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Bring Down the Wall
    #4880264 -

>> This is just a courtesy notice that your thread "Bring Down the Wall" has been deleted by Wiccan_Seeker.

>> Reason for deletion: No. The wall will stay up. Play by the rules ped. That was an offtopic post with a very curious message, especially considering I saw a post just like that on the other side.


"No."

"That wall will stay up."

"Play by the rules." In other words: don't talk about it.

All throughout the history of this "community", there has been tremendous dramatism, tremendous insecurity, and a constant degree of fighting. We have fought with each other, manipulated each other, dominated and disrespected each other. Our response to these problems has always been legislation, followed shortly and invariably with division. Let me emphasize that point again: consistently, the failing of legislation has brought about more and more divisiveness.

The forum list grows longer and more confusingly duplicitous, topics become less and less diverse, and on the whole the community suffers. We divide OTD into OTD & The Pub, and put up red-text warnings so that we might dismiss the complainers with "it says right there to expect what you do not like." We divide #shroomery into #shroomery and #cultivation, because people choose to fight about what conversations they'll have. Lastly, and least expectedly, we take spirituality and philosophy, a place where the subject matter should have been unsupportive of such small minded pettiness, and divide it in two. Why? Because people choose to fight about what conversations they'll have. Those posts too ethereal are met with hostility from those posters too rational, and those posts too rational are met with hostility from those posters too ethereal.

And through it all there is no effort to function as a community. First effort is legislation, which always fails because it is never enforced. Second effort is division, which fails to repair the community because by it's very nature divisiveness undermines community thinking. Why not make an effort at functioning as a community? Those people who complain without due cause, ignore them. Those threads that turn ugly, delete them. And stop there. There need not be any more discussions, polls, or debates. Our leaders need to agree on a standard to uphold for this community, and then they need to uphold it.

And that's just it, isn't it? What's really missing at the Shroomery is leadership. We may have moderators and administrators, but we do not have moderators or administrators that live up to the standard they wish for the community. Neither do we have moderators or administrators that reflect the community back unto itself. No, as a community, we are leaderless. Our leaders are not much more than managers who shuffle complaints and calm the Shroomery's chronic tendency toward self-hatred and self-destruction. They, as leaders, and we as community members, have been up to this point an enormous exercise in futility. Conflict and divisiveness run amuck because no one has stood up for a better Shroomery.

It's with this that I'd like announce my candidacy for Shroomery Forum President.

VOTE PED
Would you vote for Ped as Shroomery Forum President?
Users may choose only one (16 total votes)
Yes! A new day has dawned!
-
8 50%
No, I do not trust Ped's eccentric philanthropy.
-
8 50%
Votes accepted from 11/01/05 12:00 PM until 11/11/05 12:00 AM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4880300 -

Sorry man, I don't know you...so I voted no.

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4880325 -

Um Ped, I guess you didn't notice that S&P was put back together again. Do you see the header of this forum? It says Philosophy & Spirituality. The wars over and the people who wanted spirituality and philosophy together won it. You can drop your weapons and go home now.

Sorry, I voted no only because if you missed that event which happened at least a week ago, not sure what else Major you might miss as Pres. :wink:

You're not the only one. I see a handful of posts go up where people still think the spirituality forum is somewhere else. It is back with Philosophy again and has been for over a week.

You're post became mute based on something that no longer exists.;)


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4880353 -

Send me a sample of Canada's finest and I will back you 100%. That is the way politics works.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Swami]
    #4880368 -

Maple syrup??  You must eat a lot of pancakes, Swam.  :grin:

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4880537 -

While I am very much in agreement with your post (for much of it) I just don't trust people with religious affiliations. Sorry. :frown: :wink: Very good post though. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4880674 -



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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4882289 -

gettinjiggywithit,

The post was meant to carry a statement over the border on the back of a joke, but nonetheless this reunification information comes as rather embarassing. I hope nobody took my post too too seriously, especially some of the more inflammatory remarks. They're there for charisma's sake only.

What I still don't understand is this: we still have a forum described as "a place for people who don't want their ideas challenged." What this boils down to is, metaphorically speaking, "a play-pen for the childish complainers who can't tolerate the up-tight buffoons who take everything too seriously".

Beneath all the jibing in my post are two essential points. Why can't we all just get along? That's the first point And why can't those in charge simply uphold that standard? That's the second point. It's really a lot simpler than we've made it out to be with our elaborate rules listings and extensively long forum list. Although S&P rediscovered it's essential unity and became P&S, something about it just doesn't have the same ring to it. And on the subject of ringing, it seems that a problem with harmony remains pervasive throughout this community. As a community, we are too well established to be so fledgling.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4882316 -

Ped said:
I hope nobody took my post too too seriously, especially some of the more inflammatory remarks.


Na, your remarks were just swell....  :wink:


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4882322 -

This is a pretty disfunctional forum. Read any of a number of recent posts for proof.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4882434 -

Quote:
What this boils down to is, metaphorically speaking, "a play-pen for the childish complainers who can't tolerate the up-tight buffoons who take everything too seriously".



