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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife
#3023049 - 08/19/04 11:27 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Without all these problems in our world, we would have nothing to struggle against. We would put forth no effort. In essence, we would be meaningless. We would be automated nothings floating about a river. But we are given obstacles, and with these obstacles, we are given a chance to define ourselves. We can put forth the effort, and how we do so, against what, for what, that is what we become. That's what seperates me from this computer I'm sitting at.
My ex-girlfriend is talking about getting her shit together. But she wants it to just happen without making an effort. So, in her despair, she was going to take belladonnas. I flipped out. Here she is saying she wants to get her shit together, and literally five minutes later is going to take belladonnas. Her friend suggested it, and thinks she is just going along to have fun. But I know this girl wants to die, or to just get fucked up to escape, so that she needs to put forth no effort.
Put forth some fucking effort girl. Step the line, change the momentum of things, of yourself. You are the center of your own universe. Everything will begin and end with you. If something needs to change, it won't change until you wake up, snap out your own deterioration, and make something of yourself.
She ended up not doing the belladonnas (only getting real drunk, still pretty stupid). She says it's because not everybody else was going to do them. That's when I laid down my little speech for her. I think she heard, and I think she listened, but whatever.
-------------------- /opinion .sean
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3023068 - 08/19/04 11:30 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I hope you die of starvation or some nasty disease.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3023086 - 08/19/04 11:34 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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If I were an english teacher I would say that your paper seems to be about two different things. You need to focus on one idea. I know you can do better.
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deafpanda
Stranger
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3023102 - 08/19/04 11:38 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Heeeeee!
Famine and war are just examples of "bad things". Everything is either beneficial or not beneficial, and there can't be one without the other. I think our purpose could be described as learning to handle the bad (part of which is accepting death). Without bad things the world would be nothing like we know it. Bad things are necessary for consciousness to exist, I think, because where there is consciousness there is something to label things as "good" and "bad" (beneficial and detrimental). All actions can be seen in relation to us to be either.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3023111 - 08/19/04 11:39 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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You said "with these obstacles, we are given a chance to define ourselves."
Ever consider that we also get the choice to expand upon ourselves? It's a two way street and as nature contracts and expands so do we and CAN we.
I liked the general idea of your post. I just the benefit of the worlds problems as being an opportunity to grow into oneness with it not to define ourselves a part from it.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: question_for_joo]
#3023324 - 08/19/04 12:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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lol, I get what your saying about the two topics. I was considering making two posts, or replying to myself, but eh...
As for me dieing of starvation... I wonder why you got so pissed. I figured somebody would. Of course it's easy for me to see shit the way I do, living in America, not having really known much strife. I appreciate the fact that I'm not starving, or dieing of some nasty disease. Whenever I think of people in less fortunate situations, I've got to think of how lucky I am.
Don't go and think I'm not grateful for what I've been given. It's what you do with what you've been given that counts, and all I want is to make peoples' lives better, while enjoying mine.
-------------------- /opinion .sean
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3023379 - 08/19/04 12:25 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
entiformatie said: and all I want is to make peoples' lives better, while enjoying mine.
Through famine, war, conflict, and strife?
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: psyka]
#3023405 - 08/19/04 12:30 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well without those things the world would become very overpopulated and without massive programs of euthanasia and sterilization the world would become quite unbearable. There is a reason why its in the world.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3023477 - 08/19/04 12:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fuck your philosophical babble. Come to me and say you're glad there's famine and war when YOU'RE starving and you're seeing your families heads being blown off.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3023531 - 08/19/04 12:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pixie, You made me think of how I felt to something my dad said. I was stupidly asking HIS thoughts about stem cell research. He is against it like Bush, not for moral reasons but because he beleives in survival of the fittest and feels that if you take people with genetic defects who nature would weed out, and make them healthy enough to reproduce more humans with genetic defects you weaken the pool. In a really warped way, he had a point. Non the less warped IMO. I'm all for stem cell research! Who is to say that a part of being the fittest to survive is having the intelligence to use the benefits of stem cell research? I don't know, this probably should be a new post. My dad would get a lot great with a lot of people here!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/19/04 12:56 PM)
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3023746 - 08/19/04 01:48 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said: Well without those things the world would become very overpopulated and without massive programs of euthanasia and sterilization the world would become quite unbearable. There is a reason why its in the world.
Overpopulation is fairly recent. In fact, I'm fairly certain its a byproduct of war, famine, conflict, and strife. The reason why China is so overpopulated is because the government took a defense measure against the war on communism and encouraged the Chinese to birth as many children as possible. More people = more soldiers...overpopulation is unnatural. 100,000 people, again i'll state is a nice good round number So now tell me again...what is the reason for "war, famine, conflict, and strife" ?
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.
Edited by psyka (08/19/04 01:50 PM)
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: psyka]
#3023758 - 08/19/04 01:50 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree, overpopulation is a result of poverty
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Posts: 5,381
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Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: psyka]
#3024265 - 08/19/04 03:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyka said:
Quote:
d33p said: Well without those things the world would become very overpopulated and without massive programs of euthanasia and sterilization the world would become quite unbearable. There is a reason why its in the world.
