Swami,
I totally agree with your "prediction". I wouldn't have imagined it otherwise.
I haven't been in a spiritual type forum where debate and the challenging of beliefs did not take place. It could just be because,it did and does happen when I am at them.
My first message board was Doreen Virtues crystal children's board. It was an unmoderated happy land until I pushed people to look at things and themselves and to go further. Some cheered me on and some resented my intrusion and wanted me to leave. I left them to their fuzzies and started my own board and many followed me over to sink our teeth into some tough meat.
Debates went to vicious levels there some times. We were cozy in our zone working on stuff and someone new, a bhudavista "oooh" came along and criticized us for being in electrical signatures and said we had to be in our magnetic signatures and stuff about evil pleaidian curses and needing to ascend into the sirian genetic code and blah blah blah and the shit started flying.
Same shit, the only difference is THIS and it's what I see as being what people are wanting the split for, or at least ME.
We all believed in things like electrical and magnetic signatures. We all believed in celestial beings from the pleiades and sirius.
We debated the piss out of those topics and everyone walked away worn out yet, learning more or questioning and exploring more on their own time about things that were already truths in some form to us.
Had someone come in right after Bhudavista, and said, "there is no such thing as electrical and magnetic signatures or pleadians and sirians, prove it, your all delusional fear filled flakes and freaks", No one would've gotten to deeper truths of things that were already true to them or would have grown in those areas of their understanding.
Point being I will take from your chakra example. It was awesome swami. People who already work with their chakra system and acknowledge it exists, will debate and discuss what they know about it with an intent to get to deeper truths of truths they already have.
What currently happens in S&P is that, someone will come along at the start of a chakra thread, say they don't exists, prove it, you guys think you are special or something because you have chakras blah blah. People will pull out and stay away because they don't want to defend the position of chakras being real or not or be ridiculed.
They may be willing to defend their belief in 3 over 13 though. The thread will die and chakras won't be discussed or debated and those who know them as their subjective truths won't get to grow in understanding them better, why they are there and how they work through debate or discussion.
The thread instead typically turns into a debate or discussion about if they even exists or not-thats the problem to me that keeps many of us from growing further.
Maybe some people want a forum split so they can be unchallenged, but I doubt that. Some times we just want to share stuff, pass it along, but mostly we do want to discuss, compare and even debate our personal notes with others to get more clarity on stuff that is truth to us, maybe not science fact, but personal truth non the less.
What we do want is a forum where we can discuss our personal truths that we loosely agree with and would like to hammer out details with each other.
We can't do that very effectively or grow in our own truths and understandings of the meta-physical, transcendental, non- material reality we experience if we have to prove such things even exist or be ridiculed every time they come up.
We don't want to have to defend and fight over if the eternal soul is real or the truth. It is to us. We would like to debate and discuss it's function and purpose and how it works in conjunction with the physical realities. Most of us can handle challenging discussion and debate or we never would've made it a week past posting in S&P if we couldn't.
When I personally talk about the negativity in S&P, I'm not so much referring to the ridicule or dissension itself. That certainly takes place in spirituality forums where growth is taking place.
I am STILL not understanding why there is no forum for people who experience a reality beyond what the 5 physical senses, modern scientific tools, or facts, say is real.
Where can we talk about the truth of that reality to us and it is just as real to many of us as is the physical.
We make baby steps in S&P because most of our time is spent defending that reality to those who say it doesn't exist with out proof or we just don't talk because we don't want to get into it.
We don't care or mind that others don't believe. We do want to discuss and debate with those who already do. Simple as that.
We do, however, carry on such discussions in PM and IM's.
Now why do we have to go off into PMs and IMs to have a decent eye opening discussion that progresses into deeper understandings of truths we already hold?
We should have a forum where we can openly do that, that others can learn and grow with and from too.
Why do say gomp, white Russian and I who believe in frequency encoded language have to prove it to anyone else first to start a discussion on it? Others may find it interesting or be curious and just want to read and learn. Others may be able to jump in and add to it or ask more questions who already understand the basics to spurn our mutual growth in understanding it.
But noooooooo, we just hang out in IM instead and S&P stays stagnant with the same old safe topics.
For as long as reductionism type philosophy is mixed with spirituality, the growth for many wanting to explore the non tangible realities with others will be slow and frustrating.
Thats what I want a split for.
Spirituality says it all right there. Spirit is non physical and encompasses the non physical aspect of many a human experience.
It would be nice to have a forum that allows for the respect that at least the existence of the meta reality itself is not in question. Some of us are beyond that, have proven it to ourselves and want to explore further with others.
In the philosophy forum, they can debate it all they want to. In a spirituality forum, it is usually a given and discussion jumps off from that premise.
S&P is stuck on the ground. Every time someone attempts to jump off from that premise, they get shot down because they can't prove it or are called delusional or afraid or something.
Yes, there are forums out there that jump off that premise and some get but hurt when you challenge them and so you feel discouraged to push the group to save feelings. At least I did and left them to be.
I gave up on mine twice because I didn't like being obligated to it.
There are others that are cool, one I went back to as I am done with S&P as it is. The one thing I like better about S&P is that it exposes me to more explorers, more information and mostly it's fast. Other forums don't have as many members and they move slow. I liked it here that I could post an idea and get 10 replies in 20 minutes, instead of 2 over 3 days like at other forums.
If a split happens, I will probably be interested to post in the spirituality forum of the two. I can have debate about everyday stuff with the people in my life off the computer and do. I come to Internet to find others that are not everyday common consensus reality thinkers. I've met some gems in S&P and am thankful to have relationships off the forum with new found friends from here anyway.
Sucks that are coolest discussions never happened on the public forum.
And yes, the forum will also probably be, pretty supportive, caring and sharing oriented, encouraging and full of love and light and sticky sweet fluffy stuff and maybe no more then the pub or the mental and physical health forum is. This is a community after all. That stuff is normal in healthy thriving families and communities.
For sure, like you say swami, it will still have debate and people will still get but-hurt. The mods will be there to keep it in check like always.
Just my two cents and considering I have averaged 10 posts a day for over the last year there, I hope they mean something to someone in charge listening.
In peace and respect to the common good and growth of the shroomery and its members!
P.S. I like to challenge people, not to reduce themselves but to expand themselves. I like to push people, not into the mud, but into the stratospheres of consciousness and the heart. I like eye openning, not eye closing discussion myself.
edit-typo
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
Edited by gettinjiggywithit (09/27/05 08:30 PM)
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