Home | Community | Message Board


Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: pH Test Strips

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Emotional Blocks to Creativity
    #4029358 - 04/08/05 03:01 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There's a certain form of neurosis from which we can learn a great deal, in breaking into this problem of emotional blockage to creativity [and much more], and which is an understandable kind of thing.
This is the compulsive-obsessive neurosis.

These are rigid and tight people, people who can't play very well. These are people who try to control their emotions and so look rather cold and frozen in the extreme case. They are tense; they are constricted. And these are the people who in a normal state [of course when it's extreme it is a sickness that has to be handled by psychiatrists and psychotherapists] generally tend to be very orderly and very neat and very punctual and very systematic and very controlled and who make excellent bookkeepers, for instance, and so on.
Now these people can be very briefly described in psychodynamic terms as "sharply split," possibly more sharply split than most of the rest of the population, as between what they are conscious of, what they know about themselves, and what's concealed from themselves, what is unconscious or repressed. Split between the conscious and sub/unconscious, in which the latter is said to be the source of primary creativeness.

As we learn more about these people, and learn something about the reasons for the repressions, we are also learning that these reasons obtain for all of us in a lesser degree, and so again we've learned from the extreme case something about the more average and the more normal. These people have to be this way. They have no alternative. They have no choice. This is the only way in which such a person can achieve safety, order, lack of threat, lack of anxiety, that is via orderliness, predictability, control and mastery. These desirable goals are all made possible for him by these particular techniques. The "new" is threatening for such a person, but nothing new can happen to him if he can order it to his past experience, if he can freeze the world of flux, that is, if he can make believe nothing is changing. If he can proceed into the future on the basis of "well-tried" laws and rules, habits, modes of adjustment which have worked in the past, and which he will insist on using in the future, then he feels safe and he doesn't feel anxious.

Why does he have to do this? What's he afraid of? The answer is - in very general terms - that he is afraid of his emotions, or of his deepest instinctual urges, or his deepest self, which he desperately represses. He's got to! Or else he feels he'll go crazy. This internal drama of fear and defense is within one man's skin, but it tends by this man to be generalized, projected outward on the whole world, and he is then apt to see the whole world in this fashion. What he's really fighting off are dangers within himself, but then anything that reminds him of or resembles these dangers within himself, he fights in the external world whenever he sees them. He fights against his own impulses to disorderliness by becoming extra orderly. And he will be threatened by disorderliness in the world because it reminds him, or threatens him with this revolution from the suppressed, from within. Anything that dangers this control; anything that strengthens either the dangerous hidden impulses, or else weakens the defensive walls, will frighten and threaten this kind of person.

Much is lost by this kind of process. Of course he can gain a kind of equilibrium. Such a man can live his life out without cracking up. He can hold things under control. It is a desperate effort at control. A good deal of his energy is taken up with it and so he is apt to get tired just simply controlling himself. It is a source of fatigue. But he can manage, and get along by protecting himself against the dangerous portions of his unconscious, or against his unconscious self, or his real self, which he has been taught to regard as dangerous. He must wall off everything unconscious.
There is a fable of an ancient tyrant who was hunting somebody who had insulted him. He knew this someone was walled up in a certain town, so he ordered every man in that town to be killed, just to be sure that the one person wouldn't get away. The compulsive-obsessive does something like that. He kills off and walls off everything unconscious in order to be sure that the dangerous portions of it don't get out.

What I'm leading up to is that out of this unconscious, out of this deeper self, out of this portion of ourselves of which we generally are afraid and therefore try to keep under control, out of this comes the ability to play - to enjoy - to fantasy - to laugh - to loaf - to be spontaneous, and, what's most important for us here, creativity, which is a kind of intellectual play, which is a kind of permission to be ourselves, to fantasy, to let loose, and to be crazy, privately. [Every really new idea looks crazy, at first.]
The compulsive-obsessive gives up his primary creativeness. He gives up the possibilities for being artistic. He gives up his poetry. He gives up his imagination. He drowns all his healthy childishness.

The best real life example of a compulsive-obsessive was this particular man in his elderly years. He was a man who very characteristically saved things. He had all the newspapers that he had ever read, bound by weeks. I think each week was bound with a little red string, and then all the papers of the month would be put together and tied with a yellow string. His wife told me that he had a regular breakfast every day. Monday was orange juice, Tuesday was oatmeal, and Wednesday was prunes, and so on, and God help her if there were prunes on Monday. He saved his old razor blades. He had all his old razor blades saved and packaged nicely with labels on them. I remember that he labeled everything, as such people will do. He had everything organized, and then put little stickers on them.

