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Invisiblebandaid
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Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 340
How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions?
    #3016237 - 08/18/04 01:23 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

(not sure if this belongs in SP forum but oh well)

note: in some instances of this post a bad thought or emotion can be replaced with a good thought or emotion and be understood in the same way, please keep that in mind, if you indulge in the good too much it can eventualy turn into bad

If you decide you learned all that you could from a thought or strand of thoughts but the they keep coming back with the unpleasant/stressfull emotion to remind you again about the "solved" problem, what do you find yourself doing to bypass this problem?.

For example if something pops into my mind about some previouse/current unpleasant thought or emotion, I start thinking about it before I can even decide whether I want to think about it, which is normal I assume because your subconscious is simply alerting you, making you conscious to whatever thought or emotion to see if theres any valuable information to be obtained, then after I assume is when you decide what to do with it. This however makes me wonder if you can decide not to think of something without ever becoming conscious of it, something like inbetween the realm of your conscious and subconscious or just a memory note that you give your subconscious saying "dont ever bother going there". But thats where the problem lies with me, if I learned and decided what I want out of it but it keeps persisting, what can I do?.

Here are some of my own ideas on courses of action to take. (what comes to mind is does the mind function purely on distraction?)

a) think of anything aslong as its unrelated to the bad thought/emotion
b) try to empty your mind and become completely relaxed
c) concentrate on your 'certainty' of what you want to and not want to think and/or feel (though Im not really sure what exactly you would be concentraiting on, its almost like saying your certainty is an "object" when there is none, perhaps theres an emotion attached to it that you can concentrate on, or perhaps your certainty is just an emotion derived from intuition)

So what do you do?, thx in advance.


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3016359 - 08/18/04 01:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think about things that upset me at all. Some people say its therapeutic to deal with bad thoughts but it just makes me feel all bad. I go for option A all the time. Works wonders.


--------------------
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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3017156 - 08/18/04 07:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I try to accept and watch the thought until it passes,

(if possible without becoming the thought; however if a release of emotion is necessary I do not block that)

or something like that........


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3017292 - 08/18/04 10:01 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

mind works by resonance - association
body can approach or run away from emerging events
mind only resonates (mind only gets closer - it has zero ability to run away or stop the resonating - that only creates more associated resonating)
then the next thing arizes.

practicing meditation one learns to permit arizing, and not to move closer - (sometimes called keeping still)
practicing meditation one learns that arizing is natural too, unpreventable even - and a refuge becomes that arizing too

I wrote the following for my daughter who is bothered much by persistent loops.

poem:

The Cheshire cat appears ? How ODD!
Wanting him to act normally
Has no effect - & the maybe menacing grin...

Wanting him to leave, or being fascinated alike about it.
Make him persist in his charm all the more.

Wanting him to stay while he is Fading goes against nature.

We know this is mind working as usual.
But if he is a cat how does he do that?

Sudden approaching even if I run away.
But we know it is mind associating,
Mind's direction is only to approach or allow fading.

Not a cat. That is your own fading grin


Edited by redgreenvines (08/18/04 10:09 AM)


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Invisiblebandaid
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #3017493 - 08/18/04 11:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

interesting read, you seem to know alot about this stuff and I enjoy reading from your posts, though I have to admit you can be HELLA confusing just incase no one has told you yet :grin:


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OfflineGrav
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3018407 - 08/18/04 03:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I used to have a severe problem with relentless re-occuring thoughts.

im not sure what advice to give, but you should really make steps to assume control over yourself.  Realize that you are not bound to those thoughts, and that it is O.K. to not think them.  They serve no purpose and are waiting to be banished.

find the activity you want to focus on.
that will probably help.

thinking about how you can try to stop thinking about things will NOT help. :smile:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3018671 - 08/18/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What you resist persists and what you look at dissapears. The action of avoiding and blocking stuff only feeds it energy and makes it larger. That's what turns mole hills into mountains and makes the one monkey on your back turn into a dozen.

I caught the problem in your methodogy. May I highlight it for your consideration. You said that the subconscious brings stuff to the surface to get your attention. So far so good. And then you said from there, it's up to you to decide if it has any meaning to you or not. Thats where the ego, that avoided and blocked the stuff in the first place by shoving it into the subconscious steps in again to do it all over AGAIN. It'll keep resurfacing until you stop shoving and stuffing it back down through dismisals and rejection.

