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Offlineekomstop
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Dreaming, Consiousness.. Shroomism care to read?
    #360143 - 07/24/01 06:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

hey peeps..

well i can tell this board is filled with smart, open minded people. and i really cant think of a better place for this link to be posted. its hard to find the right people to read all this with interest.

i'd really like to see "shroomism" return to hear his opinion on this link a friend of mine found while reading up on consious dreaming. i'd also like to hear the author's opinion on shroomism's opinion. and anyone elses opinion for that matter. he does talk about feelings of 'presences' while under the influence of certain drugs, but does not actually believe them to be anything more then an illusion, or hallucination. even know this is only in a small portion of his writings.

i am not implying EITHER side is wright or wrong, because i really dont know. all i know is both these guys have some really interesting shit going on in their heads, and i'd like to know more.

this article has little to do with shroomism's extraterrestrial writings, his topic is focused on basically the mind and how it works. you will notice he likes to talk about drugs like cannabinoids, psilocin, salvinorin and others.

the author does believe in extraterrestrial life, but is convinced they have no real interest in communicating with us. he has done some REALLY in depth research regarding consiousness that i believe everyone on this planet should read, understand, and if they would, continue to research.

so for those of you looking to open your mind even further..... this is one of the best reads i have ever had. pleeaaseee if you have some time, read what this guy has to say. the whole ignorant world should be able to acomplish this..

maybe the ignorance will disapear....

please tell me what you think..


http://www.dog.net.uk/claude/dreams.html


<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by ekomstop on 10/06/01 05:39 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Edited by ekomstop on 10/06/01 05:43 PM.



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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: ekomstop]
    #360240 - 07/24/01 08:58 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

wow... that is some really really interesting stuff... but im not able to read it now... i have to get some sleep and go through it when im less tired...

peace

In(di)go

"All this pain is an illusion... of what it means to be alive"


--------------------


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Invisiblethemaninthewoods
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: ekomstop]
    #361035 - 07/26/01 01:12 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I just started reading it and am very interested. What I have read so far puts into words my beliefs about the universe and consciousness very clearly (not neccessarily all things I've read, but most). I'm going to keep reading. THanks for the link.



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OfflinePhyl
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: ekomstop]
    #361132 - 07/26/01 04:48 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Ekomstop,

Thanks for the link. I haven't had chance to properly read through it yet as it's pretty long, but I will do as soon as I get the chance.

he does talk about feelings of 'presences' while under the influence of certain drugs, but does not actually believe them to be anything more then an illusion, or hallucination.
To understand whether a presence or hallucination is real or just a hallucination, you need to define your own ideas of what is real. From a scientific point of view, there exists 2 separate realitites, often known as endoreality and exoreality.
Exoreality is the world in which we all exist; the physical world arround us. This world consists of nothing more than a bunch of moving energy.
Endoreality is the world that exists inside of us, and is a product of our mind. This world is our own personal interpretation of exoreality, and is individual to a person. Your endoreality is the world that you are used to living in, and most things that you take for granted such as colours, Sound, Emotions, Thoughts etc exist only in your Endoreality. The only connection between these two realities is our senses.
As endoreality is the world we all live in every day, surely this world is more real than exoreality, and so something having a basis in exoreality begins to become irrelivent. When talking about entities, the question that needs to be answered is not whether they have any basis in exoreality, but whether they are real in your endoreality. If you can see or communicate with an entity, then how is that any less real than seeing or communicating with a person you are standing next to? How can you be sure that a person you are standing next to actually exists and is not also just a manifestation of your mind?

My own opinion is that it doesn't matter shit whether an entity is a manifestation of you mind or not. What matters is what you take away from the experience.

Take care

Phil





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OfflineAnagathka
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: ekomstop]
    #369105 - 08/09/01 12:54 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Great link. I just finished reading it. I have been looking for information like this for a long time. Too bad the link at the end dosn't work anymore :(

Thanks again :)



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OfflineMANNALORD
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: Anagathka]
    #371367 - 08/14/01 02:40 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

when reading your post phyl, i began to understand alot of things about the human mind. when you think about how we experience life and events in the exoreality we all take it into our endoreality which, depending on the mind and what it had been influenced by, take all thing very differently. This makes me think of how vastly different other peoples endorealities are, althogh we have our similarities we all take things and do things differently, and to add another twist, imagine the primal endorealities of say? tigers and gorillas, interesting thought no? phyl you are an intelligent person and yes that link is great! how did u find that neways?

im tellin you now, you motherfuckers dont know me


--------------------
Live and Die in FALL RIVER


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OfflinePhyl
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: MANNALORD]
    #371432 - 08/14/01 04:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the kind words manna.