This compulsive-obsessive kind of man can?t play. He can?t let go. Such a man tends to avoid parties for instance because he?s so sensible and you?re supposed to be a little silly at a party. Such a man is afraid to get a little tight because then his controls loosen up too much and for him this is a great danger. He has to be in control all the time. Such a person will probably make a horrible subject for hypnosis. He will probably get frightened by being anesthetized, or by any other loss of full consciousness. These are people who try to be dignified, orderly, conscious, rational at a party, where you are not supposed to be.
Now this is what I mean when I say that the person who is comfortable enough with his unconscious is able to let go that much anyhow ? a little crazy in this party sense; to be silly, to play along with a gag, and to enjoy it; and to enjoy being nutty for a little while anyhow. This is like a conscious, voluntary regression ? instead of trying to be dignified and controlled at all times. [I don?t know why this comes to mind: It?s about one person who is described as ?strutting,? even when he is sitting on a chair.?]

This kind of primary creativeness that has been described here which comes out of the unconscious is very probably a heritage of every human being. It is a common and universal kind of thing. Certainly it is found in all healthy children. It is the kind of creativeness that any healthy child had and which is then lost by most people as they grow up.

One example in which we all have probably experienced ourselves, is in dreams. You know that in our dreams, we can be an awful lot more creative than we are in waking life. We can be more clever, and wittier, and bolder, and more original, and so on and so on.
With the lid taken off, we find generally more creativeness than appears to the naked eye.
General experience therefore is that psychotherapy or getting down to these deeper layers which are ordinarily repressed, will release a common heritage ? something that we have all had ? and that was lost.


That?s all folks.




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4029399 - 04/08/05 03:31 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Nice inspired post as usual.

What of those that just don't choose to indulge in such acts of behavior? Is it a necessary to qualify people to the extent that we must achieve a state of what is considered by others to be "normalacy"?

What of those that just don't like it... in cases of Asperger's syndrome, and in cases of Shcizoid type personalities for example. Not all people desire, nor need to express themselves to the extent others do, I don't think it's necessarily repression persay. Perhaps it is their state, and others just deem it as such for they lack the understanding of the individual with said "symptoms/disorders".

Some people require 8 hours of sleep, other more, others less... it isn't up to us to suggest what is indeed a "normal" amount of sleep. Rather, IMO it should be first up to the individual to determine what is normal for them... perhaps such an expression of said repression isn't normal for them, not out of hiding/running from something, but instead they see it as acting as they don't percieve the need to express themselves as others do.

All and all, I've looked for a normal model of human functioning in the past... I've come to the conclusion that it is non-existant... but also that it is a a blessing that their isn't such a model, (beyond what is imposed/suggested) as our perceptions, actions and our expressions is what makes us unique... not our attempts at achieving a unifrom template. :borg:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4030135 - 04/08/05 11:15 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That was a cool read Skorp! :thumbup:

A neighbor, my dad, and ex-sister in law "sort of" fit that bill. I say sort of only because I have seen them loosen up on a handful of occasions. Ironically, my dads current job is accounting, my ex sis in law is an accountant and the neighbor also has a degree in accounting. When their other traits matched for the most part and you said they make good book keepers, I laughed!

I wanted to touch on something Psychoactive said about how they repress emotion. No kidding when they are cold they are cold as ice. With all 3, when something does NOT go down on schedule or as planned  and when they realize they are not in control of the situation, you do not want to see the repressed emotion that becomes released. If I were them and experienced that, I would be afraid of my emotions too.

Skorp, do you really think it is some sort of chemical imbalance that just makes them that way or do you think there was some form of early child hood conditioning that lead to emotional repression to cope which lead to the body changing its chemical structure to help the person cope in that manor?

Even if you don't know for sure, I'm just curious to hear your opinion. Thanks!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethe_phoenix
Stranger

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4030184 - 04/08/05 11:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Nice post. I have much experience with people like that, unfortunately. I think it all just starts with one wrong turn, one thing that you get held up on, and from there it just snowballs. Because as you repress your subconscious is always trying to talk to you, so you have to repress that, too. So repression progressively escalates and becomes an addiction. It all starts at the fundamental choice of acceptance or denial. When you choose denial then until you correct that, everything else must be denied, to support the original denial. So everything can get hung up on a small misunderstanding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4030198 - 04/08/05 11:42 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

for what it is worth...

the dadaists and later the surrealists (lead by theorist Andre Breton) believed that creativity is blocked by rational thought. The point was the circumvent this filter with automatic writing, tapping into dreams, artistic methods that allow chance, and praising art created by children and the insane.

http://www.geocities.com/lmc2124/breton.html#manifesto


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefresh313
journeyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4030343 - 04/08/05 12:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Skorp, do you really think it is some sort of chemical imbalance that just makes them that way or do you think there was some form of early child hood conditioning that lead to emotional repression to cope which lead to the body changing its chemical structure to help the person cope in that manor?