Overpopulation is fairly recent. In fact, I'm fairly certain its a byproduct of war, famine, conflict, and strife. The reason why China is so overpopulated is because the government took a defense measure against the war on communism and encouraged the Chinese to birth as many children as possible. More people = more soldiers...overpopulation is unnatural.
100,000 people, again i'll state is a nice good round number
So now tell me again...what is the reason for "war, famine, conflict, and strife" ?
War, famine, conflict, and strife were around before man dominated earth so umm i don't agree with you. The cycle of overpopulation then famine, then death, and then repopulation can be found in all places of the globe. It is natural.
And i agree pixie, poverty is a contributing factor to human overpopulation. When you're poor and life sucks, all you can do is fuck.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024292 - 08/19/04 03:51 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rogue_pixie said: Fuck your philosophical babble. Come to me and say you're glad there's famine and war when YOU'RE starving and you're seeing your families heads being blown off.
I've starved and i've seen heads blown off(not my family's though) and i still support my "babble". Is that good enough?
And i never said i was "glad" whatever that word means to you anyway.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3024320 - 08/19/04 03:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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there will always be something to fight against. Without that, there would be no discernable life. Im glad I exist, nothing more, and much of the time i'm nuetral about that.
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Mad_Buhdda_Abuser
member
Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 129
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3024333 - 08/19/04 03:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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You have no right to say this, you have never been affected by it deriectly to know wtf you are talking about, arrite homey? You live in heaven compared to some starved war torn places and your saying you are glad it is there, FUCK you , you sadistic PUP.
PEACE and Love
MBA
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Mad_Buhdda_Abuser]
#3024337 - 08/19/04 03:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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he has a "right" to believe and say what he wants.
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3024445 - 08/19/04 04:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morrowind said: he has a "right" to believe and say what he wants.
Doesn't stop him from being an evil cunt.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3024446 - 08/19/04 04:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said: War, famine, conflict, and strife were around before man dominated earth so umm i don't agree with you. The cycle of overpopulation then famine, then death, and then repopulation can be found in all places of the globe. It is natural.
Ok...whats the point of war? Also, we have the technology to stop famine. BTW, overpopulation is directly linked to militarism. This message cant be expressed in words, because all of the intelligent minds around the world have been trying to relay it to people but it just doesnt sink in. Thats ok though, because when war marches itself to your front door people will realize how precious human life is and is not to be wasted on some silly rich mans notion of war.
And you're wrong, war was invented. No other animal on the planet commits war. And most species' in large groups try to help their starving brethren.
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3024448 - 08/19/04 04:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said:
Quote:
rogue_pixie said: Fuck your philosophical babble. Come to me and say you're glad there's famine and war when YOU'RE starving and you're seeing your families heads being blown off.
I've starved and i've seen heads blown off(not my family's though) and i still support my "babble". Is that good enough?
And i never said i was "glad" whatever that word means to you anyway.
Your experiences have clearly had some seriously harmful effects on you then.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024449 - 08/19/04 04:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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why is it evil? I see no direct sign of "evil" - and it just seems like he's glad theres something to distract him from having to deal with reality at its most basic level.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024454 - 08/19/04 04:21 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rogue_pixie said:
Quote:
Morrowind said: he has a "right" to believe and say what he wants.
Doesn't stop him from being an evil cunt.
Stop being blinded by your emotions. This is the kind of thinking which some people stereotype women as having proving they are unfit for positions of power.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3024459 - 08/19/04 04:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you agree with the "I'm glad we have famine, war and strife" statement...then no, dear, it's not evil in the slightest.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024470 - 08/19/04 04:25 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't agree. But I will not be swayed by someone's personal thoughts into an emotional backlash, besides which, I don't see him supporting war, famine and strife. I do see him thankful for their existence. I am thankful that everything exists. Does that mean I like everything? No.
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3024475 - 08/19/04 04:26 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said:
Quote:
rogue_pixie said:
Quote:
Morrowind said: he has a "right" to believe and say what he wants.
Doesn't stop him from being an evil cunt.
Stop being blinded by your emotions. This is the kind of thinking which some people stereotype women as having proving they are unfit for positions of power.
The lack of emotion this world shows is the problem.
You know what this world desperatley needs?
A bit of fucking COMPASSION, you know, instead of people buying into all this "intellectualised" political bullshit that gets us no where.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3024482 - 08/19/04 04:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morrowind said: I don't agree. But I will not be swayed by someone's personal thoughts into an emotional backlash, besides which, I don't see him supporting war, famine and strife. I do see him thankful for their existence. I am thankful that everything exists. Does that mean I like everything? No.
And I was pointing out that I doubt very much he would be as thankful if he was a victim of these horrors.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: psyka]
#3024502 - 08/19/04 04:35 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyka said: Ok...whats the point of war? Also, we have the technology to stop famine. BTW, overpopulation is directly linked to militarism. This message cant be expressed in words, because all of the intelligent minds around the world have been trying to relay it to people but it just doesnt sink in. Thats ok though, because when war marches itself to your front door people will realize how precious human life is and is not to be wasted on some silly rich mans notion of war.
