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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2638126 - 05/04/04 08:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What is the psilcybine/psilocyn ratio for Psilocybe Cubensis?


What is a Golden Teacher? A cube
what is penis envy?a cube
what is etc etc etc

it may vary somewhat but not enough to label a particular strain of cubensis as most potent-because if there were one,someone would be coming out with a "Super Cube".
:thumbup: :cool:


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Edited by doc34 (05/04/04 08:25 PM)


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2638173 - 05/04/04 08:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Variable, in case you missed most of the facts posted here. You can read over this post again and figure out for yourself. Oh, outside sources do not mean outdoor mushrooms, it means outside the laboratory...

IMO, none of the bioassay tests would be any amount of proof to me, as there are too many variables within the human body, and from person to person. This is not proof, analysis is proof.

I would like to see this done in reverse. Give some people 1-2 grams of Psilocybe Cyanescens, Psilocybe Azurescens, or Panaeolus cyanescens. Tell them they are a very weak mushroom and see what happens. I seriously doubt they will agree they are weak...


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ATWAR]
    #2638195 - 05/04/04 08:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Read the first post!
creepers are cubes,not copes,not azures, not ps cyans.


I'm not going to continue this arguement it has no Merit.
Set and setting=mind games=variables!


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2638233 - 05/04/04 08:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

it is different from STRAIN to STRAIN, and even within the Strain it would vary from mushroom to mushroom.

Strains are variants of a single species growing in the same geographical location or in different geographical locations.

I KNOW THAT SET AND SETTING play a part in determing the effects of the trip. I am not disputing that. I am simply stating that a CUBE is NOT A CUBE. There are differences between each and every Strain in circulation on the OMC, or that can be picked from the wild. There are variants within a single field.

Variation is based on differences not similarites.


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2638237 - 05/04/04 08:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

" I am simply stating that a CUBE is NOT A CUBE."

What the hell are they then?


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2638255 - 05/04/04 08:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

My tone is whatever you imagine it to be.

There is a difference between what we believe, and what we quantify.

There is a difference between how we experience a certain mushroom, and what amount of activity it has been proven to contain, by the best means we have to quantify such things.

Arguing facts to some of you folks is a waste of time. You always take it like an attack. I am not attacking anyone, just the INFORMATION being spewed.

Believe what you wan't. I am still going to attack your bad info with good info, regardless of how it makes me seem. We are trying to make this a place where good info can be obtained.

We quantify differences so that SET and SETTING can be removed from the equation.


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2638259 - 05/04/04 08:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Substrate effect on potency,I would agree!
different growing parameters effect on potency,I agree!
Geological locations effect on potency,Maybe,I agree!

Dont pick me apart people for agreeing that Psilocybe Cubensis grown under the same conditions(ie,substrate,parameters,and location-everything the same)-------will be so close that you would not be able tell the difference in potency unless you were led to believe that because"some one told you so",

Obviuos "Common sense"!

pick someone else to battle with,some people believe parsley and homegrown are the same thing to-but some people are just plain stupid!


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2638260 - 05/04/04 08:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Do you have a link to this research?


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2638264 - 05/04/04 08:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

UH oh,trouble has arrived!lol


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2638289 - 05/04/04 09:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Psilocybe cubensis is Psilocybe cubensis. Psilocybe cubensis GT is not the same as PSilocybe cubensis EQ. They have different amounts of total activity, they have different ratios of active ingredients, they ALSO have different cultural peculiarities, different outward appearances, and different microscopic appearances.

They are different.

The cube is not a cube, was refering to Strain variation.


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2638356 - 05/04/04 09:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Why don't you start with Psilocybin mushrooms of the world.

Just for your information the majority of Scientific information in the world is not on the internet.

Strains still remain strains grown in the exact environmnet, at least for a while. A GT growing side by side with an EQ in the exact same environmnet will have differences that you can see, and quantify.

If you really need more sources then was already linked to by another member in this thread I can give them to you.


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Offlineberto23
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2638431 - 05/04/04 09:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i had a site much better... went into depth about different cubies and others but this is all i got for now

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info9.shtml


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the shnozzberrys taste like shnozzberrys


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Anonymous

Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2638439 - 05/04/04 09:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

A Strain is a population of individuals with a certain genetic makeup. Even within this population the individuals are variable, but certain things remain constant.

Growing ten substrains of a Strain in the exact environmnet, might show a variable range in potency from substrain to substrain and individual to individual. The ratios, and total activity will remain with a range for each STRAIN, and they will be variable from each other. Some strains might produce more PSilocin, versus Psilocybin. Some may produce a maximum of 1 percent total, othersmight produce a maximum of .6 percent total.

Different Strains growing in the same environment come up Different from each other.

GENETICS + Environmnet = final mushroom (phenotype)

You are arguing that

Mushrooms with different genetics + same environmnet= same phenotype.

YOU ARE WRONG. Your world would never exist if what you were saying was true.

What does happen is over time different mushrooms growing in the exact same environmnet might become more similar over time, but only more similar, never exactly the same.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2638516 - 05/04/04 09:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I just want to know what the most potent "strain" is, and what the most potent substrate is.


and if there's enough difference for it to matter.