The nature of endo and exo realities is something that I realised during a very powerful shroom trip I took a few years ago (In amsterdam, where shrooms are legal). I had read of the concept before, but had never really fully understood. I spent the entire trip disecting, evaluating and rearranging my consciousness in a way which seemed far more streamlined and logical, and as I came back down I discovered my entire perspective on reality had been altered significantly. It was almost as if I was living in an entirely different world.

You mentioned the endorealities of animals, and I this is an interesting subject, as it is the nature of human consciousness that has allowed humans to develop intelligence to a far higher level than most animals. I see the main difference between the animal and human consciousness as the ego (essentially everything that is you). I don't believe animals have an ego in same way as humans, and exist mostly in the subconscious. Because of this animals rely mostly on intent and intuition for descision making and have an extremely different endoreality, which would be near impossible for a human to comprehend



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OfflineMANNALORD
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: Phyl]
    #371437 - 08/14/01 04:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

yes, you are making me think again, animals egos are more like what happens, instead of what happens to me because a animals life is not affected by all the vastly different situations humans face in our everyday lives, animal communities are primitive and extremely basic ways of life. I understand what you are saying and i do believe animals ego's are more less what happens to them, but what happens in a whole, they are much more connected with nature as their home and enjoy their simple ways of life, oooooo to be an animal. I have a cat and just study it all the time, she is very interesting, sometimes for no reason she just wants to come down in my room in the basement and hang out with me for awhile, then she'll get bored and look at the door, then when i open it, she looks outside the door, then looks back at me, and just walks back and rubs up against my leg or something, i believe my cat see's trust and companionship in me and enjoys my company. Its interesting to see bonding between animals and humans, and i can compare the bonding between animals and humans to the bonding between humans and humans, because we are all unique, animals are also unique to us. Heh im rambling on arent i???

somehow, my thoughts are more insane than the mind they spawn from


--------------------
Live and Die in FALL RIVER


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OfflinePhyl
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: MANNALORD]
    #371467 - 08/14/01 04:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

animals egos are more like what happens, instead of what happens to me because a animals life is not affected by all the vastly different situations humans face in our everyday lives, As animals live mostly on instinct and intuition and have no self-realisation, they are not driven to develop or better themselves. They very much live for the moment and act without regard for the consequences of their actions.

they are much more connected with nature as their home and enjoy their simple ways of life, oooooo to be an animal.
I would say they are more connected with nature as they exist mostly in the sub-conscious, and outside the bounds of the ego is where nature truely exists.

i believe my cat see's trust and companionship in me and enjoys my company
I believe that animals animals can sense an individuals intentions and state of mind on an energetic/psychic level. One question I would ask is about your cats reaction to your moods. If you are in a bad or angry mood, will your cat avoid you or act in a more defensive/cautious manner? I know mine does. My lizards also do the same. If I am in a good mood when I return home, they will sit on their rocks and watch me with a look of curiosity and will hapilly let me handle them, however if I am in a bad mood, they will hide under their rocks when I come into my room and will run from me if I try to pick them up.
Because of this I believe animals react to my ego, rather than display ego's of their own. I believe this is the reason that some people generally get on well with animals whilst some people dont, as was mentioned in a recent thread.

Anyway, just some random thoughts

Take care

Phil




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OfflineMANNALORD
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: Phyl]
    #371752 - 08/14/01 04:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

well my cat is kind of a naturally cautious cat, and if im with friends or am not being friendly to my cat she will seem a little either startled or just kind of ignores me, but if i take the time to notice her or pet her, it quickly changes when i show her friendly attention. Its too early i just got up, i can talk better late at night. peace

somehow, my thoughts are more insane than the mind they spawn from


--------------------
Live and Die in FALL RIVER


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InvisibleNDK
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: MANNALORD]
    #372243 - 08/15/01 11:38 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I suspect you might be applying human concepts to animals. Many people think their cat is being friendly cos they rub their head against your leg but all they are doing is scent-marking you. We don't even know whether domesticated cats see us as other cats or whatever. I would be insanely interesting to experience an hour as a cat!