I think  comments like that are a prime example of some of the childishness some people wanted to move out and away from. They are also a prime example of showing the total lack of understanding of what some people who wanted an alternate forum, wanted it for.

Quote:
Although S&P rediscovered it's essential unity and became P&S, something about it just doesn't have the same ring to it.



You mean, the ring of bell in the fight forum?

You wonder why harmony is a problem at such an established community? Yes, others did to and asked for a harmonious forum where people who appreciate peace and harmony, sharing and caring, disscusion in areas of mutal positive interest and the constrution of ideas could share and discuss in harmony, withOUT debate conflict, disrespect,  childish remarks meant to offend  and the silly teenage machisomo "toughen up" game designed to let school yard bullies rule. :cool:

People who voted for it and posting in it with sincerity wanted harmony. Ask those who don't want a harmonious forum what their problem is and why they don't want to a place where others can get along peacefully.

S&P is back.  It's all here again. No one is stopping anyone from posting old S&P style. The shroomery also has a new forum for alternate topics with rules that require some more self control to post in because of their subjective nature.

BTW, If peace and harmony is so simple to achieve, why is so much of the world fighting and at war and in conflict with each other?

P.S. If you have a problem with the new forum, there is a sticky thread in it to discuss it. This forum isn't the place. :laugh:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4882508 -

P.S. If you have a problem with the new forum, there is a sticky thread in it to discuss it.

Not really. I cannot discuss it because I posted the work of a widely accepted spiritual author.

Of course, that had nothing to do with the REAL reason for my banishment.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Swami]
    #4882565 -

>> I think comments like that are a prime example of some of the childishness some people wanted to move out and away from.

Creating another forum to tuck away all those individuals who can't get along is not an advancement toward a harmonious community. It's quite the opposite; it's the full manifestation of a community's essential dysfunction. We did not gather together in a circle one day and agree through a healthy voting process to 'diversify' our community. The whole division came off the cusp of the arguments, knee-jerking and hostility surrounding Swami's ban. The bottom line is that two groups of people with their respective inclinations could not and simply would not respect each other, and, exhausted from their own bickering, they polarized. It's this which is childish. My comment is meant only to frame this childishness for what it is.


>> You wonder why harmony is a problem at such an established community? Yes, others did to and asked for a harmonious forum where people who appreciate peace and harmony, sharing and caring, disscusion in areas of mutal positive interest and the constrution of ideas could share and discuss in harmony, withOUT debate conflict, disrespect

Peace and harmony does not mean that everybody agress with everybody else and no one ever challenges anybody. The reason S&P could not function as a forum to trade ideas was that people were, and still are, far too attached to their own thinking. It's when people are attached to their own thinking that debate turns into battle, criticism turns into defamation, and harmony into the utter turmoil which preceded S&P's eventual split.


>> S&P is back. It's all here again. No one is stopping anyone from posting old S&P style. The shroomery also has a new forum for alternate topics with rules that require some more self control to post in because of their subjective nature.

This does not connect. S&P has not reunified, and it certainly has not healed the rifts that tore it apart in the first place. By virtue of the fact that we have yet another forum on the ever-growing list, with it's own set of rules intended to accomodate a very narrow scope of individuals, says that although the forum might once again contain both the words 'spirituality' and 'philosophy' in it's title, the same essential schism, as well as it's root cause, remain.


>> BTW, If peace and harmony is so simple to achieve, why is so much of the world fighting and at war and in conflict with each other?

Global civilization does not necessarily follow the same psychology as one of the internet's lesser known counter-culture discussion forums. Although some fundamental principles apply to each scope, suggesting that we can't easily achieve some level of functionality within this community because there is conflict all over the globe is a non-sequitur.

What I will say is this: both on the grand scale of worldwide society and the much smaller scale of our fledgling community, we cannot expect peace outside ourselves if we neglect to cultivate peace within ourselves. Within the context of this community and it's subject matter, we can cultivate peace within ourselves by striving to detach ourselves from our own ideas for the sake of maintaining openness of thought and discussion. From this inner effort, outer results will follow naturally.

However, we cannot expect each of the forum's members simply to follow this ideal. And that's why strength in leadership is necessary. By ignoring the complaints of those who don't meet this standard, and putting a halt to threads which fall short of this standard, leaders can create an environment not conducive to the sort of behavior that undermines this community, and simultaneously encourage an evironment supportive of free thought, debate, and productive exchange. This is a far, far better solution than continuously fragmenting and hopelessly legislating this community with polls, decisions, and carefully worded dictums.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4882642 -

I do think having a forum strictly for paranormal is a good idea. Not all paranormal ideas fall within the scope of philosophy or spiritualism. Take UFOs or telekinesis, for example, they have little connection to philosophy or spiritualism.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4882794 -

Yes! and then we don't have to look at them. :cheer:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4883503 -

You framed the childishness to the group that wants to get along with others in a harmonious environment. There are people who don't know how to do that and make sport of people with differing beleifs they have no respect for. That is childish.

Yes, cultivating peace within is what some people were doing and wanted a "resonant" environment of peace to be in with others who appreciate peace. Do monks live in a peaceful environment or do they hang out in places of hostility and conflict?