And you're wrong, war was invented. No other animal on the planet commits war. And most species' in large groups try to help their starving brethren.
Sadly your argument is the same as "we have the technology for world peace so why dont we all just start world peace." It is not gonna happen so just forget about it.
The wild is ruled by natural selection, most animals do not help each other outside of family ties. And animals do not really have the mental capacity to launch a war so that is probably why man claims that invention.
And i'll let you in on a little hint: Human life is not precious, it is surprisingly quite cheap. Sad but true.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024508 - 08/19/04 04:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rogue_pixie said:
Quote:
Morrowind said: I don't agree. But I will not be swayed by someone's personal thoughts into an emotional backlash, besides which, I don't see him supporting war, famine and strife. I do see him thankful for their existence. I am thankful that everything exists. Does that mean I like everything? No.
And I was pointing out that I doubt very much he would be as thankful if he was a victim of these horrors.
I understand how the world works and more importantly that those feelings you're having are just chemicals and electrical impuslses firing in your brain, nothing more. So yea in a sense i would still be thankful. Thankful that i was borne into the world, which is a gift in itself.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3024510 - 08/19/04 04:41 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said:
Quote:
psyka said: Ok...whats the point of war? Also, we have the technology to stop famine. BTW, overpopulation is directly linked to militarism. This message cant be expressed in words, because all of the intelligent minds around the world have been trying to relay it to people but it just doesnt sink in. Thats ok though, because when war marches itself to your front door people will realize how precious human life is and is not to be wasted on some silly rich mans notion of war.
And you're wrong, war was invented. No other animal on the planet commits war. And most species' in large groups try to help their starving brethren.
Sadly your argument is the same as "we have the technology for world peace so why dont we all just start world peace." It is not gonna happen so just forget about it.
The wild is ruled by natural selection, most animals do not help each other outside of family ties. And animals do not really have the mental capacity to launch a war so that is probably why man claims that invention.
And i'll let you in on a little hint: Human life is not precious, it is surprisingly quite cheap. Sad but true.
Having technology means it is even more unlikely we will ever achieve world peace. Even if every country were to "agree" to disarm all their nuclear weapons today, countries wouldn't trust each other now that the knowledge exists. You can't undo technology, sadly. The best way would be for the whole world to unite, as oppose to dividing ourselves off into countries.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3024519 - 08/19/04 04:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said:
Quote:
rogue_pixie said:
Quote:
Morrowind said: I don't agree. But I will not be swayed by someone's personal thoughts into an emotional backlash, besides which, I don't see him supporting war, famine and strife. I do see him thankful for their existence. I am thankful that everything exists. Does that mean I like everything? No.
And I was pointing out that I doubt very much he would be as thankful if he was a victim of these horrors.
I understand how the world works and more importantly that those feelings you're having are just chemicals and electrical impuslses firing in your brain, nothing more. So yea in a sense i would still be thankful. Thankful that i was borne into the world, which is a gift in itself.
It doesn't make those feelings any less real. Life is precious, we must treasure the short lives that we are given - not carelessly throw existence away.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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trendal
Jâ™
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3024527 - 08/19/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Overpopulation appears to be the natural course taken by all species when confronted with over-supply of food/habitat. Life appears to be "designed" to take full advantage of its environment: if there is sufficient food/habitat for a species to grow in number, then it will grow. Exponentially. As the species (again, ANY species) continues to populate the habitat and use up the food sources, a point is reached that is defined as "overpopulation". This happens very quickly, in the end. The population explodes to the point of exhausting all available food sources, at which point there is a population "crash" (or mass die-off) as the species returns to something of a balance.
We humans like to think we are "different" than the rest of Life here on Earth. We "think", unlike "the animals", so we wrongly assume that all human activity is a product of this "thinking". This is just not the case! Much, if not all, of human behavior probably comes from the same blueprint as animal "instinct" does. We have simply gone and abstracted the concept by several levels
We (humans) are definitely on the upward slope towards overpopulation. The human population of Earth has exploded from about 1 billion to over 6 billion in the past 150 years. Our population has DOUBLED in the past 40 years. This massive population increase over the past 150 years is a direct result of our oil use, specifically: it's use in (and sole support of) the agricultural industry. We have made enough food to feed the entire planet's population several times over. Starvation is a local phenomena right now, and we DO HAVE the ability to remove it from the picture entirely. There is enough food to go around. This may not always be the case...
As our population explodes, thanks to the black gold, we consume our energy reserves at an ever increasing rate. I fear we will SOON hit the wall: the end of the Oil Age. This will come suddenly, with little warning to most of the population (though the signs are there, now, for any to read who have the stomach for the truth). If our science has not advanced far enough by the time this happens and we have not used this science for the good of all...then most of the Earth's human population will die-off just like a locust swarm that has eaten all the available crops. The population will decline, in the span of a single generation, to numbers that can be supported by our habitat alone (without the abundant energy from oil).
