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Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 180
Re: Generation potency
    #41063 - 04/18/01 09:16 AM (22 years, 7 months ago)

This doesn't seem to make sense. Even the suggestion of the survival of the fittest shouldn't really come into it.

If the fittest shrooms won through each time then even they would lose their potency by this suggestion.

Has anyone actually found any scientific proof of this?

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Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 1,396
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Re: Generation potency [Re: longbong]
    #296031 - 04/18/01 11:00 AM (22 years, 7 months ago)

This is an interesting question. I'd imagine the SUBSTRATES used might influence the genotypes of each spore generation. Ryche [et al.] have mentioned alternating substrate between generations. Maybe this exercises more parts of the fungal genome, reducing the chances of certain genes/enzymes crapping out.

How was PF classic developed? It is definitely better for brown rice flour/cake fruiting. I have some PF classic on birdseed right now and it is moderate-slow in colonizing. Was PF selected from multiple generations of prints, all grown out on BRF?

It's well published and utilized knowledge that one can alter an agar formula to select and condition the mycelium for whatever bulk expansion. Peroxide is an example. 'Birdseed agar' mycelium [small amount of ground BS in agar] has less lag-time than unconditioned mycelium. Genes are turned on and are actively transcribed before the actual transfer.
So the question is, 'Do they lose it if they don't use it?' Specifically, is the loss carried through the meiotic/mating cycle, giving deficient progeny?
It's something most will never have to worry about, fortunately. Especially if agar is used.

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Re: Generation potency [Re: Suntzu]
    #296093 - 04/18/01 12:33 PM (22 years, 7 months ago)

Potency is Genetics + environment. Growing the same pure strain out over many petri plates will result in senescense. When we take a print from a single mushroom, that is 4-spored, and germinate those spores on a petri plate or multispore inoculation, this is a form of inbreeding. Any given spore from that print can only breed with 1/4 of the remainder of the spores from that print. When shrooms are collected in the wild, every mushroom you see growing is a different strain. Spores are blown by wind, transfered by the animals that graze, etc..., this insures that strains mate with each other and exchange genetics. Yes their will be a form of senescence from using mushrooms from one print, to produce more prints, and keep doing this over many generations. I doubt that any of us will live that long though.
As far as a pure culture, it will degrade if grown out over and over and over, without returning to the original pure culture selected in the first place. That is the definition of Stametes P-1, P2, P3,P4, system. Read that chapter it will help greatly. Stametes makes large numbers of duplicates of his P-0, or 1st pure isolate. He returns to these cultures from storage, to prevent senescence. He also has the same system for grain spawn. Remember, with the type of reproductive strategy, 4-spore, that cubensis uses, unless you are mixing spores together from different strains, you are inbreeding. But there is still enough diversity, that it will take longer than your life span to noticed a real difference.
Storage of a print for extended periods of time, will result in a lower germination rate, which can limit the remaining gene pool, but not enough for you to notice. Look at the history of P. tampanensis. All cultures in circulation, came from one mushroom, over time those cultures degraded. Sporeworks has syringes that are not from those cultures, but from mushrooms grown from a print from that culture. His new offerings show improved vigor for that reason. They came from spores, not a pure culture that has lost vigor due to twenty-three years of succesive culturing. If you could have access to a pure culture closer to that P-0, it would probably work almost as good as these new syringes.

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