They seem intelligent enough to know what beings are friends and which ones are dangerous but only from experience. I don't think it requires a phychic link but just the ability to learn and a pleasure/pain system.



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: Phyl]
    #373503 - 08/17/01 05:25 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

>it doesn't matter shit whether an entity is a manifestation of you mind or not

Huh? It doesn't matter whether or not one is psychotic? It doens' matter whether the enitities are really God or just the neighbor's dog commanding you to kill? So delusion is good?

Sorry, don't buy that at all.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedragoon
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: ekomstop]
    #403118 - 09/25/01 12:27 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

bump.
maybe shroomism can give this some insight now.



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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: dragoon]
    #415983 - 10/06/01 06:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

yes, hopefully he could.
shroomism?




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Anonymous

Re: Dreaming, Consiousness.. Shroomism care to read? [Re: ekomstop]
    #416222 - 10/07/01 01:00 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Well...what can I say?
First, let me start by saying that the feeling of a "presence" can take many forms.
Many times, when one feels a presence, it is not neccessarily an extraterrestrial. On the contrary, it is usually that person's "higher self". The higher self, sometimes referred to as the "total self" is an aspect of us that exists on a higher vibrational plane. It exists purely in the spiritual world. It contains all of our memories of our previous lifetimes and realizes our purpose for existence.
Sometimes, the presence is actually our future self, coming to visit one of it's previous lifetimes.
The feeling of a presence can take so many forms, that it is really up to the person experiencing it to know what the nature of that presence is.
On the topic of drugs.. certain drugs can be used as a tool to access higher states of consciousness. While drugs are certainly not the key to ascension, they can open doorways which we might not have noticed. Drugs, like anything, can be abused. If abused, taken for the sole purpose of getting "fucked up" they can lead to negativity. However, when used with respect, and spiritual/religous purposes, drugs can be a spiritual tool, as many people will attest.
Drugs are not the answer, as you can achieve far greater effects without them, such as through meditation, dreaming, etc.. These things allow you to access your mind in greater clarity than a drug would allow. However as I stated previously, drugs can allow that avenue of perception to open. But I would not condone using only drugs to gain higher states of consciousness. You can do that without drugs.
The way you take a drug will determine how that drug effects you. Intentions are what counts.
A hallucination is defined as a subjective experience..but who is to say that one person's hallucination is not another's reality?
A presence felt while under the influence of drugs could be just that..an illusion or hallucination. But where do hallucinations come from? The mind. Where does the mind get this stuff? From the subconscious.
Excuse me if I am jumping around here, I tend to do that when I have a thousand thoughts trying to get out at once, bear with me.


***SHROOMISM'S DISCLAIMER***

Some of the things I say may cause people to react with hostility, or attack my views. I am well aware of this as it comes with the territory.
However I feel that some people feel that I may be spouting off superiority, which is not what I am doing. I share my knowledge openly, I'm not going to hide what I know for fear that someone may disagree.
All in all, I acknowledge the fact that we are all spiritual beings on the quest for knowledge. I share my knowledge with others so that they may share their's with me.



>>the author does believe in extraterrestrial life, but is convinced they have no real interest in communicating with us. he has done some REALLY in depth research regarding consiousness that i believe everyone on this planet should read, understand, and if they would, continue to research.

Alien's want to communicate with us more than you could imagine. But they are very limited. Allow me to explain.
I have been in contact with extraterrestrials for some time now, and there is several major things I have learned about them since then.

1. Everyone on Earth either has been, or is currently in contact with extraterrestrials in one way or another. Whether they are aware of it or not is totally up to them.

2. Contact with lesser evolved beings (such as Earth) is regulated. Experience in the past has shown if they just land their ships and proclaim their presence, a couple of things are likely to follow:

A: They will be labeled as Gods
B: The world breaks out into chaos, heart attacks, etc.
C: Some beings would take advantage of humans and enslave them.

