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InvisibletrendalM
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People who bring great change
    #3178970 - 09/25/04 03:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Why is it that most people who try to change things around them on anything over a personal level fail...while the biggest bringers of change usually stumble into while searching for something else?

Is change, at least on a large scale, something we are not all "free" to do?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179098 - 09/25/04 04:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I just realised today how many people are yet prisoners of their own minds and hearts. They are free and always have been. What it takes to realise that is probably something stumbled upon while searching for something else.

To answer your question, if your beleifs tell you that you are not free to change then, in accordance with manifesting laws, you might as well get comforttable in your self made prison.

Did you how terrified some inmates are to get out after they have been in the slammer for a long time? It's scary for them to come out and see how much the world has changed, down right overwhelming.

Relating this to peoples beliefs, I just wrote elsewhere that I wish to develop a better sensitivity and compassion for that fear in others.


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Anonymous

Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179341 - 09/25/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Because the nature of creative energy is spontaneous and chaotic. If you concentrate your efforts towards an end with a specific result in mind, 99% of the time the result won't be what you imagined.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179346 - 09/25/04 05:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Because,great change cannot be forced.It must be inspired.


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179521 - 09/25/04 06:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I am a fervent believer in change.



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OfflineViaggio
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179681 - 09/25/04 07:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I can't entirely agree with you there, trendal. It almost sounds defeatist. Most change occurs as a direct result of an intention to do so.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179699 - 09/25/04 07:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

partly I think its because we can't control the physical world. 

now that doesn't say that we can't do the same for our emotions.

I like to look at the best place to start.  my answer to that would be to control the emotional world, and that in itself could bring change to the physical world.

:grin:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: Viaggio]
    #3179701 - 09/25/04 07:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Some does, yes, but I definitely wouldn't say most. I don't think this is a defeatist attitude, more of an acceptance that things happen for a reason and that reason may not always be human-will :wink:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179828 - 09/25/04 07:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

wow, hehe i just made a post on what could be the reason :P
but in short on what i posted..
"people who try to change things around them,are trying, not changin... !"
just a thought


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: Gomp]
    #3179846 - 09/25/04 07:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"people who try to change things around them,are trying, not changin... !"

thank you!


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OfflineGomp
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3179905 - 09/25/04 08:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

hehe, thank you!!


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3180192 - 09/25/04 09:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Things change whether or not there is intention. But when there is intention, change is more likely (i.e. technology, society, etc).


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: Viaggio]
    #3180223 - 09/25/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

But when there is intention, change is more likely (i.e. technology, society, etc).

But that's just the thing! Most great steps in technology come almost by accident. The industrial revolution began not when the first steam engine was created...it was only after a janitor was asked to repair a small model steam engine, and happened to have an idea of how to make it really work, that things got rolling. Fleming only discovered penicillin when he didn't properly sterilize his bacterial cultures. The history of technological advancement is mostly a disjointed story of accidents :smirk:

Intention seems to work towards linear advancement, yet most of the true leaps and bounds come from accidental discoveries or even mistakes.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3180257 - 09/25/04 09:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Intention seems to work towards linear advancement, yet most of the true leaps and bounds come from accidental discoveries or even mistakes.

It could be that only that which is beyond the mind is where true creativity, intelligence, wisdom and stillness is found, and hence is usually not found when people are using their minds too much, thinking too much.. so those who were not muddled up in thinking and in their mind in such manners are the ones who "accidentally" discovered such and such..



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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3180695 - 09/25/04 11:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Intention seems to work towards linear advancement, yet most of the true leaps and bounds come from accidental discoveries or even mistakes.




We've got thinking pretty much covered. Its just our theories that suck :grin:

Not-so famous examples:
LIBRIUM - the benzodiazepines (minor tranquilizers) were "invented" when chemists botched the reaction to make Chemical A and ended up with freakish product B. Unaware of this they discovered it had great sedative powers, to later find out they made a fully freaky compound that shot their theory to hell but ushered in the Benzo era which finally rid us of those nasty barbiturates.

CHLORPROMAZINE - the whole class of antipsychotic drugs was invented as an unanticipated effect. They were trying to make a new anti-allergy medicine and ended up with Promethazine (currently in some cough syrups. This made people so drowsy they moved the dimethylamine to the gamma-position. Lo and behold! A sedative.
"Chlorinate the fucker!" this post-WW1 chemist's answer to problems was applied, and lo and behold:

a sedative was born, Chlorpromazine aka. Thorazine that did the unspeakable: some completely imploded schizophrenics actually left the chronic ward and picked up normal lifestyles. It was an unbelievable sensation to see a formerly dooming illness being so swiftly alleviated or even "cured" by this drug. The effect, called "neuroleptic" or "antipsychotic" was exploited and turned out to be seperate from most of the sedation and in most countries its now an artifact of medical history.
Exploitation of the molecule also created the -tricyclic ANTIDEPRESSANTS- which made treatment of mental depression possible as a consequence of that one variation on the hay fever theme!

