, its simply an abstract consensus that uses a method to make observations, and to test those observations further.
? I says:
hehehe
He says:
or a demon sitting above my bed watching me sleep, and ill start listening to what science has to say
He says:
until it explains that, its bullshit
? I says:
i don't understand, for one, how the fact that a greatly benefical tool that we use is bullshit simply because it doesn't explain everything/doesn't apply to certain situations
He says:
we were created by god, not some light reflecting off of a pool just right splurging out single cell organisms
? I says:
and what substantiation does such a statement have?
He says:
and i dont think its a tool, it causes us humans to live in ways in which we werent, and destroy the gift of our environment which was given to us
? I says:
its one thing to not have an answer, and to remain open to possibillites
He says:
werent* supposed to*
? I says:
science doesn't destroy anything
? I says:
its the manner in which it is used
He says:
technology comes from science
He says:
and it does destroy
? I says:
if we are harming ourselves by the way we use it, then that is ours to blame
? I says:
one can't blame a gun for murder
He says:
because the humans in power are evil, thats the way its always been
? I says:
"guns don't kill people, people do"
He says:
because the humans in power are evil, thast the way its always been
He says:
all throughout history
? I says:
and what is evil?
He says:
the fact that you dont know that
He says:
makes you compeletely blind
? I says:
blind to what?
He says:
I
? I says:
its a question
? I says:
what defines evil?
? I says:
what definition are you using?
He says:
you fool
? I says:
its necessary to be clear so that we are on the same ground, so that we can understand.
He says:
its your soul
He says:
i can only hope you would save yourself
? I says:
and what is my soul?
He says:
you choose to be stubborn
He says:
and you think
He says:
that you are your own god
? I says:
i don't choose to be stubborn
He says:
and it will be your own undoing
? I says:
i choose to seek
He says:
then you seek to be blind
He says:
im going to take a shower
He says:
peace
? I says:
have a good one, man






I can't wait until the next time I talk to him, and I share with him that passage of the Bible that explains how Jesus was a horse thief....


Peace.