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Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 41
Loc: Berkeley
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
I dont know what to title this
    #472048 - 11/28/01 04:35 AM (22 years, 10 days ago)

Everything written here is serious, I do not mock or use sarcasm in anything I say. Especially with religion, what I say is true, it is really how I feel

I don?t know why I?m writing this, I think about this kind of stuff sometimes, and figured I?d share it, I?m interested in learning different perspectives, I?m just beginning to change, I was pretty concrete throughout my life, but now everything is different. Im just beginning to think differently, I don?t know what caused it.

If you agree with or understand anything I?m trying to say, even just the struggle I?m having, let me know, I?m trying to understand this madness, and if any of you have had any ideals, and I don?t know who I can talk to about it, this seems like the most appropriate place. At the moment, this is just some negative criticism that?s been troubling me, I find an equal amount of wonder in my life, I?m not depressed, and I enjoy this turmoil which won?t let me free, life would be so boring without it.

How shallow we have become in our ignorance. We have neglected most things magical, special, and enlightening about us. We have attempted to prove everything through science, giving our complete 100% confidence in its factuality and truth. We neglect ourselves through this, how can I honestly tell myself that every emotion, gasping for breaths while laughing, every tear that I cry is reduced to the sad accepted truth which is just chemicals and impulses. Maybe it is, but how sad does that this make existence? Methinks we spend too much time explaining and not enough time enjoying. How ignorant the most of the world is that we reject other people?s points of view because they?re different, honestly how much does this happen? Sometimes I feel like most of the world doesn?t get it? In our rejection of accepting other thought as valid, we reject part of ourselves. Of course I can disagree, there are endless amounts of lifestyles which I don?t understand or agree with, but wait?we?re all alike aren?t we? That makes our actions related, we live every lifestyle, and most of us ignore that which we don?t understand. Part of accepting and knowing yourself is knowing that sometimes you won?t be able to understand. Not understanding is a part of knowing. If any of my roommates here at school read this, they?d think I was crazy or just too stoned to know what I?m talking about. Could be?though it doesn?t seem that way. I am not the flawed; those which refuse to recognize me and anything I say are flawed. I don?t even agree with what I say, so I?m not trying to provide any belief system, I?m not trying to convert anyone. I?m just pointing out problems that I see. I?ve spoken with some people and this hits a familiar note. Maybe one of my goals is to try to understand and accept everything about myself. I know this can never be reached, but I pray I?ll have the courage to try.

I envy the pious. Idolatry?devotion?makes life so much easier to cope with. More than anything I wish I could truly believe, deep down that there is God looking over all of us, and that as long as I follow his teachings or whatnot I will end up in paradise. That all of this just is just temporary suffering for eternal bliss. How wonderful a feeling that must be, weather it be ignorance or not, I wish I believed. Weather or not I went on to paradise doesn?t even matter in the end. What matters is that you enjoy your life. If a religion gets in the way of enjoying my life, and I haven?t been taught it from day one, how can I, or anyone for that matter be expected to give up the only thing I know?is that I am living right now, and I don?t know what?s next. How can I tell myself that this life doesn?t really mean much when it means so much already. That as long as I?m good in the eyes of God, that I?m going to heaven. What a great sales pitch, heaven forever?doesn?t get much better than that.. But the one flaw of it is the 100% devotion and not having a shred of doubt, how can you achieve this? Are our lives just preludes to something? Why is this all so difficult.

I don?t have the bravery to enter this, I?m having difficulty enough trying to keep my frame of thinking and being together from just being my philosophy class here at school, I cant even come up with my own thoughts without questioning who I am, and I don?t even know that yet.

When I think about it, I get sick to my stomach, my mind becomes a tempest, It keeps me awake at night, the thought and idea of death is like a candle in my mind that will never go out. I have to temporarily snuff out this candle sometimes to return to rational thought, bring be back to earth so I can go on with my everyday life without my mind tearing me apart, It?s easy to get swept away in it, and I hate it because it always comes back. Fuck you death.

Please speak your mind

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Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 590
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
Re: I dont know what to title this [Re: RedFluX]
    #472247 - 11/28/01 10:26 AM (22 years, 10 days ago)

I think the worst act of ignorance is that we hold only our own thoughts, ideas, theories for valdid and true. There are utterly few people who are willing to accept the point of view of others no matter how remote from their own it is. It has to do with humility.
All spiritual paths as far as I know stress the  importance of humility. Humility because we are *not* ignorant of the fact that we are ignorant. That is a great step towards growing, in any way: Self freflection. Self awareness is after all one of the prime requisites for being conscious. The illusion of control can be said to be the soil in which the seed of self-importance grows.

My theory about religion is that it was a way for the shamans (or people with religious experiences) of the past of communicating the experience to the rest of the tribe. Since the one thing these expereinces seem to share is to be unspeakable one has to use analogies and metaphors. So stories were told, and they evolved, and soon the stories themselves where put in focus as the expereince was forgotten for one reason or another. As time passes the stories and meanings of them becomes distilled, and to become yet easier to understand for people who are too removed to even grasp these simplifications, they are solidified more and more untill their meaning becomes even more distorted. At the end we sit here with a short list of rules of what one SHALL do and shall NOT do. Instead of understanding the connectedness of all, and seing and experiencing for yourself what is good and what is bad.
I don't know if makes life so much easier though, those who buy inot religion probably have other fears and problems. Like the 100% belief. I think doubt will sneak into most peoples minds, even if they don't admit it. And what about fearing eternal damnation in hell because you were a bad girl? We all have our skeletons in the closet, and fearing god or questioning him might be equally discomforting.

