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OfflineJon
Registered: 06/28/03
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How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution?
    #3747544 - 02/07/05 10:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

In the act of courtship in the prehistoric world, it would probably concidered rape. The male ape is horny and gets it off with some random female ape and runs off. Female ape is pregnant. Female ape has no idea whats going on, cant understand the changes in her body. Female ape sees her belly gettin bigger, she pokes it, sleeps on it, but it would never go away. One day female ape starts feeling pain and starts screaming. Other apes look at her but ignore her and continue to play with stones. Female ape begins to get extremely sweaty and starts freaking out because she thinks something inside her is trying to kill her. I dont really know what happens next because I dont know what happens to a woman who has to deliver a baby by herself. But there I can assume the female ape would start beating her stomach and end up killing herself and her baby. This is one of those stories people use to make fun of evolution. But if you think about it, its hilarious. How on earth did we learn how to deliver babies?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Jon]
    #3747596 - 02/07/05 10:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

""How on earth did we learn how to deliver babies? ""

by doing it?  :confused: :thumbup:

Sub note: not that i 'assume anything', just made an 'observation', and feel like asking; if we descended from apes, why are the apes, still here?


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Edited by Gomp (02/07/05 10:30 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Jon]
    #3747726 - 02/07/05 10:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)


That "knowledge" came gradually into the genes of the apes from the days of early mammals from the dinosaur age, and the basis of the birth instinct is even older, it's from the days of early fish that lived in seas that were carrying eggs.

And not ever sex in animal world is a rape. Many species have females that are capable of defending themselfs, or even killing the male, so it's not like they just sit there and scream for help. In fact females seduce the males, or vice versa. Sex is moslty voluntary in animal world. It is voluntary because the evolution benefits from the fact that both male and female want each other which means they both want each others genes. That way best genes go with best genes.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Gomp]
    #3747733 - 02/07/05 10:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, all those cats and dogs and birds and monkeys and apes (!!) and fish and ... well, ALL those animals in the wild, they don't seem to be smashing the shit out of their own bellies when they're in labour... in fact, I have a hunch that such behaviour would be extremely mal-adaptive for the transmission of genetic data to future generations.

how do animals 'learn' to forage for food, or find suitable places for nests or shelters? it's not really 'learning' as we define the term, instead it's instinctual. by my way of thinking, instincts are what isn't mal-adaptive for genetic transmission.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3748000 - 02/07/05 11:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:

That "knowledge" came gradually into the genes of the apes from the days of early mammals from the dinosaur age, and the basis of the birth instinct is even older, it's from the days of early fish that lived in seas that were carrying eggs.

And not ever sex in animal world is a rape. Many species have females that are capable of defending themselfs, or even killing the male, so it's not like they just sit there and scream for help. In fact females seduce the males, or vice versa. Sex is moslty voluntary in animal world. It is voluntary because the evolution benefits from the fact that both male and female want each other which means they both want each others genes. That way best genes go with best genes.




Quote:

Beyond male and female

While two types of sex cells exist - sperm and eggs - it is more difficult to sort individuals into these binary classes. Several species have more than just male and female genders, where gender is defined as the body and sexual behavior of an individual.

In some species, an individual's body may be difficult to classify as male or female. Most plants and some fish are hermaphrodites - capable of producing eggs and sperm. Some lizards are unisexual. There are no male whiptail lizards, and females will mount each other, prompting hormonal changes that result in cell division - a true ''virgin birth.''

A single individual also may switch from male to female or vice versa and back again - that is, may switch from producing sperm to producing eggs - due to a change in hormones triggered by external circumstances. In any coral reef, for example, about 25 percent of the fish have changed sex in their lifetime. Over 50 species of angelfish, wrasses, parrot fishes and groupers have changed from male to female or vice versa. Other invertebrates, such as shrimp and oysters, also may change sex.

''Gender can be surprisingly labile,'' says Bob Warner, who was among the first to study sex-changing fish in the 1970s. ''The young themselves may develop as one sex or the other, depending on the environment in which they find themselves. And individuals may function first as one sex, then another, over the course of their lives, and the change can be socially controlled.''