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024541 - 08/19/04 04:50 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rogue_pixie said: Having technology means it is even more unlikely we will ever achieve world peace. Even if every country were to "agree" to disarm all their nuclear weapons today, countries wouldn't trust each other now that the knowledge exists. You can't undo technology, sadly. The best way would be for the whole world to unite, as oppose to dividing ourselves off into countries.
The most technologically advanced "thing" on earth is the human brain. It is this which will keep us from world peace forever.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3024554 - 08/19/04 04:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well that kind of attitude certainly won't help, no.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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trendal
Jâ™
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024557 - 08/19/04 04:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Technology is not the problem.
It's the users who fuck everything up.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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mr crisper
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024588 - 08/19/04 05:09 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fuck your philosophical babble Doesn't stop him from being an evil cunt.
such well-considered sentiments convey more information about you than anything else. welcome to spit&feelo.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3024599 - 08/19/04 05:12 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Without all these problems in our world, we would have nothing to struggle against." yeah howabout RESOLVING overpopulation. we need to get off of this planet. that should already be a main goal of ours, to spread this unhealthy little monkey all throughout the galaxy and see what he can REALLY do
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Strumpling]
#3024604 - 08/19/04 05:13 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Why do people have to die?" "To make life important".
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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rogue_pixie
faerydae
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: mr crisper]
#3024606 - 08/19/04 05:14 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr crisper said: Quote:
Fuck your philosophical babble Doesn't stop him from being an evil cunt.
such well-considered sentiments convey more information about you than anything else. welcome to spit&feelo.
Nice to see that you're keeping the standards up.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024615 - 08/19/04 05:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think evolution would work without death, because overpopulation would become a problem way too fast for technology to handle it, and the planet would just be CRAWLING with early lifeforms.... like there would still be dinosaurs around, and the entire planet would be covered with greenery and nasty bacterias and stuff. We probably wouldn't have even evolved if physical death was not a part of the equasion
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3024617 - 08/19/04 05:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rogue_pixie said:
Quote:
mr crisper said: Quote:
Fuck your philosophical babble Doesn't stop him from being an evil cunt.
such well-considered sentiments convey more information about you than anything else. welcome to spit&feelo.
Nice to see that you're keeping the standards up.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3026659 - 08/20/04 12:06 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
And you're wrong, war was invented. No other animal on the planet commits war. And most species' in large groups try to help their starving brethren.
incorrect...
animals fight all the goddamn time. when seperate clans or packs or whatever of the same species get together, if they're not a herd animal like cows or something they tend to fight. usually not fatal.. but monkeys, baboons, they fight for keeps.
We've got got the biggest rock on the whole damn planet, that's all.
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d33p
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Mushmonkey]
#3026728 - 08/20/04 12:24 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushmonkey said: Quote:
And you're wrong, war was invented. No other animal on the planet commits war. And most species' in large groups try to help their starving brethren.
incorrect...
animals fight all the goddamn time. when seperate clans or packs or whatever of the same species get together, if they're not a herd animal like cows or something they tend to fight. usually not fatal.. but monkeys, baboons, they fight for keeps.
We've got got the biggest rock on the whole damn planet, that's all.
Well we were talking about war on a large scale. As if animals would actually band together and fight another species.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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BleaK
paradox
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3027077 - 08/20/04 02:41 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
entiformatie said: Without all these problems in our world, we would have nothing to struggle against. We would put forth no effort. In essence, we would be meaningless. We would be automated nothings floating about a river. But we are given obstacles, and with these obstacles, we are given a chance to define ourselves. We can put forth the effort, and how we do so, against what, for what, that is what we become. That's what seperates me from this computer I'm sitting at.
ART.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Mushmonkey]
#3027430 - 08/20/04 06:28 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also, animals fight for survival. Now answer these questions:
What does Bin Laden fight for? What does Bush fight for? What did the people in the Age of Enlightenment fight for?
What recorded time period offered the largest growth to knowledge and peace?
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: rogue_pixie]
#3028445 - 08/20/04 12:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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whoa buddy, i think you've misunderstood what i've tried o convey. I definitely don't smile about all the problems our world has to deal with. I can barely sleep at night thinking about them. But I found a way to accept them, to understand the necessity of certain things, while still trying to overcome them. I do what I can for other people, don't go and judge me just yet.
And mad buddha abuser... that's some hypocrisy right there, but I won't even bother with that.
-------------------- /opinion .sean
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3028558 - 08/20/04 12:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife" Thats like saying: "I'm glad people are ignorant." I'm glad ignorant people are glad about being ignorant. Nothing against you personally. I believe you're misrepresenting yourself, and that you do not enjoy seeing people suffer. In fact, I'm willing to bet the opposite is true.
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.
Edited by psyka (08/20/04 01:00 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: BleaK]
#3028735 - 08/20/04 02:01 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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That was fucking beautiful! You "know".
