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OfflineWeAreAllOne
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Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 2,649
Loc: Pennsylvania
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics
    #4408522 - 07/15/05 06:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I trust that some of you experienced meditators (for lack of a better word) can help me in my quest.  I have been going through some troubling times in my life recently.  My father died when I was nine,  which is tragic in itself, but I had not felt the effects that that event had on my life until I reached a more mature age.  Many other smaller events have lead me to feel outcast and below average, but I won't go into detail.

Also, I have never had any strong religious influences in my life.  When looking for change and assistance, I planned first on using psychedelics in a strict context to help me sort out my life and make changes (or just learn to live with what has occured and accept it).  In a town where psychedelic substances are extremely hard to come by, I decided that my best bet is meditation.  I know very little about meditation and figured The Shroomery was an excellent place to turn for some reliable information.

I realize I could go to the Erowid meditation guide, and I plan on doing that, but I think that some first-hand information from some experienced people could be of great help. 

How do I go about preparing for meditation?  What is a good place and setting?  Do I need any special items? 

I have many more questions but any information at all that you can provide on this topic is greatly appreciated.

:heart: :heart: :heart:


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: WeAreAllOne]
    #4408557 - 07/15/05 06:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

the best place is somewhere you feel comfortable - some people swear on the outdoors, but the feeling of the wind/noise of birds/etc is always too distracting for me. special items? just loose fitting clothing, and maybe a pillow to sit on if you are afraid your ass will fall asleep. one 'trick' that i can pass on will really help you figure out what it is to concentrate on your breathing - close one nostril with a finger, and breath very deeply and slowly in through the other nostril - feel the breath as it goes in, and try to pinpoint the feeling of it entering the one nostril, and then merging as the nasal cavity opens. then switch nostrils, and breath out through the other one, just as slowly. then breath in through this one, the same way. switch, breath out, breath in, switch breath out breath in, etc etc etc... after some time you'll be able to really notice the difference in feeling from breathing in the left as opposed to the right, and vice versa - as well, doing this will 'force' you to concentrate on your breathing more. do this excercise a bit.

when i meditate, i sit with my eyes closed, in the lotus position (not necessary at all, and actually will be a deterrent if it hurts your legs or causes them to fall asleep), and breath deeply and slowly. you can either try to count your breaths (1 in, 1 out, 2 in 2 out, and so forth - a monk who was a mentor/friend of mine once told me that nobody, not even monks who have been monks for 30 years, can ever get past 5 without thinking [briefly] about something else - or if you get past 5, you'll think "hey i got past 5!" :smile: ), or focus on a 'mantra'. the idea is to focus your conscious thoughts on your breath, so that the busy swirl that is your mind will slowly melt away. eventually, with practice, you won't need to concentrate on anything - you'll be able to drop your conscious mind (albeit for very short periods). it is a constant 'struggle' and in the begining, you might get very aggravated at the fact that you can't concentrate on your breath for more than 1 second before you think of something else. but keep at it, it'll slowly get 'easier'

as well, i find meditation much 'easier' and more productive when combined with yoga.

feel free to post any other questions, and i can answer them to the best of my knowledge. i'm certainly no expert on this subject, but have studied/practiced it for some years.


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: Krishna]
    #4408615 - 07/15/05 06:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Try this http://members.cox.net/l-v-x/
under meditation


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...or something







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OfflineWeAreAllOne
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Registered: 06/25/05
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Loc: Pennsylvania
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: eve69]
    #4408678 - 07/15/05 07:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you, guys.  And Krishna, we should chat by some other means

if you catch my drift.  It's a lot easier.  :smile:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: WeAreAllOne]
    #4411722 - 07/16/05 03:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)



"Drops: There are two types of drops in the body: white drops and red drops... When the drops melt and flow through the inner channels, they give rise to an experience of bliss."

"The red 'female' drops in the navel chakra ascends to the heart chakra, while the white ['male'] drops in the crown chakra descend to the same chakra. The bliss of the drops flowing in the central channel is said to be a hundred times greater than that of orgasm. The drops, moving up or down the central channel, finally enter the 'indestructible drop' in the heart chakra, so called because it is said to be drop that passes from life-time to life-time, taking with it the 'very subtle mind' and 'very subtle wind'."



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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: WeAreAllOne]
    #4412079 - 07/16/05 05:18 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I am no expert and I am rather ignorant about Meditation Styles in other places of the world, outside my own experiences. But I would like to give a few words.