For instance, if the sole male is removed from a group of cleaning wrasse, the largest female will start to behave like a male within hours. Within 10 days she - now he - will produce sperm.

Behavior is not tied to one's chromosomes, either - many species have three or more genders. For instance, bluegill sunfish have two different male genders - ''parental'' males who control territory and mate with females, and ''end-runner'' males, who are smaller with different coloring. End-runners will dart in and release sperm where a female and parental male are mating.





..  :sun:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Jon]
    #3748016 - 02/07/05 11:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well, assuming we evolved from the apes, our instincts and genetic programming can be thanked for much of our 'mysterious know-how'. I suppose then, the real question arises when we trace our evolutionary background all the way to the very first, earliest biological forms of the specific "family tree" that we - the homo sapien - are descendants of.

What specific creature we're talking about, I do not know.
But what I do know is that no creature on earth is entirely seperate and independent of any evolutionary ties to other previous historical species. Therefore, we can go all the way back to through the Jurassic period, the Mesozoic era, and even the Precambrian era to the primordial ooze itself.

According to some, this ooze may have been the origin of all life. And what that sprang forth from, who knows. But going in reverse of evolution, from the earliest known ape-like creature in the prehistoric eras, to the primordial ooze my question is: Where or what was the first mammal to have birth-giving capabilities in the similar fashion that us apes do, and from what other species have they evolved from, that did not give birth in the same manner?




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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3748102 - 02/07/05 11:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How on earth did we learn how to deliver babies?

God programed evolution so that it would turn out that way :laugh:


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3749119 - 02/08/05 02:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what's the order of offspring sophistication?

asexual budding and stuff
(spores
pollen)
sticky goopey eggs
eggs with leathery skin
eggs with tough skin
(there's a jump here)
marsupial-style live birth
mammal-style live birth

and where does the platypus fit into all this?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3749158 - 02/08/05 02:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
How on earth did we learn how to deliver babies?

God programed evolution so that it would turn out that way :laugh:




lol


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3750301 - 02/08/05 11:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

when on earth did human pregnancy become an illness, to be routinely resolved in a hospital setting?

(midwives undoubtedly have a tradition ranging back to our proto-human antiquitiy, no?)

oy...

"antiquity"

(hey, i can mis-spell & typo stuff too)


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Edited by gnrm23 (02/09/05 10:13 AM)


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Jon]
    #3750318 - 02/08/05 11:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If we really did evolve then our 'souls'/DNA complex must have travelled the complete path of types of birth as Zekebomb lays out....we would know because we evolved with evolution.

The 'first ever' human birth was a part of a continuing series and not a sudden injunction that had everyone thinking 'wtf?'

I mean just look at your example at the top of the page...all these (proto) hominids sitting around...where did they come from? Are they all exactly the same age, or have there been many births during their lifetimes? Or did the stalk bring this first gang to Earth...and just leave them to do the rest by themselves?

And why would the pregnant female poke and bash her belly? Instinct shows the female the pattern and she surely knows this is a part of her and not some HR Giger style alien about to perform its own cesarean.


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Offlineoceansize
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: CJay]
    #3750366 - 02/08/05 11:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

since no ape would be born from a tummy poking mother, it is safe to assume this behavior is not passed on.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: oceansize]
    #3750573 - 02/08/05 12:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Ape and man, got common ancestors"
-Unknown :wink:


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OfflineJon
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Gomp]
    #3752637 - 02/08/05 09:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hahahahahaha, I dont even remember what I was on when I wrote this, it had something to do with some church sermon I heard from some really smart preacher the other day.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: How did humanity learn how to deliver a baby according to evolution? [Re: Jon]
    #3766309 - 02/11/05 01:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

well tell that preacher that "natural selection" makes it so that the ones who smash their bellies don't pass on their stupid genes! Thus the ones who have that birthing instinct gene survive...

duh!


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