Adversity is not neccesary for life to have meaning. Creative expression and appreciation for it is all one needs to derive meaning from existance.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3028764 - 08/20/04 02:07 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said: Well we were talking about war on a large scale. As if animals would actually band together and fight another species.
wolves do. Packs of wolves stick in groups, fight other packs ( often wolves will die ) and any animals. Theyll run down bears, anything. As for ART for meaning in life: I'm sorry, but you people ( those saying art will replace suffering and give meaning to life ) are morons. The greatest art has been borne from the depths of human sickness and grotesqueness. The greatest artists have been husks of "normal" people, paranoid beyond belief, depressed and focused on their OWN thing. There is no art without war, famine, sickness and death. For one, I abhorr the disgusting crap most people love - nice colors, but incredibly shallow. Great technique!.. but hollow. Those things are MEANINGLESS. Meaningful art is an expression of some kind of pain
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3028877 - 08/20/04 02:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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You have to have TWO opposing sides to have a war Otherwise its called survival. Name some great artists influence by human sickness and grotesqueness and I'll try to name 5 more that are the opposite. My point is the human spirit does not require war to thrive. In fact, its obviously the opposite. Pain does not equal happiness. Meaningful art is an expression of some kind of feeling. Not just pain. Am I speaking to war machines or human beings? http://images.google.com/images?q=famous+art&ie=UTF-8&hl=en
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.
Edited by psyka (08/20/04 02:38 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3028907 - 08/20/04 02:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Morrow..............................
Morrow.....
Art in it's general sense as it was used by bleak and myself appreciate that the dark and light compliment each other.
This topic is all about how they oppose each other and I realise not many will understand this and I was impressed by Bleak for pointing it out to all of you fighting amongst yourselfs here.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3028960 - 08/20/04 03:02 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morrowind said:
Quote:
d33p said: Well we were talking about war on a large scale. As if animals would actually band together and fight another species.
wolves do. Packs of wolves stick in groups, fight other packs ( often wolves will die ) and any animals. Theyll run down bears, anything.
Well that does not constitute war to me. Now if hundreds of wolves declared war on Black bears in a certain area i would change my answer.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: psyka]
#3028996 - 08/20/04 03:12 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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ok then, please name 5 whose art is not a reflection, acceptance or rejection of pain and which actual has some meaning ( as I see it, life is centered around a concept of pain + negativity. Not an arbitrary choice, but rather the only possibility. Maybe a matter of perspective, but if you want me to elaborate, just ask ). Also, how is it not a war when you have two wolf packs agreeing to kill each other over resources?
get: Dark and light complimenting themselves is a technical aspect. To derive meaning from such compliments requires an equivalent knowledge of ultimate horror and ultimate pleasure ( which is really created by you from experiences ) . You're very limited if your selection ranges from grey to white. Yes, its also limiting from grey to black, but I'm making a point to defend horror here. I would defend elation if it were under attack here.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3029071 - 08/20/04 03:24 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree with that as all souls move through the dark night of the soul so they can appreciate the big picture of compliments with meaning. Thats just what people in pain and suffering are doing right now. I have no desire to go stop a war and take that away from them. I wrote that I could appreciate what comes from them. War is a part of the art of the Divine tapestry and thats what Bleak and I were pointing out. You are seeing this in oppositions and I am seeing compliments. You see adversity because you see oppositions. I can't see the adversity because I choose to see compliments. This is why war can go on all around me and I can be at peace.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#3029712 - 08/20/04 06:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: I agree with that as all souls move through the dark night of the soul so they can appreciate the big picture of compliments with meaning. Thats just what people in pain and suffering are doing right now. I have no desire to go stop a war and take that away from them. I wrote that I could appreciate what comes from them. War is a part of the art of the Divine tapestry and thats what Bleak and I were pointing out. You are seeing this in oppositions and I am seeing compliments. You see adversity because you see oppositions. I can't see the adversity because I choose to see compliments. This is why war can go on all around me and I can be at peace.
Ha! Thank you for reminding me
Peace.
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Posts: 10,867
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3030872 - 08/20/04 11:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Well we were talking about war on a large scale. As if animals would actually band together and fight another species. "
Well that's actually NOT what we're talking about, but that aside animals DO band together and fight other species -- packs of wolves, whales, ants? Cooperative predation. Lions too.
No, and we're actually not even talking about war on a large scale.
War is what? Fighting. No matter how big or how small, it's still just a fight. Obviously the more people are around the bigger the fight will be. Animals don't have the capability to organize on a world-wide scale, but that is simply we humans using our abilities to their fullest -- as all other animals do.
No, what we are actually talking about is intra-species fighting. That's actually LESS prevalant than inter-species fighting (predation wins), but it is in no way shape or form unknown.
Animals of the same species fight all the time. Often it's not fatal, in most species, at least if it is a simple dominance fight.
However, two members of the same species yet from different pack/herd/clan/group.. they'll fight. In some species to the death. Some primates go on patrols and band together in war parties -- to strike a raid against a neighboring clan of monkeys.
Keep in mind, we are not talking about wolves fighting bears, or sharks fighting whales.
Same species.
Happens very frequently in nature.
What, you think humans only started fighting once we became intelligent? Hell no! It's a basal, instinctual thing.