Your sub consconscious and super conscious know more about you and why you are here then your ego conscious does. If it is bringing something to the surface wanting you to pay attention to it then it has meaning. There is no deciding if it does or not, only uncovering what the meaning is.

You say that sometimes you replace bad feelings with good ones and that it works for a while. Well, if bad feelings come up related to a nasty argument you had with a close friend a year ago and you replace those feelings with thoughts of going fishing or doing something you enjoy, yes, you will feel better for the moment, but it'll keep coming up until you make peace with the argument that is troubling you. When the bad feelings come up, replacing them is the key, however, they must be replaced with the positive affirmation relative to the cause of the bad feeling.

Maybe the argument bugs you because you think you were a real jerk from hindsight. The ego thinks you are great and right so it dismisses the bad feelings. The subconscious says you are really feeling bad for stuff said and done in the heat of the moment. The replacment feeling is one of self forgiveness, allowance and acceptance. The affirmations would run like this;

I was allowed to make a mistake and I forgive myself for it.
I am a decent person who knows how to be kind and considerate of others etc. You get the idea.

This has been Facing Your Demons 101 class.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/18/04 04:26 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3018971 - 08/18/04 05:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bandaid said:
interesting read, you seem to know alot about this stuff and I enjoy reading from your posts, though I have to admit you can be HELLA confusing just incase no one has told you yet :grin:




I spella pretty c onfusing
but my ideas about mind are a way lot simpler than
proposing
ego
super-ego
unconscious
id
etc. all with some spooky interconnections.

I give you mind as a vibratory association engine.
(like a reactive tape recorder with like immediate random access - it's holographic media access is even better than digital)
Add energy to the vibration and you get more associations (the problem above).
Elongate the fadeout of vibrations and you get more stoned (entheogen effect) from the overlapping of moments.

supremely simple

it is scientific and consistent with concept of citta and abhidhamma.
The idea of citta (mind moments) is consistent with personality as a sequence of masks, and run those masks together (like a movie) it seems to be a consistent moving "image" of a being or "ego"...

again, this is the whole thing
it is pretty simple.
we know where we been
we are discovering where we are and we have
no clue really where we are going.


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OfflineJourney
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3019003 - 08/18/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have loads of experience with recurring negative thoughts, If you can give us some details about what the thoughts are I will be able to help more, though I'm sure if you're anything like me and my negative thoughts that you wouldn't want to talk about them.

I've had periods of my life where I would be stuck in a thoughtloop for a good 30% of my total conscious thought, this going on for days and days will plant this thought almost permantently in your mind. It's like your strengthening the roots of the thought. Mine stemmed from an insecurity and vulnerability that I had with myself, that someone had planted in my brain on purpous because they had the same problem as I have just learned. Though recently I confronted the problem head-on after this thought made me crazy in a bad trip, and whenever I try to bring back the negative thought, my mind has already blocked it out because the issue has been solved! I have no room to even consider the thought anymore because it does not exhist in my mind anymore. Feels good to be free

If you can find the roots of your problems and face them you will be good. Theres also a technique that I used to use while meditating to keep a clear thoughtless mind that I call thought-block. Whenever i would think a thought I would say to myself "thought-block" and that would remind me to stop thinking and go back to a mental calm. After a while this tool will be firmly planted in your mind and it only takes the slightest effort to use it. I don't even have to think about it before I use it because I know its there in my mind and I so familiar with it.


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OfflineJourney
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3019032 - 08/18/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

something like inbetween the realm of your conscious and subconscious or just a memory note that you give your subconscious saying "dont ever bother going there".




Yes I know exactly what you mean. There is s problem in your mind that is not resolved and until it is resolved the smallest memory or reminder will trigger the thought patterns. The issue is a big deal because you make it a big deal. You have to make either the logical commection that the problem does not exhist or you have to prove it to yourself in some way, then you will have your "memory note"


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3019186 - 08/18/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

many of us are unhappy because we are trying to find enough security, sex, pleasant sensations, ego rushes, prestige, money, power and status. this struggle yields lives of constant resentment, worry, suspicion, anger, jealousy, shyness, and fear. most people tell themselves tjeu must do to be happy ends up yielding more frustration than joy. the more sucessful a person is in making money, collective skills and possessions, aquring knowledge and degrees, and achieving positions of status, power, and prestige, the less loving peaceful, and contented they may find themselves.