I think of philosophy as the pursuit of thoughts and ideas that go beyond the mindane every-day thoughts that pass our mind. Like what to have for dinner, what to wear, I need a cig, she looks nice, i forgot my homework, how's the weather gonna be, I need to water my plants etc.

>"I cant even come up with my own thoughts without questioning who I am, and I don?t even know that yet."
Question who oneself is has spawned the most famous philosophical quote ever: "I think, therefore I am".
Read this post to see what I think of ideas.
There is only som much to take from, and it requires a great deal of effort to come up with something "new".  Most new thoughts are however just iterations of long forgotten ancient knowledge viewed in another light.

I "defy death" by using logic reasoning (it is even almost valid :smile:):
If you look at things, they never disapear. Everything transforms/dissolves/decomposes into it's constituent parts. So I figure this is valid on a non-physical level also, therefore it applies to our consciousness. You might not "live on" as yourself after death, but you will not dissapear entirely. I realize now that McKennas idea that you flow backwards and forwards in time and become your childre, their children, your parents, theyr parents, untill you dissolve into the whole of humanity. It might not be any more comforting than dissapearing altogether, but it seems that buddhism also teaches this returning to the sea of souls. At the end everything dissolves and merges with it's surroundings.
It might not be inevitable though. I will keep you updated if I find a way to circumvent this :smile:

I spoke my mind, next please.

Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.

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Registered: 10/28/99
Posts: 224
Re: I dont know what to title this [Re: RedFluX]
    #472255 - 11/28/01 10:39 AM (22 years, 10 days ago)

Ignorance as it relates to science...every religion seems to indiciate the illusory quality of reality...except the religion of science (yes, science is a religion - look up the definition of religion and you'll find it fits quite nicely inside the boundary of terms). Science is a religion that tries to desperately prove that reality is /real/. The only problem is that the deeper and further outwards that we look through the lens of science, the more and more ethereal everything becomes - matter somehow becomes reduced from point particles to occilating omni-dimensional 'strings' that have no mass but create all things through processes akin to harmonics. Suns, planets, solar systems all coalesce into a single unified 'thing' when looked at from far enough away - the percieved separation being a function of proximity - of perspective. Both seem to indicate that existance and reality are both relative to perception and that the only 'absolute' is that relativity.

If you understand yourself, you'll understand the universe and god. If you understand the universe you'll understand god and yourself. If you understand god, you'll understand yourself and the universe. Understanding any and all of these is not difficult - we only make them seem so mentally that we might produce this shroud of abstraction to cover them and thusly, ignore them. Enlightenment is not difficult to achieve, the difficulty lies in your ability to believe in the ease of its attainment.

Religion is the manner by which we take the shroud of abstraction we've placed over the face of god and embroider it with our own ideas and ideals. Religion is more a method of poducing a body of devotees who are sympathetic to a system of ideals than iIt is about the dissemination of Truth. We evoke truth through scripture, regardless of the censorship which has filtered through that scripture in the past. Faith is a very powerful force, as powerful as any form of 'magic' we can concieve of. Faith is generally 'self-less' in pure form, a point of existance beyond ego. The bliss that typically accompanies faith is the same bliss usually associated with a momentary glimpse behind the veil of ego. Trust, faith and innoncence are all virtues, it simply is a matter of having some discernment in what you place them in.

Philosophy is the attempt to verbalize and cogitate truth. Fear of philosophy is either the fear of truth itself or the fear of truth becoming muddled in words - both of which are common.

Death. Think of death in the context of life. Which is longer? Is it fair to say that death is the punctuation of life when death is the much larger aspect of being? It is more accurate to say that life is a small facet of death, a specialized form of death, than it is to proclaim that life and death are somehow quantifiably equal. The truth is that there is no seperation between the two except for the seperation within your mind. Fear of death, the kind of fear that keeps one awake at night is rather revealing. If looked at in the above context, it is easy to see how Australian Aboriginees consider life to be Dreamtime. Death is to life, a life is to dreams. Life is a dream within death, sleep is dreaming within life. There is as little to 'worry' about as there is in falling asleep at night. You do not beat yourself up in fear every night about where 'you' will go when you descend into dreams, do you? Likewise, you do not fear in dreams the moment in which you will wake up (unless the dream is good - and that too is revealing).

Your anxiety is the anxiety of our culture. Calm down and learn to take things slowly. Also, if you've developed a drug habit, the best method of coming to grips with 'reality' isn't the some existential fog of pot smoke, its lucidly sitting and accepting everything there is around you. Too often drugs can get in our way, their compulsive use luring us in with partial degredation of Ego that reveals the 'newness' of reality...but then becoming an integral part of ego itself. I'm not telling you to stop using drugs, only to be wary of them and to try to foster temperance and discipline as well.


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