It's all about resources and dominance. Food and sex, really. All we've done is shape that rough rock into an axehead and stuck a wooden handle on it.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Mushmonkey]
#3031034 - 08/21/04 12:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushmonkey said: "Well we were talking about war on a large scale. As if animals would actually band together and fight another species. "
Well that's actually NOT what we're talking about, but that aside animals DO band together and fight other species -- packs of wolves, whales, ants? Cooperative predation. Lions too.
No, and we're actually not even talking about war on a large scale.
War is what? Fighting. No matter how big or how small, it's still just a fight. Obviously the more people are around the bigger the fight will be. Animals don't have the capability to organize on a world-wide scale, but that is simply we humans using our abilities to their fullest -- as all other animals do.
No, what we are actually talking about is intra-species fighting. That's actually LESS prevalant than inter-species fighting (predation wins), but it is in no way shape or form unknown.
Animals of the same species fight all the time. Often it's not fatal, in most species, at least if it is a simple dominance fight.
However, two members of the same species yet from different pack/herd/clan/group.. they'll fight. In some species to the death. Some primates go on patrols and band together in war parties -- to strike a raid against a neighboring clan of monkeys.
Keep in mind, we are not talking about wolves fighting bears, or sharks fighting whales.
Same species.
Happens very frequently in nature.
What, you think humans only started fighting once we became intelligent? Hell no! It's a basal, instinctual thing.
It's all about resources and dominance. Food and sex, really. All we've done is shape that rough rock into an axehead and stuck a wooden handle on it.
No, no you're quite wrong my friend. For a war to exist there must be a prolonged state of open conflict between different parties. You see nature is ruled by survival of the fittest. There isn't any of this religious crap of help thy neighbor. Nature is one large state of open conflict. When animals meet, one thing rules their mind: the instinct of survival. This is not the same thing as a war. Niether is animals hunting in packs.
I mean would you call a bar-fight a war? Hell no.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3031854 - 08/21/04 08:05 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ants, Bacterias or small animals/insects are the species to look at if you will find equivalent examples for your war-model in nature.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Mushmonkey]
#3031879 - 08/21/04 08:16 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Keep in mind, we are not talking about wolves fighting bears, or sharks fighting whales.
Lions will attack and kill hyenas whenever possible. Some predators do kill competing predators of the same or other species.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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d33p
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: BlueCoyote]
#3032381 - 08/21/04 11:54 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: Ants, Bacterias or small animals/insects are the species to look at if you will find equivalent examples for your war-model in nature.
Well certainly not my war-model.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3032400 - 08/21/04 12:00 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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what does your war model include? Weapons of mass destruction, and nuclear threat?
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: vampirism]
#3032904 - 08/21/04 02:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Blind?
Quote:
d33p said: No, no you're quite wrong my friend. For a war to exist there must be a prolonged state of open conflict between different parties. You see nature is ruled by survival of the fittest. There isn't any of this religious crap of help thy neighbor. Nature is one large state of open conflict. When animals meet, one thing rules their mind: the instinct of survival. This is not the same thing as a war. Niether is animals hunting in packs.
I mean would you call a bar-fight a war? Hell no.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3033809 - 08/21/04 06:34 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
No, no you're quite wrong my friend. For a war to exist there must be a prolonged state of open conflict between different parties. You see nature is ruled by survival of the fittest. There isn't any of this religious crap of help thy neighbor. Nature is one large state of open conflict. When animals meet, one thing rules their mind: the instinct of survival. This is not the same thing as a war. Niether is animals hunting in packs.
Let's see. For a war to exist there must be a prolonged state of open conflict between different parties. Nature is one large state of open conflict.
A "party" is just a group of things that exist together in some sort of community or group. Plenty of those in nature. Looking at those two quotes, shouldnt you be arguing instead that PEACE is an invention of man's, and that WAR would be the natural state of things?
No really, you should. That's more true than what you're trying to argue.. well, what you're saying you're arguing. It really looks like you actually ARE making the argument for peace being unnatural.
It's the human ability to reason and remember that turns conflict into a long-term large-scale operation that you seem to be picturing. At the root of things, war is just a really big fight as I've said. Animals fight all the time.
Let's take lions. If a lion sees another lion outside of its pack, it will attack it and chase it off, as it is a threat to their society. If it sees another animal with food, it will take it by force unless the other animal is stronger. If a new male lion takes over a pride, it will kill the offspring of the previous leader.
I think you're going to have to provide some sort of arguments with more substance than "Nu uh! I'm right!", because as it stands that's really all you've come up with.
War is not an invention of man; rather, man is an invention of war.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3033830 - 08/21/04 06:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Surely you know of driver ants and their well planned campaigns ? Bacterias or viruses an their everlasting struggle for world-dominance ?
I think there are wars on many planes of natural existence and that it is not only a human concept.
That doesn't make a war, driven by human concepts, better in any way. We are the ones, who ought to prevent it.
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trendal
Jâ™
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Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3033842 - 08/21/04 06:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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When animals meet, one thing rules their mind: the instinct of survival.
