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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5628994 - 05/14/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: If you believe the Bible word for word, then you must believe in magic and witchcraft.
Is that better?
To some extend that is true, at least in the way you mean it, though those words are not used for powers of god in christian terminology, and humans don't have any kind of magic powers in the Bible. And magic is a relative thing, to a kid, playing tricks with coins is magic, and to a medieval man, electricity is pure magic. You DO believe in electricity, don't you? If you do, then you too believe in what is magic to someone.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5629011 - 05/14/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Damn evil electricians! 
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5629061 - 05/14/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: Damn evil electricians! 
Not all magic is evil, it's evil if you are afraid of it. I bet Joan of Arc would consider a photo camera evil because she would think your soul is trapped in some kind of Ektachrome hell.
Even if god did perform all those miracles, they are not deeds of magic by themselfs, but to man, who simply can't understand them. To this god, they would be his natural abilities, or maybe even technology, who knows.
In my dictionary, magic is a word for actions of unknown procedure.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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EquilibriuM
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5629072 - 05/14/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree, "magic is a word for actions of unknown procedure. " And I don't think it's evil, I was just joking... you know, witch hunt...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5629112 - 05/14/06 04:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: I agree, "magic is a word for actions of unknown procedure. " And I don't think it's evil, I was just joking... you know, witch hunt...
Of course I know you were joking, I was just using the oportunity to talk about why some people considered magic evil
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Silversoul
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: fivepointer]
#5631613 - 05/15/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not even going to dignify this post with a counterargument. All I'm going to say is
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: Silversoul]
#5631696 - 05/15/06 08:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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LOL!!!
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: fivepointer]
#5631722 - 05/15/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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" for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. [Exodus 20:4-5] "
Who in their right mind would want to worship such a being?
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: fivepointer]
#5631743 - 05/15/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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a religion is fucked as soon as you place "your" god or savior above all others.
I beleave that you may use Jesus as an image of what is "right" because he stoof for many good things. But to say he is the only one that was right is a bunch of bull shit.
I like this statement!
"When the light and love become one, you will know the way to heal hearts and ease pain. Go forth and spread my name. I am Jazu (Jesus). I come to you to ask you to help heal the world. Your Mother, the earth, is crying and she needs your help. Pray, pray often and ask the collective consciousness of the peoples of the world to heal her heart. She is dying and your prayer will help her heal. All will be revealed soon. I am the light, the way, hear what I say and pray now. Ask for forgiveness of the destruction of the world and heal her pain."
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: Sinbad]
#5631864 - 05/15/06 10:07 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: " for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. [Exodus 20:4-5] "
Who in their right mind would want to worship such a being?
Those who believe he is the only one in existance
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5633518 - 05/15/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Those who believe he is the only one in existance
Right, and the tribal, mountain god YHVH/Jehova later on was theologized into the ONE God of Hebrew monotheism, but originally, the Name Elohim was used, and Elohim has both masculine and feminine, as well as plurality in it. A pluralistic sense of the ONE God was inherent in this Name, but monotheistic religions manage to include a Polytheistic aspect anyway by way of hierarchies of celestial beings (seraphim, cherubim, thrones, powers, dominion/dominations, principalities, archangels, angels in the Christian tradition alone). Add to this God's Asherah - His Eternal Consort - Wisdom, and we have the paired Deity, who together make the ONE GOd, just as in His image "male and female created He them."
Of course, once again the heinous, misogynistic 'church fathers' did away with the egalitarian treatment of women as they returned to the purely patriarchal notion of Hebrew thought. The Ark of the Covenant had two Cherubim facing one another and Solomon's Temple was said to house 30 foot long versions of the same - when YHVH's Consort was acknowledged. The Trinitarian formula in Christian theology ought to be 'Father-Son-Holy Mother. The dove which came to symbolize the Holy Spirit (God is Holy and Spirit, so the Name HS is vague and detracting) was a symbol for the Heavenly Aphrodite or Venus - an aspect of love (not necessarily Eros, which is yet another personification of love and has nothing to do with the erotic. Plato's Eros is yearning for the 'Other,' for God as well as another human). The Eternal Feminine, the Great Goddess is as much a symbol of God as any masculine symbols like 'Father,' Son,' 'King.' The 'Old-Bearded-Guy-in-the-Sky' is but one biased anthropomorphization of THE "Ground of Being."
Humans attribute much to YHVH, to the Father, to Allah, but theologically speaking, the Transcendental Unmanifest is just that - Unmanifest. "Jealousy" is a personal attribute and clearly a human projection. As the mythic Semele was incinerated by Zeus in His 'true nature,' and like Moses placed in a cleft of rock so that he could only see God's "hind portion," we cannot Know God as God Knows God, because "no man can see the face of God and live." Does this mean that God has a literal face? No. No human ego can maintain its relative, impermanent form in the full Presence of the "Uncreated Energy" which is God. We humans can Know God in God's 'Lesser Countanence' which is Christ. We can enter into Christ and Christ can enter into us. We can crucify our egos so that only Christ remains of us, and Christ can see God face-to-face. [Sorry for the ramble, it was unintended ]
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5633633 - 05/15/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, all of this stands if you think of god as some kind of etheral energy, the stuff that universes are made from.
You say humans always attribute things to god, well this couldn't be turer, in fact, your vision of god, like any other, is just another projection of your own logic and ideas into this word of God.
To you it is illogical that "god" can be in one place at one time, can be seen or can land in a Jewish temple in a cloud. But that is just one way of seeing it, clearly you believe it is the intelligent way of seeing it, but human intelligence and logic are really irrelevant when it comes to such concepts as god, because there are not premises to work with.
Consider that EVERY description of something higher by something lower is flawed, even yours. It is like trying to describe a 30 digit number with 3 digits.
It is nowhere really specified what god is in the Bible and similar books, but people seem to have hijacked the word and applied logic to it, to something that they don't even know what it is.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5633738 - 05/15/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I do not see how you could extrapolate what you said from my post! Nowhere did I profess a belief in, or posit something about God existing in a 'place.' Neither did I suggest any "vision of God." These are YOUR projections onto me ! I was quoting or paraphrasing Biblical or mythic material. I just got done writing that God, qua God cannot be Known by human egos, and you misunderstood everything I was saying!
The only thing that I did by my unintentional ramble was to express a method for Knowing God - Gnostic Christian fashion. That method is by becoming Christ - a process called theosis in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Then, as the human ego diminishes (is 'crucified'), the center of human awareness shifts from ego to Divine Self (Christ). As Paul put it "I live, yet not I; Christ liveth in me." Then God Realizes God in the human being (the Biblical "clay vessel"). Like a Buddhist, we then Realize our inherent emptiness. Only the Real is Real. Any God that I could describe would be a construct, so what ARE you going on about?
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Which Jesus? The Catholic one or the real One? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5633868 - 05/15/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh, now you got me confused, nevermind
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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