LSD - The good Dr Hoffman wanted to synthesize a molecule to ease breathing. So he looked at Nikethamine (nicotinic acid diethylamide) and in a historic move attached it to his newfound d-lysergic acid, forming Lysergide aka LSD-25.
It was uninteresting stuff so he shelved the whole project.
Then years later, for no good reason at all, he re-synthesized the compound. And unbelievably the great chemist spilled a tiny bit nto himself and because it was so freakishly potent he started to trip, being an unwilling but pleasantly surprised human guinea pig.


There you have it: the four major pharmacological revolutions that rocked the 20th century.

-Benzodiazepines: the first true and good anti-anxiety meds.
-Neuroleptics: psychosis no longer condemned people to the chronic ward of the mental hospital
-Antidepressants: the scourge of depression, finally treatable in most patients.
-Psychedelics: Mescaline was known long before, but LSD made the psychedelic revolution happen which greatly fortified the social freedoms and civil rights revolutions of the time.
In the early days of Silicon Valley LSD was pretty standard equipment, strictly off the record ofcourse. So in a way the Computer Revolution started out as a psychedelic baby too :eek:


What we need is those outlandishly sloppy scientists of old! I say do away with some permits systems and let the toolshed Edisons of today at our current problems!

I seriously believe that deliberately doing things that have never been done before and defy existing logic and dogma should be sought out and explored. Example: 99% of pharms are aromatics. Now aromatics are but half of Organic chemistry, the other being aliphatic comnpounds. How about a lil venture into those areas?

Systematically seeking out outlandish experiments that are far removed from conventional thought ought to be a branch of the science tree. Logic can take you along the path of your existing assumptions. And science showed time and time again we need brand new assumptions! If the herd of sheep keeps on the path they're on they will never find the other path leading to the greener pastures.
We need that lost sheep that returns with wild tales of another path! We all woul'd've been lost without our stray sheep :thumbup:


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3180784 - 09/25/04 11:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I see what you mean...it's as if these advancements were sitting, waiting to be found.  So are people bringing great change?  Or are they merely vessels in which discoveries decide to travel through?

BTW, I've been pounding the bong :smile:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3180901 - 09/26/04 12:13 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Intention seems to work towards linear advancement, yet most of the true leaps and bounds come from accidental discoveries or even mistakes.

It could be that only that which is beyond the mind is where true creativity, intelligence, wisdom and stillness is found, and hence is usually not found when people are using their minds too much, thinking too much.. so those who were not muddled up in thinking and in their mind in such manners are the ones who "accidentally" discovered such and such..

I would like to expand on this by what I've read in the material demonstrated by in some researches of a psychologist by the name of Anne Roe, who finds it in group after group of well-known people -- of capable, fruitful, functional, famous people. For instance, in one research she studied all the starred biologists in the American Men of Science. In another research she was able to study every paleontologist in the country. She was able to demonstrate a very peculiar paradox that we'll have to deal with, namely, to that certain degree, many good scientists are what the psychopathologist or the therapist would call rather rigid people, rather constricted people, people who are afraid of their unconscious, in the sense that I have mentioned. And you may then come to the conclusion that I've come to. Science can be defined, if you want to, as a technique whereby uncreative people can create and discover, by working along with alot of other people, by standing upon the shoulders of people who have come before them, by being cautious and careful and so on. Now, that I'll call secondary creativeness.
I think, however, that I can lay bare the primary creativeness which comes out of the unconscious and which I have found in the specially creative people that I've personally known and others as well. This primary creativeness is very probably a heritage of every human being. It is a common and universal kind of thing. Certainly it is found in all healthy children. It is the kind of creativeness that any healthy child had and which is then lost by most people as they grow up. It is universal in another sense, that if you dig in a psychotherapeutic way, i.e., if you dig into the unconscious layers of the person, you find it there. I shall give you only one example that you have probably all experienced yourselves. You know that in our dreams, we can be an awful lot more creative than we are in waking life. We can be more clever, and wittier, and bolder, and more original, and so on and so on. With the lid taken off, we find generally more creativeness than appears to the naked eye. Abraham Maslow involved himself in this study and predicated that the unviersal conclusion of psychoanalysts, and I am sure of all other psychotherapists as well, is that psychotherapy, or getting down to these deeper layers which are ordinarily repressed, will release a common heritage -- something that we all have had -- and that was lost and or obscured by the mind/ego...and so on.



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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3181647 - 09/26/04 03:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

If we as humans have come thus far in time... wouldnt you think with all that we have discovered, that maybe a time should come when we wouldnt be limited by our numbers, that eventually we would learn... and push our race to the point where we might be able to internally change ourselves... which would in turn effect the outer world so that it too would change?

Maybe this fits into your idea of being an "accident", but is it really an accident? Or is it just a disguise for what you cant explain?


Edited by Zero7a1 (09/26/04 01:30 PM)


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Offlinedeff
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3182268 - 09/26/04 01:15 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Intent often appears needed for desired change. Change itself however is only an observation of differing moments within the flow of the dimension of time. Change is everywhere, whether or not we observe it.


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OfflineStinky
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Re: People who bring great change [Re: trendal]
    #3184319 - 09/27/04 12:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Sometimes people do stumble upon things that will change mankind. However, there are plenty of hard-fought and intentional changes in society...for example, I don't think Martin Luther King happened to just luck into being a jumpstart for black civil rights.


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