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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: OldSpice]
    #2639582 - 05/05/04 02:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Oh I'm listening.no problem there!I just disagree,to a degree.I'm intitled to do that right?

It varies only from mushroom to individual mushroom-not batch to batch,or strain to strain.No two mushrooms are alike!be it the same strain or not! Stating that,I can say that, the only way to increase the potency of a given strain is find the two most potent mushrooms in the first flush and the following flush and microscoplically(sp?)-lol-mate a spore from each mushroom(I dont know how thats done either-so leave me alone on that)and the resulting mateing has to be grown out and the process repeated-at least 3? times(leave me alone)in order to Obtain A "true" strain that could be more potent.

Did I say something wrong again?

lmao
:thumbup: :cool:


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2640101 - 05/05/04 04:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

It varies only from mushroom to individual mushroom-not batch to batch,or strain to strain.No two mushrooms are alike!




Exactly. One should then come to the conclusion that it would vary strain to strain. The thing that needs to be considered is there is no cubensis strain that is as potent as say Psilocybe azurescens (not even close). The difference between strains is probably not any more measurable than that between batches of the same strain. Too much emphasis is placed on potency. But there was a controlled study that compared the alkaloid content of two different strains and showed a marked difference. I wish I could find that again, it has been posted here before. This potency debate has raged too long, especially since every week someone asks which strain is the most potent. Everybody has their own comment. I have said it a few times before "I refuse to enter this debate anymore", but the "placebo effect" part lured me in to this one.

Quote:

Stating that,I can say that, the only way to increase the potency of a given strain is find the two most potent mushrooms in the first flush and the following flush and microscoplically(sp?)-lol-mate a spore from each mushroom(I dont know how thats done either-so leave me alone on that)and the resulting mateing has to be grown out and the process repeated-at least 3? times(leave me alone)in order to Obtain A "true" strain that could be more potent.




It is much more complicated than that. How would you know that the spores you were germinating and mating microscopically have the genetics you desire? The genetics from the print of those "superior" mushrooms vary just as greatly as the spores that mothered them...



I retire....


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ATWAR]
    #2640164 - 05/05/04 04:46 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"The thing that needs to be considered is there is no cubensis strain that is as potent as say Psilocybe azurescens (not even close). "


Psilocybe Azurescens is not a cube!Irrelevant issue!


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2640181 - 05/05/04 04:50 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

'It is much more complicated than that. How would you know that the spores you were germinating and mating microscopically have the genetics you desire? The genetics from the print of those "superior" mushrooms vary just as greatly as the spores that mothered them...'



check the post called STRAINS


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2640230 - 05/05/04 05:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Your missing my point here. There will never be a cube strain that will be much more potent than the majority of others. I am simply using the other species as a measure of potency. Would you rather me say there is no strain that will produce "x" amount of psilocybin more than the other strains? Does that make sense?

Obviously Psilocybe azurescens is not Psilocybe cubensis.
Damn...


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ATWAR]
    #2640684 - 05/05/04 08:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

>"Your missing my point here. There will never be a cube strain that will be much more potent than the majority of others. I am simply using the other species as a measure of potency. Would you rather me say there is no strain that will produce "x" amount of psilocybin more than the other strains? Does that make sense?"


No Atwar you are missing my point.

>"There will never be a cube strain that will be much more potent than the majority of others."

Oh really? Can you prove the merit in such a bold statement?


>"I am simply using the other species as a measure of potency."

why do you keep doig that?That has nothing at all to do with this post notta-zip!
Dont try to pull me in another direction and deter from the questions at hand!

>"Would you rather me say there is no strain that will produce "x" amount of psilocybin more than the other strains? "

No I wouldnt want you to make yoursewlf out to be a misinformed individual!

>"Does that make sense?"

not to me it doesnt,sorry!

>"Obviously Psilocybe azurescens is not Psilocybe cubensis.
Damn... "

Thank you for clearing that up!


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2641060 - 05/05/04 12:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think your ever going to see the point of my post. Perhaps you should read over it a few more times, disregarding the different species names. I simply used it as a guide for potency (WTF else am I to use?)

I am done with this one... It's a stupid arguement and it seems I am never to get my point across to you. You just keep getting stuck on the part where I mention the other species as a measure of potency.


Edit:
Let's see if I can formulate this into a language you can better understand. I would like to see this experiment done again with the test subjects given a mushroom that is known to have "x" amount of psilocin/psilocybin more than the previous ones they were given. Then tell them they are a weak cube. Do you think these people would have a lesser experience because of this suggestion?


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To give is to live...



Edited by ATWAR (05/05/04 12:26 PM)


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ATWAR]
    #2641108 - 05/05/04 12:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

" I simply used it as a guide for potency (WTF else am I to use?) "


just like the original post by Z! cube to cube,isolate to isolate,clone to clone,bloodline to bloodline,strain to strain

need i say more?
"Edit:
Let's see if I can formulate this into a language you can better understand. I would like to see this experiment done again with the test subjects given a mushroom that is known to have "x" amount of psilocin/psilocybin more than the previous ones they were given. Then tell them they are a weak cube. Do you think these people would have a lesser experience because of this suggestion? "

Nope! but if you tell them they are more potent and better abd blah,blah,blah then yes they will believe they are better!
its in the mind!

edit=the effects of a given amount of said drug, given at the same dosage levels,to 2 different people,will be basicaly the same,(i know they vary from individual to individual)tell 1 they are the best,and tell the other one they are better than dudes(the other test subject)and I'll bet you a fresh crisp $100.00 dollars of good old American cash-that they will be in a heated debate about their experiences,1 saying"mines the best"and the other ssaying"mine was better than yours"

its a good thing Atwar dont take this as a personal attack and get mad,I think I am learning something here-if I can just get ahold of it.