Even if you don't know for sure, I'm just curious to hear your opinion. Thanks!




ill take a shot at it jiggy,
any thinking pattern has the ability to change the chemical structure
likewise a change in chemical structure has the ability to change thinking patterns
once the thinking pattern changes the chemical structure or the chemical structure changes the thinking pattern or some complex interplay back and forth an equilibrium is reached. this equilibrium is a much stabler state and therefore requires much more force to change than an unblanced state where the reinforcement is only one sided.
when the thought process is interrupted and changed the equilibrium is broken and the chemical structure will adapt accordingly. vice versa


Edited by fresh313 (04/08/05 12:44 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: fresh313]
    #4030494 - 04/08/05 01:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks fresh! What you said is also my opinion on it. I was curious to hear what Skorps is or what he had to add that part of it since, he brought it up.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: Vvellum]
    #4030532 - 04/08/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Beat.

"I saw the best minds of my generation..." :wink:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethe_phoenix
Stranger

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: dorkus]
    #4032340 - 04/08/05 09:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Woops, the body of my reply was targetted at you, gettinjiggywithit. :smile: But never mind now that I read it over it misses the question.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4032700 - 04/09/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

do you really think it is some sort of chemical imbalance that just makes them that way or do you think there was some form of early child hood conditioning that lead to emotional repression to cope which lead to the body changing its chemical structure to help the person cope in that manor?

I think in general, it's all of the above, however in detail it becomes more specific in emphasis of one or two main factors.

What is the more common factor conducive to such neurosis? Probably environmental factors. This includes the collective psyche of the culture one is submersed in, the dynamics of localized society, the functionality [or lack thereof] of one's family and one's interpersonal relationships with others.

Take the stereotypical [and all stereotypes do have some kernel of truth behind them] example of the man who is threatened by softness, fantasy, emotion, "childishness". He has the horrible fear of anything that he would call "femininity," "femaleness," which we immediately call "homosexual." If he's been brought up in a tough environment, "feminine" means practically everything that's creative: Imagination, fantasy, color, poetry, music, tenderness, languishing, being romantic, in general, are walled off as dangerous to one's picture of one's own masculinity. Everything that's called "weak" tends to be repressed in the normal masculine adult adjustment. And many things are called weak which we are learning are not weak at all.

How do you get these two worlds, the psychic world and the world of reality, to be comfortable with each other? I would like to leave this as an open-ended question with no definitive answer. [Why not treat all major life-questions in the same manner?] I could answer - in general - that such a healthy integration; a unification, is achieved through a matter of slow confrontation. Self-knowledge, in short. The conscious must become strong enough to dare friendliness with the enemy.

A fair parallel can be found in the relations between men and women throughout history. Men have been afraid of women and have therefore dominated them, unconsciously, for very much the same reasons I believe that they have been afraid of their primary processes. Women will remind men of their own unconscious, that is of theri own femaleness, their own softness, their own tenderness, and so on. And therefore fighting women or trying to control them or to derogate them has been part of this effort to control these unconscious forces which are within everyone of us. Between a frightened master and a resentful slave no true love is possible.
Only as men become strong enough, self-confident enough, and integrated enough can they tolerate and finally enjoy self-actualizing women, women who are full human beings. But no man fulfills himself without such a woman, in principle. Therefore strong men and strong women are the condition of each other, for neither can exist without the other. They are also the cause of the other, because women grow men and men grow women. And finally, of course, they are the reward of each other. If you are a good enough man, that's the kind of woman you'll get and that's the kind of woman you'll deserve. Call me hilariously innocent, but that's the way it is in my book.