While this is true, it fails to point out that there are MANY cases where animals (and especially insects) use group behavior to increase the survival chances OF THE GROUP. This, by necessity, puts "the group" survival above the individual's survival.
When it gets cold, bees clump themselves together into a ball around the queen and begin to shake their wings and muscles - producing heat. All the bees in the outside layers die from the cold anyway, but as they die they use up their remaining energy to give heat to the rest of the hive. This is just one example of this type of behavior, but it happens in quite a few places throughout nature.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
Jâ™
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: BlueCoyote]
#3033859 - 08/21/04 06:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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We are the ones, who ought to prevent it.
Exactly! We humans are, after all, supposed to have this rather mystical quality we call "free-choice"...
Humans appear to be alone in the animal kingdom for our ability to chose how we survive. We share many common traits with the rest of life here on Earth, but this single difference creates a large gap that SHOULD be exploited (ie: we should use our "free-choice" to put an end to "survival of the fittest").
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3033901 - 08/21/04 06:50 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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well I must have missed that.
Define prolonged in this case. Wolf packs often have skirmishes over a period of years, and they are certainly not randomnly running into each other and trying to get food.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3033924 - 08/21/04 06:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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i can't beleive I haven't checked out this thread sooner
name calling does nothing to add in discussion at all, and it one of the reasons why it's one of the guidelines on S&P.
this thread at times seems like a philisophical warzone in its own right.
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: entiformatie]
#3034003 - 08/21/04 07:10 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Without all these problems in our world, we would have nothing to struggle against. We would put forth no effort. In essence, we would be meaningless. We would be automated nothings floating about a river. But we are given obstacles, and with these obstacles, we are given a chance to define ourselves. We can put forth the effort, and how we do so, against what, for what, that is what we become. That's what seperates me from this computer I'm sitting at."
The city I used to live in seemed like a warzone constantly, and these people have food, shelter and clothing, the bare essentials of life. we are the creation of our own struggle, not what happens. what happens is only the result of our creation. what is wrong?? nothing is, except what our minds deems as wrong and from there in manifests in reality.
some people have to have more than others, and since we have a monetary system that we all depend on, some have more than others. in fact, the have nots far out weigh the haves, and we are the haves. and when the ego has something, it'll do most anything to keep it that way. this includes not having compassion for others and sharing.
how do most humans protect what they have?? they fight
how about getting back what they want? they fight
both stem from the ego, since both involves the individual.
to give is to let go, and human most certainly don't want to let go.
it is therefore my opinion, that war isn't the yang to our yin as I think war is the result of.
I dunno how you can be happy about it.
unless I misunderstand you
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: psyka]
#3034032 - 08/21/04 07:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Overpopulation is fairly recent. In fact, I'm fairly certain its a byproduct of war, famine, conflict, and strife. The reason why China is so overpopulated is because the government took a defense measure against the war on communism and encouraged the Chinese to birth as many children as possible. More people = more soldiers...overpopulation is unnatural"
you bring up some good points...but I wonder, aren't there many factors involving over population.
A little bit of the monetary system can be put there. science has increased its technology in the medical field to increase and enhance our lives. technology in how we live as well.
oppression is also another one as the "haves" will conitnue to keep and take more and morel leaving others with less and less.
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: kaiowas]
#3034086 - 08/21/04 07:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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well you have to admit that a very real possibility of apocalypse can make *someone* enjoy life more.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Mushmonkey]
#3034109 - 08/21/04 07:35 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushmonkey said: Let's see. For a war to exist there must be a prolonged state of open conflict between different parties. Nature is one large state of open conflict.
A "party" is just a group of things that exist together in some sort of community or group. Plenty of those in nature. Looking at those two quotes, shouldnt you be arguing instead that PEACE is an invention of man's, and that WAR would be the natural state of things? Some animals are peaceful by nature and others are more agressive. Peace is an absence of conflict, so it would be hard to ever find real peace
No really, you should. That's more true than what you're trying to argue.. well, what you're saying you're arguing. It really looks like you actually ARE making the argument for peace being unnatural. show me fighting in other places of the universe. Peace is the natural order. With intelligence comes conflict, and possibly war.
It's the human ability to reason and remember that turns conflict into a long-term large-scale operation that you seem to be picturing. At the root of things, war is just a really big fight as I've said. Animals fight all the time. Fighting brought on by insticts is not war
Let's take lions. If a lion sees another lion outside of its pack, it will attack it and chase it off, as it is a threat to their society. If it sees another animal with food, it will take it by force unless the other animal is stronger. If a new male lion takes over a pride, it will kill the offspring of the previous leader. Survival and instinct, not war
I think you're going to have to provide some sort of arguments with more substance than "Nu uh! I'm right!", because as it stands that's really all you've come up with. To be frank i really having been shown an actual case where animals engaged in war.
War is not an invention of man; rather, man is an invention of war. Hey just because it may sound good doesn't mean it means anything
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
Registered: 09/25/03
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Last seen: 5 months, 8 hours
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: d33p]
#3035289 - 08/22/04 02:50 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Deep, you're just too entrenched in your own comfortable belief that humans are some big, mean evil thing that brought darkness to this beautiful and bright natural word to ever be dislodged. I was starting to get bored arguing with somebody whose only counterpoint is "no your wrong" anyway.