When I first began my quest into inner travel and finding my center. I did jusr as Krishna suggested. I used a count and breathing exercises. I read or heard about it somewhere. What I learned is that yes it is very difficult to get ones mind to a point of absolution. A place where all is still. After expereineing this I was startled to discover that even when one finds himself at that point it is spoiled by the very fact you knew you were there.Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr  LOL

What is the real point to meditation ? Prayer ? Is it to find peace and calmness in one spirit ? Or is it to find meaning in some group of questions ?

So I find there are two types of Meditations. The kind for peace and the kind for answers (or mabey more questions)

Finding the center of ones mind past all learned thoughts is a worthy goal it would seem. But............... I still don't get it yet


For me, meditation times are centered around finding the center of my mind through breathing. I picture a pleasing place and spend time seeing in my mind the sun warming my soul. To feel the happness of the place. There is no pain there. No death. No people nothing but sun. Your place is your place.

I meditate to get some serious work done. What changes does my life need ? What path do I need to take ? What emotion do I need to handle better ? How do I learn to hear the Spirt of God ? What is real what is not ? Sometimes I need to know the future ? Other times I need to understand a quote from Jesus.

As I have already said I am ignorant to the facts of thousands of years of Monks and the experience they have passed on to others.

The point I am trying to get across is this. You do not have to be some special person or some qualified trained Monk. Or even a student of a master. What you do need is a serious need and desire. And the ability to laugh at yourself when you have spent 3 hours sitting still only to find out the only thing that has happened to you is you really need to piss. Which has happened a few times to me :-)


Also I sometimes will take a quote or scripture and instead of clearing the mind,I fill it. Take the phrase and spin it all around in my experiences. Place it in many different situations and see how it plays out. To relearn a lesson dozens of times in my mind. To gain expereince over a problem so when it happens to me I have already delt wih it many times.

I realize I sound kinda screwy but the fact is in the past 3 years meditation and prayer have caused so much change and positive movement in my life is has gotten into the realm of unbelieveable to those around me.

Anyway........... Meditation
can be a powerful tool. And you do not have to be some Monk in the mountions to benifit from it. Besides men whospendall there lives in the persuit of Self.Whathave they really gained ? It is what you contribute to the greater of mankind through the help of God that matters in the end. We all are creatures of Love. :heart: :cool:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: WeAreAllOne]
    #4413396 - 07/17/05 01:16 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Many other smaller events have lead me to feel outcast and below average

Half of the population is (and always will be) below average. So what?

Your questions are just delaying the practice. If you have read a single paragraph on the subject, you know enough to get started.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4413401 - 07/17/05 01:17 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

We all are creatures of Love.

Especially suicide bombers, child abusers, rapists, mass murderers, etc.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: Swami]
    #4413419 - 07/17/05 01:23 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, They were born as love IMO.. Looking into the history of angry violent humans will most often ( and maybe always) find that their basic needs for love and nurturing were not met or violated at some critical point in their childhood.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (07/17/05 01:24 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #4413470 - 07/17/05 01:40 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

They were born as love

What does that mean?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: Swami]
    #4413510 - 07/17/05 01:50 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The creative energy of the Universe is the energy of love IMO. It creates everything. Good and bad, black and white, up and down, you and me and jack the ripper, and the floods and disasters and the births and marriages. Like the concept of Tao. Our concepts and values are not necessarily the same as those of Tao, but still a part of the whole.

That is a conclusion (for now) that I have come to from the experience of living my life. It supports my happiness and doesn't inhibit me. It allows me to practice acceptance of everything. (See thread on Evil?)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBanJankri
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Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: Krishna]
    #4415574 - 07/17/05 06:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Nice words Krishna.

I'll just quote something Ram Dass quoted in his book.

"Do nought with the body but relax; shut firm
the mouth and silent remain; empty your mind
and think of nought. Like a hollow bamboo
rest at ease with your body.
Giving not or taking, put your mind at rest.
Mahamudra is like a mind that clings to nought.
Thus practicing, in time you will reach buddhahood. "

TILOPA'S SONG OF MAHAMUDRA


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Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Meditation in the Absence of Psychedelics [Re: Swami]
    #4416123 - 07/17/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
We all are creatures of Love.

Especially suicide bombers, child abusers, rapists, mass murderers, etc.




Iv'e noticed you keep spinning in the worst that mankind can offer. What is your desire to always use these examples ?

We are creatures of love yes. But that does not mean we love.

You are a child of God but you choose the think God is false. Still wether you like it or not God created you. Denied or not

Just because a person is very bad doea not change what they really are.  We have a choice to be of Love or not. But we are still created from Love and are made of it. :heart:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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