Anyway, all of this amounts up to the point of dichotomy transcendance. We are becoming quite sure that the integrated person, the fully evolved human, the fully matured person, must be available to himself at both these levels, simultaneously. Certainly it is now obsolete to stigmatize this unconscious side of human nature as sick rather than healthy. That's the way Freud thought of it originally but we have learned differently. We have learned that complete health means being available to yourself at all levels. We can no longer call this side "evil" rather than "good," lower rather than higher, selfish rather than unselfish, beastly rather than human.
No longer can we dichotomize ourselves into a cave man and a civilized man, into a devil and a saint. We can now see this as an illegitimate dichotomy, an illegitimate "either/or," in which by the very process of splitting and dichotomizing we create a sick "either" and a sick "or", that is to say, a sick conscious and a sick unconscious, a sick rationality and sick impulses.

Once we transcend and resolve this dichotomy, once we can put these two together into the unity in which they are originally, for instance, in the healthy child, in the healthy adult, or in specially creative people, then we can recognize that the dichotomizing or the splitting is itself a pathological process.
And then it becomes possible for one's civil war to end.






--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Like Nuclear Fission Chips, this splitting may just be a tool yes; and a toy? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4586664 - 08/27/05 06:12 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

This type of self control and suppression; Im a painter I paint some pretty crazy shit when I'm all stoned; this one painting took 8 joints and 34 hours only like breaks to roll the joints and eat 2 bowls of oats; btw how do I put a gif in my post like you? Never painted on shrooms though did after shrooms. But other than that Im a real Hitler; of course its more of a caricature, but even the caricature is pretty mean, but in a mocking kind of way; but if I didn't have a little Hitler in me, well then I would still be a fat little turd today like I was most of my life, Garfield was my hero, and I ate shitloads of lasagne. This splitting is a tool; of course for me it has become a toy; a very useful toy, or a playful tool, a tool and a toy. Of course the human mind will soon be lost if considered merely a toy. Applying this control creatively is really what gives you the power to be creative; if there was no control you would become pretty dumb. I nkow people who have no control, and I can tell you they can't develop any skills or abilities, they can just goof off and that's about all they can do...which Im sort of jealous off but I realise I can clearly see that it will not bring any positive results except in itself and being like that, but its dangerous to be just goofy and have no rules. Later they realise that it was all just hot air. So yes of course both are properties , or maybe the limits on the 'opposing' ends of a spectrum that inverts at the middle all its properties. In order to exist at that cusp is a most dynamic state of being, where tangent properties emerge and the possibility for character is born.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Like Nuclear Fission Chips, this splitting may just be a tool yes; and a toy? [Re: Shampioenier]
    #4586668 - 08/27/05 06:19 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

free your control, and control your freedom. thats the only way you can really paint anything...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4587125 - 08/27/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

out of this portion of ourselves of which we generally are afraid and therefore try to keep under control, out of this comes the ability to play - to enjoy - to fantasy - to laugh - to loaf - to be spontaneous




and to suffer


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePmog
I's

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 61
Loc: (No)r(way)
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4587173 - 08/27/05 01:21 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

NLP


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,185
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4587922 - 08/27/05 06:04 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

reminded me of a dead kennedys song i haven't heard in a good decade, but went like "you're a wealthy scientist
you only talk in facts
you know you're always right
because you know how to prove it step by step
ph d to show you smart
n text book formulas

(ya da da da something something )

something is wrong here
you won't find it on a shelf
you're healthy you're wealthy
you're tied to a wrack!

when you you snap
when will you snap
when you open your eyes open your eyes!


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,185
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Emotional Blocks to Creativity [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #4587937 - 08/27/05 06:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

actually i just recalled a verse that was about going to the company parties to jockey for position


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: pH Test Strips

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* . soulcircus 479 2 07/14/06 03:07 PM
by dblaney
* Creativity vs Reality deepr 617 8 12/15/05 12:09 PM
by psyka
* Emotional Vulnerability
( 1 2 all )
gettinjiggywithit 2,053 22 01/08/05 02:16 PM
by incubaby_421
* Do schools kill creativity?
( 1 2 3 all )
elbisivni 3,085 48 04/28/08 05:24 PM
by redgreenvines
* . soulcircus 841 13 05/20/06 06:21 AM
by WIZOLZ
* The link between empathy and an individual's creative, imaginative potential spud 658 5 03/01/06 04:26 PM
by gettinjiggywithit
* Emotions
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Droz 5,765 100 06/19/07 09:24 PM
by Booby
* Emotions are not so good?
( 1 2 3 all )
Icelander 4,029 47 06/10/05 10:18 PM
by gettinjiggywithit

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
907 topic views. 4 members, 2 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
MRCA Tyroler Gluckspilze
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.132 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.