Have fun. This has long ago passed across the point of idiocy, and I refuse to expend any thought on anybody not decent enough to do the same. I'm not checking this thread after this post.
Now. I'm typing very slowly, so please read very slowly, I would hate for you to miss something..
War is a big fight. There is no time constraints to war, nor is there a required number of participants. "War" is just a word that we use to describe an organized fight between two different entities. Some wars are large, some are small, some are long and some are short.
It's all just fighting. Without fighting you don't have a war, you have an argument.
All the causes for all the wars ever can very easily be traced back to a very basal instinct that is present in any animal on this planet.
Food. Sex. Dominance.
As we've got this swelled organ in our skulls, we can reason out that if we go to war for resource X, or for territory X, we will benefit. We can think and realize that those people over there, that aren't a part of our every day society and aren't very nice anyway, sure seem like they're going to attack us, and maybe we should attack first. Or maybe they did attack us, and we need to protect ourselves.
We can just make things seem a lot more complicated than that. I'd offer you to challenge my assertion and find a war that was waged for a reason other than some deep-seated instinct that's grown with our own mental prowess, but I know you won't. You're just throwing back "Nu-uh I'M right!" to any counter-arguments offered, most likely because you realize your argument lacks substance and veracity.
And if you do not think that conflict, fighting, and war has played a large part, perhaps the largest part, in the evolution and development of the human species... well. I would suggest you start reading books, big thick books, non-fiction books, right now.. and don't stop.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: Mushmonkey]
#3035817 - 08/22/04 09:33 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushmonkey said: Deep, you're just too entrenched in your own comfortable belief that humans are some big, mean evil thing that brought darkness to this beautiful and bright natural word to ever be dislodged. I was starting to get bored arguing with somebody whose only counterpoint is "no your wrong" anyway. Intelligence breeds two things: desire and ability. This is major factor accountable for man's inherent evilness. But i digress, this is not an argument of men nor beast, but one of semantics. I subject which I'm guessing you are not very well versed in. Have fun. This has long ago passed across the point of idiocy, and I refuse to expend any thought on anybody not decent enough to do the same. I'm not checking this thread after this post. If you want to call your remarks idiocy, i'm fine with that. Now. I'm typing very slowly, so please read very slowly, I would hate for you to miss something.. War is a big fight. There is no time constraints to war, nor is there a required number of participants. "War" is just a word that we use to describe an organized fight between two different entities. Some wars are large, some are small, some are long and some are short. War is not just a big fight silly head. I've tried to explain this numerous times, but your thick head must be getting in the way. It's all just fighting. Without fighting you don't have a war, you have an argument. Ever heard of the cold war? All the causes for all the wars ever can very easily be traced back to a very basal instinct that is present in any animal on this planet. Desire and ability are not instinct but things which come with intelligence. Food. Sex. Dominance. We can just make things seem a lot more complicated than that. I'd offer you to challenge my assertion and find a war that was waged for a reason other than some deep-seated instinct that's grown with our own mental prowess, but I know you won't. You're just throwing back "Nu-uh I'M right!" to any counter-arguments offered, most likely because you realize your argument lacks substance and veracity. Considering you've yet to show me one case of actual war between animals you sure seem cocky and pretentious. World war 1 began due to Franz Ferdinand's very cocky attitute. After his assassination the entente between most European nations caused a relativly small matter to become a world war. Which instinct started this war? I could also go on to explain the start of the second world war, cold war, korean war, vietnam war, and the second gulf war; but i hope my point stuck already. And if you do not think that conflict, fighting, and war has played a large part, perhaps the largest part, in the evolution and development of the human species... well. I would suggest you start reading books, big thick books, non-fiction books, right now.. and don't stop. For one i never said that it doesn't. To ssay a blnaket statement like that would be retarded. And considering you've never heard of the cold war i suggest you read a few books. And here i will make my biggest point: If war can just be matter of a pack of wolves fighting another pack of wolves on one occasion then why do we not call a bar fight a war?
Because man i went to a party last night but the band sucked so the party basically ended. Then these two guys started a war. It only lasted for about 30 seconds though. Damn i can't believe i witnessed that war. Now i now why they say war is hell.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
Edited by d33p (08/23/04 01:37 PM)
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: I'm glad we have famine war conflict and strife [Re: kaiowas]
#3039733 - 08/23/04 01:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not suggesting that war is a necessary counterbalance for happiness to exist (which is what most people seem to think I am saying). What I'm trying to say is that it is part of the evolutionary process, that we will create war, and that war will be necessary for us to learn how to come to peace.
A state of perfection is not one in which war exists, but one in which we overcame war, apathy, greed, jealousy, gluttony, etc, through an effort put forth by each and every individual. It's a process that I believe will lead us through evolution. We cannot have a perfect race unless we can all struggle and put forth effort, surpass our own limitations. It is in this struggle that we find our godhood.
-------------------- /opinion .sean
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