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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Cathedral Ghost **Picture**
    #3640583 -

I ran across this the other day and thought you all may find it interesting. I'm not sure of the date of the photo, but I'm guessing around the 1930's.

My first thought was that it was a double exposure, but if this were the case it seems that there would be more ghostly figures besides just the one. I suppose it could be a hoax, but I doubt that. I found the photo in a box of old stuff that was donated to the archives of the the cathedral shown. The print itself appears to be very old, and it came with no documentation.

Who could our ghostly priest be?


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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: shroomydan]
    #3640627 -

It could be a double exposure.
take one picture with the room full of people like we see it on the photo underexposed by a stop, and another one with just the priest and nobody there allso underexposed by a stop.

Once I made a picture just like that, only in my home.
It was black and white too, and I appeared as a 50% opacity ghost
just like the priest.

And I don't see why would a ghost appear transperent in a photo.
Either it's photographable or not.


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

Edited by skystone (01/17/05 07:08 PM)

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: shroomydan]
    #3640642 -

Yea thats a double exposure alright. I used to work Photolab for a drug store. We used to get them all the time.

heh i remember one day this guy had his film done and it was the funniest thing i ever saw.

He had some hunting pictures of his deer and a christmas pictures and the dead deer was super imposed on the christmas pictures. It was so realistic like he really took a picture of the deer near his kids.

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: shroomydan]
    #3640679 -

On second thought, that picture is full of ghosts..
all those people there are probably dead by now..


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3640685 -

"It could be a double exposure.
take one picture with the room full of people like we see it on the photo underexposed by a stop, and another one with just the priest and nobody there also underexposed by a stop."

Wouldn't that make transparent images of of chairs and other furnishing appear superimposed on the other people?

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: shroomydan]
    #3640701 -

Yes, I forgot about all the other people in the room :smile:

Let me just think on this one, I'll figure something out


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: skystone]
    #3640752 -

You know it's funny...the look of the priest suggests
that the area of his cloak was exposed by underexposed church, and for that to be true the rest of the church had to be exposed on top of the same image of the church to get the right exposure, but that just can't be right because of all the people in the picture.
This gives a few dilemas..

If it was a priest shot in front of everything black,
then he two would be double exposed by the church image because his cloak is dark. A double exposure can only lighten the image, not darken it.

This would be possible in some kind of optical printing like it
was used in movies, but if this image is taken from the original negative, then It is quite interesting.

I draw back what I have said, this can't be double exposure
made the way I described it.
It had to be a transperecy printed together with the original negative.


Double exposure is an additive process, printing is a substractive process. The priest is black, the only way to double expose him would be to shoot the church twice, but that isn't the case.


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: skystone]
    #3640790 -

There is only one alternative, but it's HIGHLY unlikely

If you took a very long exposure, as long as 60 seconds or more
you could walk around the picture at a certain speed and not get photographed because you are never staying in one place long enough to make a difference on film.
Then if you stopped for like 15 seconds in one place you would
produce a sort of a dodging effect on film and the result would
be like this.

BUT

for that to happen everyone in the cathedral would have to be still for a minute (and they seem to be not) and you would have to have
a sill clown-priest running around the church, then stopping at one place and running again. It would be ridiculous. Who would do such a thing on a mass?

So I'm still holding to the idea that it was a printing trick..
well either that or a real ghost


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: skystone]
    #3640919 -

You have a very interesting photo...if nothing else it is a beautiful relic. I don't know about ghosts, but a double exposure seems far fetched as well. The camera would have to be unmoved until the church was either full or empty. Thanks for posting it.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3640966 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
You have a very interesting photo...if nothing else it is a beautiful relic. I don't know about ghosts, but a double exposure seems far fetched as well. The camera would have to be unmoved until the church was either full or empty. Thanks for posting it.


Like I said (and the original poster), if the camera was not moved untill the church was empty, all the people in the picture would appear as ghosts.

I've posted some possible theories in above posts, but the only likely is a substractive compositing in printing


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: skystone]
    #3641033 -

I was actually replying to the parent post, but I did note your post for it's correctness...my wording was just somewhat imprecise.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3641075 -

I know that you replied to the original post, I just thought you didn't see what we were discussing in the middle


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: shroomydan]
    #3641134 -

I'm confused, is the ghost supposed to be the guy in the center bottom right that is all white almost? Looks like a normal man

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: shroomydan]
    #3641226 -

This was a time exposure!

The dead giveaway is the priest in the upper right. He shows motion blur. If you look at the heads of the individuals that are sitting behind the first short wall, there heads are blurred as are the bibles in there hands (Turning the pages).

There are a few motion blurs in the audience as well.

You can also see through the alter boys head.


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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: Cyber]
    #3641404 -

From what I can tell, I think it was a print job.

But if the negative shows the ghost, it was a lucky double exposure (the priest frame was shot first at about 1/2 sec shutter speed, followed by the blank frame which was slightly underexposed).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: Sclorch]
    #3642398 -

Everybodies heads are clear, so it would have to be a REALLY lucky double exosure, one in wich nobody moved exept the ghost priest...


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: skystone]
    #3642505 -



note what i circled.. blurs. the bottom left circle, i swear i can see through their heads.

that aside, how much do people really move around in church over let's say a 1 minute period.

the entire right side of the congregation looks fairly ghostly to me, also.

edit: missed this almost. top rightmost corner. the nuns to the right of the kids on the balcony. what the hell's up with the Faceless Nun.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

Edited by Mushmonkey (01/18/05 08:12 AM)

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3642537 -

Blur doesn't prove anything really expet that it was a long exposure, which is normal for a church environment, specially with those slow films of that age.

But now that you mention it, there could be a few transperent heads in that "audience", just harder to notice..

If it were a dobule exposure, it would have to be just the right moment, perhapse a scenario where everyone were praying and being still and a priest comes in in the middle of the praying and stands on the oltar there.

But I think that's far feched, I think it was done in printing


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: skystone]
    #3644166 -

I can't see any transparent figures besides the obvious one, just alot of blurriness. You can tell there was a long exposure time from the brightness of the lights and from the guy wearing white in the pulpit.

Double exposure seems highly unlikely to me. The transparent image was probably deliberately inserted when the picture was printed. If it is a hoax then the guy did a pretty good job.

Yeah Mushmonkey, That nun does look creepy.

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Re: Cathedral Ghost **Picture** [Re: shroomydan]
    #3644251 -

This photo has convinced me of the reality of the after-life. I am a-changing my evil ways.  :thumbup:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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