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Swami said:
"Question Everything Version"
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RP1: I saw a UFO last night.
true, he saw an UNIDENTIFIED flying object.
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RP2: I saw one 10 years ago. I was on DXM and shrooms and it was cool!
true, he saw that. what was the role of the drugs?
.
Swami: What you saw was a mylar balloon floating over a swamp reflecting Venus...
FALSE, you were not even there. Why is it *not true* while you know nothing other than that someone believes they saw something?

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Paradigm said:

Ravus said:

I don't really agree with this. I find the clashes between people using logic and people using faith rather interesting, and to split them up would possibly take away that element.

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I agree, but apparently this aspect which I find interesting also ends up making certain people butthurt. So I'm willing to concede to such people their own forum

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No, it's clear that cowardice disguised as spirituality is looked down upon.

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There is the notion that S&P is *owned* by logic-people and that spiritual opinions intrude on their turf.

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Paradigm said:

Ravus said:

I don't really agree with this. I find the clashes between people using logic and people using faith rather interesting, and to split them up would possibly take away that element.

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I agree, but apparently this aspect which I find interesting also ends up making certain people butthurt.  So I'm willing to concede to such people their own forum where they can have their little safe haven while the rest of us seek the truth through rational discourse.

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I'm a skeptic, I do not believe in god or gods. But what I see as wrong is people pushing others into their beliefs, like the christian right is trying to do with the USA citizens

What I do like to see is those who consider themselves skeptics, people of science/truth/fact, etc.. Conduct themselves with debate that doesn't involve insulting your counterpart.

You never convince or warm your opposition to your way of thinking if you do it with aggression, as they will outright ignore your points and focus on your hostility or rudeness. However if you TRULY want to affect change on someone who opposes your views; the BEST and most EFFECTIVE method is simply by respecting that they have a right to their view (no matter how wrong or silly) and debate them with logic and respect.

I'm only 32 years old, but my god I learned this when I was a teenager, I used to be at block parties discussing religion and me bringing up all kinds of arguments over why I felt all religion was so flawed, etc.. People used to come up to me later after the discussions to 'thank' me for being the first athiest who seemed to listen to their side and show respect for their opinions.

But what I see in some of my skeptic friends in real life is they are angered by the fact people don't agree with their view and they just can't debate such personal issues without being assholes about it, and its very sad because I was tought a long time ago that the moment you get angry in a debate you have lost, no matter if you are making stronger points, the moment you lose your temper or start using sarcasm, rudeness, etc.. you are the loser of that debate.

The internet is even worse for this, people hide behind computers and have little fear of what they say, afterall you are just a name on a screen. It takes MORE strength of character to just debate with respect.

By the way I'm not claiming I'm a super human debater, far from it, I've often lost my temper in dealing with people here online.. But thats why I spend most of my time outside of forums like political forum and spirituality forums.

Anyhow for whatever happens in the S&P forum HAS to be agreed upon by the users of that forum, I would not feel comfortable in pushing anything on that forum since I'm not an active poster there.

I will take my cue from the users and the mods of that forum as you all need to decide your own fate, I will only step in if anyone gets out of line or I am asked to make a decision you all cannot agree upon.

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People only think we "own" that forum because our reasoning capabilities "pwn" others'.

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Wiccan_Seeker said:

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People only think we "own" that forum because our reasoning capabilities "pwn" others'.

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indeed, and pwn was invented because the crew that 0wn3d people (usually shooting newbies who correctly assumed they were on the same team) were such an unpleasant bunch that many gameservers banned the words own and 0wn. So to keep on sucking they invented pwn to bypass the gameservers moderator functions and keep up their sniping of newbies (which it often was in many games)

Do you want to compare the Philosophy crew with that lot?
Lose the pwn metaphor, because it might just be appropriate

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lol you 'owned' him! sorry couldn't help it 

I'm warming up to this idea myself, at first I wasnt sure if this was the right way to go, but we could test this for say 3 months and re-evaluate it later.

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The only negative attitudes displayed by skeptics here are towards those who hide from and fear rational discussion.

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Rational discussion itself is not aggressive or hostile. It is inquisitive.

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I'm sorry but S&P rational discussion isnt as much about *inquisitiveness* (wanting to know) as it is about *dismissing non-logicalo ideas* rejection.

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Well many people take their precious thoughts to S&P to communicate them and they get full-contact REJECTION after the first post of the thread, nobody asking WHY, but all of them saying WHY NOT.

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Then something has to happen. Spirituality is downtrodden the second it fails to be logical. And "God" cannot be proven. So there is no God.

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Be Tolerant
1) Don't be Reactionary
--- Just as everybody has a unique view on things, everybody has a unique style of debate and discussion. Don't accuse others of flaming, baiting, or disruptions, just because they are skeptical of your position. Just as it is the user's responsibility not to provoke others, it is the user's responsibility not to be easily provoked. When you are feeling offended, sometimes it's up to you to keep the peace. The moderators are not here to coddle.
Being too-easily provoked creates just as much of a disturbance as being provocative.

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Wiccan Seeker said:It just looked odd to me that you seemed to try contaminate my thread in roughly the same way as Trendal's.

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I don't believe this is your thread.

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if we had:

Beliefs and Debate
Spirituality and Mysticism

People could choose between:

B&D or S&M

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how true!

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Judging by the lack of reason I've seen in your posts (...) This is one of many cases I've witnessed of you seeing things which aren't there.

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My posts lack reason and I often see things that aren't there?
As judged by whom?