And yet it is not these things in and of themselves that create an unhappy life, it is the internal mental feeling about the desires for them that minute by minute keeps one from enjoying life 99% of the time. Addictions (or emotional backed demands) bring fear of non-fullfillment; jealousy that someone may steal our source of fullfillment, anger when someone twarts us; cynicism if constantly undersupplied; paranoia if constantly threatened; boredom if we're making no progress towards statisfying our addictions (emotional backed demands); worry if we can't see the steady supply; anxiety if we;re worried about being worried; and unhappiness when the outside world does not supply is with whatever we are addicted to. since commons snese tells us that the way things go in life is that you win some and you lose some, an addicted person has no chance of living a happy life over 90% of the time( ie being loving, peaceful, wise and effective.) And the addictive programming is not necessary to find and enjoy that which we prefer in life.

we will be ready for this type of growth into a constant supply of happiness when you realize the utter futility of trying to live a beautiful life by your efforts to rearrange or change the world of people and things outside of you to fit your emotional backed demands. we will find time and again, that you have to rearrange your own personal responses to life situations...things that we learned in our childhood that was nessary so we survive in our younger years.

as we start growing, we will find that we have always had enough to be happy. it is the patters in our heads that make us unhappy, although we tend to blame the pole and conditions outside of us for our unhappiness.

this does not require you to detach yourself from your present life. serenity can be used most efficiently if we stay with our current business and personal life. once we understand this system thoroughly, you won't need a teacher. our lives will be the best teacher for we will discover that we are always putting ourselves in learning situtions that are ideal for growth. the programming that we must changew has an unerring way of putting us into life situations that can make us aware of the exact inner work we need to do. this will add to the enjoyment of life all around.

think of all the energy we put now into the up and down hour by hour coping with our feelings will contiually trying to rearrange the people and situations in our lives so that we can be loving, effective, and happy. and yet year by year our quest may be as elusive as ever. since almost everyone around us has trouble in boming happy 95% of the time, we may have lowered our standards and decided that continuous happiness is probably not realistic. let's get rid of this notion and up our standards, after all, we are worth it!

Most of us assume that our desires (backed up by emotional feelings) are true guides to doing the things that will make us happy. but yet no one has yet to find happiness by using emotional backed demands as guides. flashes of pleasure...sure, happiness...no.

our wants and desires are so seductive...they are thought of as needs that must be satisfied so we can be happy at last. we tell ourselves "if I can jsut become president of this compnay, or if I jsut make this much money, I will be happy." It is fine to aquire these positions, and to aquire money, but it may be misleading to expect it to bring us peace, love and happiness. "if only..." so we search for these external situations, we trust in them, but we all know life doesn't go our way half of the time.

our negative emotions are a misleading result of an extensive pattern of scars we have experienced. again, uhhappines through repetition. we haven't had the chance yet to understand and love on a continuous basis..so we think it's not possible. it is how we have dealt with emotions that lead us to percieve differences that make us uptight, instead of similarities that enable us to understand and love. we percive other people and situations as threats when we rely on the external world and situations for our happiness. we respond with adrenaline, faster heartbeat, increase in blood sugar, and other jungle survival responses that prepare us for fight or flight.

think about some of the threatening situations you have felt in the last day or two. are you going to lose your job? is the person for whom you feel the most love paying attention to somone else than you? do you have unpaid bills that you cannot take care of? now these problems euther have solutions or they don't. either you can do something about them now, or you can't. if you can do something about it, then do it, even if it's jsut a first step. don't dwell on the situation, yes think about it, but not dwell, this doesn't lead to getting th problem fixed. if you are in the process of fixing it, but it'll take some time, stop dwelling while you're doing it. if you are doing what you can, then feeling negative about it doesn't help, it just hurts your mind, the body, and possibly the situation. you energy will be drained when you are worried or axious about a problem. do what you can do, but don't be addicted to the results or else you will creat more worry. if you can't do anything about it right now, then why make yourself uncomfartable about it, save that energy for when you CAN do something about it. these negative emotions in non life threatening situations jsut lowers insight and effectiveness of our actions.

if you do not hassel yourself emotionally when the outside world doesn't fit your demads (as it often does) you will be much more joyous, and really appreciate each moment of you life. we need to learn to flow with the people and things around us, because after all, we are all different, and no one is going to conform jsut for you. since we are conscious beings, the only thing we need to find happiness in life is to perceive clealy who we are, and what exactly are the real conditions.


