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Everyone keeps talking about this "aggression" that we skeptics have, but frankly, I don't see it. The only negative attitudes displayed by skeptics here are towards those who hide from and fear rational discussion. Rational discussion itself is not aggressive or hostile. It is inquisitive. Rarely in S&P do I see skeptics claiming the others' views are wrong. Usually, the claim is that the other person is making unreasonable assumptions or jumping to conclusions based on insufficient evidence. I see nothing aggressive or hostile about this.

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Paradigm said:

I think one positive aspect of a split would be that we could have different mods for the two different forums, so we wouldn't have to worry about the bias that we have now.

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Nice point!

KingOftheThing said:

im against the spilt. i think people posting in a discussion forum should expect their ideas to be discussed and sometimes critically. my guess is some people are sad/mad because they realize what they believe isnt plausible. when i read s&p (which i do daily) i check the first post. sometimes im amazed and i think, this sounds good, could it be true? should i belive this? then i read on and somebody argues against it, coherently, somtimes disproves it. now i can make and imformed decision on what i want to believe. with the level of kookery in s&p sometimes, skeptics are needed to level things out.

now lets say i believe in budhism, so i come into s&p posting about some budhist concept. people have the right to critically pick apart what ive said. or they can agree with it. if i want to not be questioned, i should probably be posting on a budhist forum where will all sing my praises and agree.

couldnt i just go into this new s&p forum and post that spaghetti monsterim is the absolute truth (http://www.venganza.org/index.htm). i could tell everyone that there is 100% no doubt a flying spaghetti monster created this earth and no one could question me??? gay.

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I think its a valid point, I think many on both sides want to debate their beliefs, as well as have a place to have a love in so to speak.

Its like this, say you see a group of some religious group sitting in a corner at the univercity debating various things about their wonderfull god Bob. You overhear and being that you don't believe in Bob you go over to let them have it, point out holes in their silly belief and show your superiority in not believing in anything at all 

Now is it right for you to do so? Is it right for them to tell you to get the hell out of there and leave them be?

Its pretty easy being a skeptic once you become one, I think becoming a skeptic is not easy as most people are conditioned from a young age to believe in something. Believers have a hard time arguing with skeptics because the beliefs they hold are not tangible and for most skeptics its easy to poke holes in all religions

Anyhow I'd like to see the split if there is some way for people to still debate beliefs, because I do enjoy that personally even though I'd never spend the time on a message board debating with people 

Ravus said:

It is absolutely ridiculous. Most people can't even take a serious discussion about their ideas. Of course, we can discuss which chakra to focus on in meditation and this will lead to "heated" discussions about the third eye or the crown, but Jesus forbid we ever question the existence of such a thing! Someone might even PM a mod!

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Ravus said:

It is absolutely ridiculous. Most people can't even take a serious discussion about their ideas. Of course, we can discuss which chakra to focus on in meditation and this will lead to "heated" discussions about the third eye or the crown, but Jesus forbid we ever question the existence of such a thing! Someone might even PM a mod!

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Ravus, you first say you want to have a serious discussion with someone about chakras. In the next breath, you say , what you really want to do is SERIOUSLY TELL THEM THEY DON'T EXIST.

See the difference?

If you want to have a serious discussion with someone, about a strange itch you have, are you going to go to a doctor who deals with strange itches, go to friends who have had strange itches or would you honestly go to have a serious discussion with someone, who has never experienced a strange itch and thinks strange itches don't exist and we say you are delusional or blindly beleive you have one because your friends have had them?

Who would you expect, to actually have the serious discussion about your strange itch with?

What would be ridiculous is your attempting to have a serious discussion about strange itches with someone, who's never had one and doesn't even beleive in them. If they laugh at you, make fun of you, or insuate you are stuopid or delusional or making stuff up to get attention, how could you possibly have a serious discussion with them about the itch, you really are experiencing?

In all fairness Thor, what you just described about churches and religions sounds like the shroomery.

A place where people of like beleifs about shrooms can come together to discuss their experiences and beleifs about them where they will go unchallenged about their right to experience them and discuss it.

Maybe some people think shroomers are blind to their dangers having faith that all is well and safe with their use.

I'm not a religious person myself and don't beleive in anything I havn't experienced and put to the test and challenge for myself, however, I wrote that so maybe you could have something to relate to the church goers with and be less judgmental and a little more understanding of what its like for them.

I use to rip on the church and religion in S&P and after katrina, when I saw the churches get in their quicker and help more people, more proficiently and on a volunteer bases better then our own government who is paid to help, I started to realize how harsh I was being. Not all is bad with religion and the church. I was only focussed on what was wrong with it and became glad I got the opportunity to see what is right with it. That was a sense of community with a common interest and a goal to serve that community at large.

The shroomery can relate to that aspect of the church and religion.

Seeing only the bad in something and not the good is a form of blindness also. Every body is blind in some way. It doesn't mean they are bad or wrongful people.

Everyone is finding their way through the fray of life as best as they can and with a little help from friends.

Peace and Respect!