:thumbup: :cool:


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Edited by doc34 (05/05/04 12:44 PM)


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2641171 - 05/05/04 12:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

edit=the effects of a given amount of said drug, given at the same dosage levels,to 2 different people,will be basicaly the same,(i know they vary from individual to individual)tell 1 they are the best,and tell the other one they are better than dudes(the other test subject)and I'll bet you a fresh crisp $100.00 dollars of good old American cash-that they will be in a heated debate about their experiences,1 saying"mines the best"and the other ssaying"mine was better than yours"




Subjective. How could they argue which experience was better (especially since these are two different people)? What would they use as a guide?

I agree your mind plays a role, but I really do not think it is that significant. This is why I would like the original test subjects be given the same experiment reversed.


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ATWAR]
    #2641211 - 05/05/04 12:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Subjective. How could they argue which experience was better (especially since these are two different people)? What would they use as a guide?"

I said "experiences"I was again refering to the original post by Z as to potency!

So can we now come to the conclusion that from Gt's to Creeper's,the potency variables will be so minute in differences,that one could not distinguish them apart in a blind "taste test" for potency?

I agree!


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2641448 - 05/05/04 01:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

So can we now come to the conclusion that from Gt's to Creeper's,the potency variables will be so minute in differences,that one could not distinguish them apart in a blind "taste test" for potency?




I also agree to an extent. While I have had weak and strong batches, there are some strains that stand above others in my mind. There are also others that fall to the bottom of the pack. When these were put into a blind bioassay test there is probably no way you could come to the conclusion that one was far better than the other. This is where the mind comes into play. Chemical analysis of alkaloid content is really the only way to determine if a strain is markedly more potent than another (bioassay is far to subjective). But who is going to put multiple samples of each strain, from different cultures, and different flushes into a gas chromatograph (then taking an average from each)?


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ATWAR]
    #2641475 - 05/05/04 01:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

whoa whoa whoa whoa











I hear you!
:thumbup: :cool: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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Offlineberto23
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Zwieback0]
    #2641790 - 05/05/04 03:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zwieback0 said:
I didn't bother reading the whole thing.

Hypothetically speaking, if you usually reach a level 4 trip when you consume an eigth of cubie mushrooms out of a possible 10 levels, you will not get a level 8 or 10 just because you decided to eat an eigth of a different strain of cubie mushrooms.





u kno, cubies are not the only kind of magic mushroom... cubies vary very little except for some like puerto rican which is a little bit more potent, but there are definately others which are between 3 to 10x more potent


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InvisibleZwieback0
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: berto23]
    #2642171 - 05/05/04 05:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ay, I know, but we are talking about cubies here, no other! I reiterated that fact...2nd to last word in that post.


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Zwieback0]
    #2642904 - 05/05/04 09:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You guys still hackin away about cubensis differential in potency?
A cube is a cube...I cant tell the differance between BRF WBS or CORN when i eat it and the same with the cubes i grow from it... :cool:
Except for some Mazzys that were unreal ... :thumbup:


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So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Zwieback0]
    #2643030 - 05/05/04 09:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

this threads makes me happy.. :laugh:


potency is all in the head... a cube is a cube.  the only difference in strains are the region they were founded...  its like the human race.. some people are stronger than others but in general there are more people in the same strength class. :smirk:


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2643053 - 05/05/04 10:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

to clarify my above statement even more... people from africa arent' stronger than people from america and people from south america aren't stronger than icelanders.. they are all the same...  now if you pick out the strongest of those people than you have a supory strian of people... buts thats called racism now and we can't allow that on these boards. :wink:

I can see how if, I ate an 1/8th of cubes and had a strong trip and then ate an 1/8th a month later and it was a weak trip.. I would chalk it up to setting and diet, not potency of a strain...

I grow different strain b/c of there regions not b/c of there potency....


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2644472 - 05/06/04 08:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Very well stated!!

Thank you


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2644716 - 05/06/04 10:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you're ignoring evolution.

years of being inslaved and put to backbreaking labor on a daily basis _over time_ would create a race generally stronger than the people the slaves worked for. why wouldn't this be true of mushrooms? also people living close to the equador or where the sun is harsh have darker skin to protect against the sun (blacks, arabics ect.), people north of it have lighter skin, and not darker skin because of sunburn but born with darker skin. what is the purpose of psilocybin in mushrooms? why wouldn't evolutionary factors apply to them? just an example but say the mushrooms formed psilocybin to protect against a certin kind of parasite. in some places this parasite is found in higher concentrations than others, so naturally over time the mushroom in the location with the higher concentration of parasites would start to produce a higher amount of psilocybin to protect itself while the one with a lower concentration of parasites would be fine how it was, therefor because of regional diffrences you have one strain of the same species with a higher psilocybin content then another. it has been proven that some strains produce more psilocybin than others. though i agree that set and setting are more important factors than a mg or 2 diffrence in the amount of psilocybin this is not true:

Quote:

potency is all in the head... a cube is a cube. the only difference in strains are the region they were founded...




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There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: John]
    #2644916 - 05/06/04 12:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Lets do the math.

1% versus .8 %

5 grams at 1% is 50 milligrams activity
5 grams at .8% is 40 milligrams activity.

This whole thread is getting absurd.

It is actually being implied that the MAJOR difference between eating 1 gram of Psilocybe cubensis and 2 grams, or 3 grams, is SET and SETTING, not quanity of alkaloids consumed.

There are actually people agreeing with this, and arguing it. 
:eek:


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