so really it's not what happens but how you feel about it. try and not impose your will on reality because after all, you win some and you lose some, and depedning on "what happens" for your happiness will just yield more frustration than joy.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblebandaid
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3020486 - 08/18/04 10:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

That was a great read thx kaiowas :thumbup:. From reading that and comparing it to my life I can say that this was one of the most enlightening way of thinking while dealing with most or all situations, which is explained over and over in your post.

don't be addicted to the results or else you will creat more frustration, just be happy your dealing with the problem


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emoti [Re: bandaid]
    #3020649 - 08/18/04 11:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

DO NOT attempt to block persistant bad thoughts and emotions. They are a warning sign that something needs tending to. Instead try to rresolve your outstanding issues.


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Invisiblebandaid
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3021808 - 08/19/04 03:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Redgreenvines whats your definition of the entheogen effect?, not a strict definition but just your vague one for the explanation you gave above, just so I can understand that part a little better.

Journey thx for the great advice. Btw when you say "thought-block" is that out-loud or in your head?. Like at first you say it out-loud then you stopped saying it out-loud once it stood on your memory well enough and then you just had to think of the word and then maybe after a while you dont even think of the word just the concept of doing it and it works?.

Is that how you go about it? :confused:.


Edited by bandaid (08/19/04 06:13 AM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3021890 - 08/19/04 04:12 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I was learned (I don't remember from where) about the "3-second rule".

The 3-second rule suggests that the human brain, if you relax and let thoughts flow, will only hold on to a thought for approximately 3 seconds.

So if a thought comes into your brain, like "I really want to smoke a cigarette" when you want to quit, just wait a few seconds and let your mind flow and the thought will fade away and a new thought will take its place.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emoti [Re: bandaid]
    #3021939 - 08/19/04 04:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

In my experience, desire causes the persistent thoughts. Give up desire, and your mind becomes at rest. Don't desire to give up desire, simply just relax, go with the flow of the cosmos and your mind will follow. It is living in a constant meditation, once your mind becomes accustomed to it


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How do you block and avoid persistant thoughts and emotions? [Re: bandaid]
    #3022391 - 08/19/04 09:29 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

entheogen effect is prolongation of the fading of events in the brain
as frog says, it is natural for a thought or impulse to fade
I like her 3 second rule a lot.

anyway under effect of enthoegen
a mind event will persist beyond it's normal span (i.e. it will fade more slowly), and new ones will continue to arise.

the mind space will become richer with layered co-existence of mind events, producing effects like:
visual trails, glows, chiascuro and fractals, auditory echoes, time travel, reliving of memory, and dejavue - and even multiple selves as well as voices, body tugs etc.

e.g. with very strong salvia the fadeout is so long that the thick layering of mental content seems entirely jammed, no-one can remember what was happenning in such a layered state : hence it is called the amnesiac state - too rich to decode or make any associations.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: BLOCKING IS NOT BLOCKING [Re: bandaid]
    #3035479 - 08/22/04 07:21 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)


ppl are not really blocking thoughts when they say they are, they are acting it out. they may even believe they are doing mental karate, but it is an illusion. a memory replay, body memories adding to the power of the obsessions, creating new associations that keep the opposition to the event.

One need not oppose any mental event. such events arise and pass of their own accord.

ppl can learn routines and masks and can replay them, as the mind is a terrific learning machine which can replay amazingly well.

but people can also practice positive routines in every sphere of life, and can reflect sometimes in a very considered way about which routines to practice so that when they replay these routines, the result is more conducive to a better life for all.

to practice such meditation, to be aware of what is in the mind now, what is happenning now is very good. it leads to awareness of what is happenning in the moment:
is it eye consciousness ?
is it body consciousness ?
etc.
there are 6 types: eye, body, ear, taste, smell, memory.
and combinations are normal
consciousness is flowing from one to the other normally.

to ponder the elements that make up the universe is good too.

any of these good habits can be revisited to positively counter the debilitation that an unrully thought or habit generates, and can eventually tame the worst dragons that can arise.


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Invisible2dogs
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Re: BLOCKING IS NOT BLOCKING [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3035583 - 08/22/04 08:53 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I used to drink


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Invisiblebandaid
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Re: BLOCKING IS NOT BLOCKING [Re: 2dogs] * 2
    #3035648 - 08/22/04 09:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:drunk: you ok man? I think you got the wrong forum :smirk:


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