Is there more variation from one strain/race to another than there is from one mushroom to another of the same strain/race?

and how much real difference does substrate make?


--------------------
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OfflineShorttyd
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Zwieback0]
    #2638606 - 05/04/04 10:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I fed my buddy some dried shitake mushrooms with blue food coloring on them and he swore he was wiggin out. I told him they were fake but he wouldn't believe me. I bought them at the grocery store.


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2638646 - 05/04/04 10:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Psilocybe=Genus?
Cubensis=species?
GT,PE,B+ etc..=Strain?

If I go out in the wild and pick a "NO STRAIN PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS"and I bring it indoors and grow this out via agar,whatever method,and I cultivate this(isolate) "strain" and I label it-"Blazures" does that make it more potent than the one that produced it?

Maybe you are in search of the perfect cube and I think we all are but,the potency is in the substrate,why?I MIGHT be WRONG again,but if you can find the exact ratio required of psilocybe Cubensis for nutrients in order for it to fruit to its maximum(THE ULTIMATE ALIEN SUBSTRATE MIX!!!! So to speak),If you give them every trace nutrient they need to reach maximum production(growth,potency,size,etc,etc),which we cant cause we dont really know what they are,lol,but if we could,then,and only then,would there be a significant and noticeable difference,why?,because no-one has done it yet that I know of(where is this super potent growing substrate?)We cant give them every thing they need to reach that level,(only the shroom god can),given time I'm sure,but not yet!
So we are stuck with the true and tried teks.Now if you take 2 pf tek brf jars-1=creeper,1=Gt, and you fruit these and eat each one(different times)you will not feel a difference in potency!You may think you "feel more"-KEYWORD=think ,but, if you take the same 2 strains and you use rye berries and case them and eat them(at different times)you wont feel a difference between the 2 rye berried jars,but compared to the brf jars,you may(or not)have a noticeable difference in strenght.More nutrients = better mushrooms!
A cube is a cube !


Teonan ,
although your opinion is
"YOU ARE WRONG. Your world would never exist if what you were saying was true."
,is your opinion,and you are entitled to such-Until you can show me proven documentation that there is a superior strain of Psilocybe Cubensis,along with the strain name and a good supplier who has an ass load of them in stock(they'll need them),I really would appreiciate it ,and then You can say "YOU ARE WRONG",until then please keep those remarks to yourself,Thank you!


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OfflineAeolus1369
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: ]
    #2639072 - 05/05/04 12:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think at this point, this thread is getting tangled up in semantics and miscommunications.

FACT:
Because of genetic variability between strains of cubes, different phenotypes will result even if the same substrate is used and they're raised under the same conditions.

What's being argued here is whether the genes affecting psilocybin and psilocin production vary significantly enough to produce a markedly different "psychotropic phenotype."

From an evolutionary standpoint, it makes sense that strains would adapt morphologically to better fit the particular environmental they are in. What's dubious is whether there are any selective pressures on genes regulating psilocybin and psilocin production. It is possible that they are not mutually exclusive (i.e. if psilocybin tends to be produced in a specific part of a mushroom that is more voluminous in a particular strain), but it seems to me that there is no way to design an experiment with any validity to test these theories because a) The psychedelic experience is too subjective and b) Psilocybin and psilocin may not be the only psychotropic agents present (i.e. baeocystin)

--Aeolus


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2639272 - 05/05/04 12:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It did get tangled up a bit eh? What was being said is that your mind plays a significant role in what level of experience you have, and strain does not matter. It's sort of like the placebo effect with a kick in the ass. Two arguments are happening at once here, kinda confusing. But, I will state this again more clearly this time:

I would like to see the original test subjects be given a mushroom of markedly more potency (hence why I mentioned Psilocybe Cyanescens, Psilocybe Azurescens, or Panaeolus cyanescens) with a reversal of the experiment. Give them their regular dose for cubes and tell them these are a bit weaker than the usual cubensis. Do you really think this would work? These people wouldn't know what they were in for...

And for all the cube is a cube fans:
If they are the same, why do different strains have different appearances then? Why do some grow bigger than others, some thicker, etc? Would you not think since there is so much variation in macroscopic appearances that there would be variation in alkaloid production? Honestly, people who think they are all the same obviously need to grow out more strains. As to which is the most potent: How could you possibly test this when it varies from flush to flush, and culture to culture from within the same strain? Bioassay tests are too subjective, you need chemical analysis...

This thread started out good with the mind playing a major role. But then it got ruined by the stupid strain potency argument that will wage forever. I have a friend that every time he tries a new one, they are the best he has ever had. I don?t really notice a difference, but I have had ?weaker than other? batches here and there. Bioassay for potency is way too subjective with too many variables at play?


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: doc34]
    #2639308 - 05/05/04 01:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You guys listen to Teonan ...you might get some really good cult tips  :cool:


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InvisibleZwieback0
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Re: Potency is largely a factor of the mind...Proof inside: [Re: OldSpice]
    #2639343 - 05/05/04 01:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't bother reading the whole thing.

Hypothetically speaking, if you usually reach a level 4 trip when you consume an eigth of cubie mushrooms out of a possible 10 levels, you will not get a level 8 or 10 just because you decided to eat an eigth of a different strain of cubie mushrooms.


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