People who like to create debate conflict are not people in peace and they are not people who are comfortable in a place of peace and have to cause chaos and disruption to get into their comfort zone.

Members are allowed to disagree in the new forum. They can say, I disagree and share their view. The only difference is that their view, is not allowed to encompass, the bashing and flaming of the member they disagree with.

The only difference is that debate, to prove objective rights and wrongs, has no place in a forum with a purely subjective nature.

Some people, always understood that you can't prove something wrong when you can't even proove it exists. People moved in to debate that stuff anyway as if they could.

You say that "ohh everyone just needs to detach themselves from their beliefs."

Some peoples beleifs come from their experiences, experiences, that to stay in their truth, they can not deny.

For them to detach from their experiences with and in spirit through the rejection and denial of them would be putting themselves into a place of self delusion. That is not healthy.

What is that anyway saying people are not their beliefs? I am not my beleifs? I beleive I am a mom. Last I checked, I do have a daughter. I beleive I am someones wife. Last I checked, I am someones wife. I beleive I am a female. Last time I checked, I was.

How do I detach from those thing? I'd be in self denial, self rejection and a state of delusion if I did.

I beleive I am also spirit and a lot of other things through experience. Am I to reject and deny all of that to detach from it
and go into self delusion as well?

If I did both, I would end up in the delusion that I am nothing and nothing has nothing to talk about on a massage board. Nothing can't because nothing can't own a computer with internet access in the first place.

People say, "get real". Let's start getting real by admitting that we must be something if we can be typing words here. If it were up to the people that want to detach from the material, there would be no forum, users or discussion.

If I were to detach from beliefs that I am the user jiggy, I couldn't be typing here unless I was in delusion of not being jiggy.

Where did all of this accusing others of delusion stuff that ran rampant on the board come from anyway?

The people who believe in spirit are delusional because we can't prove it objectively exists. The people absorbed in and "attached" to the material are told they are in delusion of the truth of spirit beleiving the illusion of the material is real, by others who tell them they are not their material identities.

So everyone is in delusion in someones eyes. Everyone gets a cookie.

You're right, your ideals are unrealistic for the real world of the internet and don't hold up in play or practice or real discussion by real people who really mean and beleive what they say.

If I say something, I mean it. Why would I detach from something I said and meant? I might as well say and mean nothing if everyones posts are to be seen as being that hollow and shallow.

The only way for someone to be detached from what they beleive is
to not beleive in or mean a thing they type here.

Is that the sort of S&P board you want, one where people only post things they don't even believe in or mean so everyone can stay peacefully detached from what they post?

Some people wanted a forum where they can share and discuss what they truly beleive in and mean and have meaningful dialog with others. To be able to do that, a respect for beliefs and the subjective meaning of them is required for it to function without disfunction.

You have people here who say, "there is no meaning, and so the meaning people claim, I can call Bull on". And yes he can. He gets a cookie.

All the while, many people share in the same subjective meaning of many things and want to share the meaning of their lives with others, with whom, their lives have meaning to them as well.

If you can't underdtand that then lump yourself in with the handful of others who also can't understand, real meaningful conversations with people who beleive they really exist, who really beleive in and mean what they say.

You'd think it would be easy to understand, yet some are showing difficulty with it.

Another batch just came out of the oven. Who else needs a cookie?

Please forgive any typos. My spell check isn't working.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4883511 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
Do monks live in a peaceful environment or do they hang out in places of hostility and conflict?


Once you start setting yourself on fire in protest, us pesky atheists, skeptics, and rationalists will leave you alone.
(For a couple of days)

Edited by MushmanTheManic (11/02/05 12:03 PM)

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4883539 -

Irrational beliefs should be challenged! Regardless of peace and harmony.
Irrational beliefs causes people to release sarin gas in subways, blow up federal buildings, join Heavens Gate, become unabombers, ban stem cell research, etc
I haven't seen much good come out of believers, but I've seen them commit enough atrocities to know they should be challenged whenever possible.

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4883813 -

I haven't seen much good come out of believers, but I've seen them commit enough atrocities to know they should be challenged whenever possible.
Same for the rationalistic-utiltarian believers, you know.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Bring Down the Wall [Re: Ped]
    #4883824 -

It would help if you would post more.

But anyway...I don't see a problem with splitting up forums. At most forums splitting a forum is a bad idea, but this is the Shroomery and there are thousands of active posters, and it is one of the largest English speaking message boards in the internet I imagine.

The Pub and OTD have to be seperate. Totally different crowds in each forum and both seem to hate each other. That being said, there's alot of people that like philosophical debate, and there's alot of people who simply like discussing philosophy without scholarly and personal ridicule of their ideas. The divine neccessary, I think.

And the Shroomery is constantly evolving. It's quite different today then it was years ago, and is constantly growing larger and larger. For complete newbies to the Shroomery, getting hazed in OTD or having their ideas shot down by a Swami-soldier might be enough to scare someone away


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

Edited by Unagipie (11/02/05 01:55 PM)

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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