For these reason, all of which have happened in the past, the Council of Worlds has instated rules on communication with lesser evolved civilizations.
The Council of Worlds is comprised of 50 or so civilizations from all over our galaxy. They are the peace-keepers of our milky way. Sort of like the Earth's U.N.
The Council of Worlds has developed rules to interacting with lesser evolved societies, which is called the Rule of Non-Interference, which basically says they cannot effect our evolution directly in any way. We have free will, a universal right, and they cannot prevent us from making stupid decisions, we have to learn our own lessons. The Rule of Non-Interference basically states that no higher evolved being (higher than the 3rd, that is) is allowed to make conscious contact with a 3rd dimensional being until:
A: That civilization is able to travel out of their own solar system under their own power.
or B: That civilization has reached an evolutionary point (4D) where they are naturally able to communicate with them.
For these reason, all contact with extraterrestrials at this time is done on a subconscious level. Meaning that our conscious has no idea it is occurring, unless we are able to read our subconscious. What does this mean exactly? It means that aliens do not physically appear to us and talk to us, it means that they are allowed to communicate with us in dreams, and through imagery which they place on the ground. These images speak to the subconscious and are not interefering directly with our evolution. They also communicate with us in the waking state, although only to our subconscious, so we may not even be aware of it.
I will get to the point about drugs... certain drugs when used in the right mindset allow people to access their subconscious quite easily. Since this is where all of this information is stored, it is oftentimes a trigger that allows that person to remember communications they have had with beings in their subconscious.

Why would they want to communicate with us anyway?
Well, simply put... because we matter. Although we think we are insignifigant, we are just as much a part of this universe as the sun or the planets. We are responsible for our thoughts and actions, and our thoughts and actions effect the entire universe, not just us. They would like to show this to us, because we effect them just as much as we effect ourselves.

I would write more, but I got disconnected twice while writing this and had to start over. Hopefully I covered the topics that you wanted me to. If not...tell me.

Love and Light

Edited by Shroomism on 10/07/01 12:28 AM.



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OfflineVespa
Driver of Vespas(geek)
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness, CNS research.. [Re: Phyl]
    #416264 - 10/07/01 01:42 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I agree that things need to be taken from empirical value, but in metaphysics its often theorized that our consciousness as a whole is constructed upon an illusory 'wall' in order to protect and nurture our ego. My two cents.

** Vespa
r.i.p. jamie b. 4.18.01, i miss you man ;(


--------------------
** Vespa
r.i.p. jamie b. 4.18.01, i miss you man ;(


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness.. Shroomism care to read? [Re: ]
    #420339 - 10/10/01 01:47 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

great stuff. all of what you're saying about drugs, hallucinations and the subconscious sounds right on the ball to me.



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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness.. Shroomism care to read? [Re: ekomstop]
    #420463 - 10/10/01 05:49 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The girl really tries... but she has wrong model...She did not use proper basics, and proper basics give you chance to come closer to reallity. than she never entered into neuronic pathways, and it is stupid from her to explain it scietifically with no basis.

Anyway...it seems very very idiotic to me that she thinks that memories are organised by time.
that stupid, that I wont enter in further debate.
If you want to read what is a real model, wich fits so well that it has not loopholes, than you should read my explanation in 10% topic....off course if you are interested.

If you think that Ralph is a cool guy, or even worse, that you support him, than you are an idiot. But from another point of view you are all good people sometimes
~Crobih


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Offlinemissulena
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness.. Shroomism care to read? [Re: ]
    #420475 - 10/10/01 06:58 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Shroomism- i come in peace ; )

The council of worlds does not sound very alien at all, I have yet to hear an idea regarding aliens that sci fi writers couldnt have came up with, the technology of humans today is actually far more bizarre.
I dont know if you have been asked this or not in some other thread but i was wondering do you have absoloutely no doubt whatsoever in your mind that aliens exist or are you open to the possability that they do not exist or if they do they cannot be explained or understood by human ways of reasoning because with council of worlds ect i see a bit of premature antropomorhisation sp? I can see why they wouldnt come here theve already got no hope

Edited by missulena on 10/10/01 06:11 AM.



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OfflineDead Shaman
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Re: Dreaming, Consiousness.. Shroomism care to read? [Re: ekomstop]
    #420653 - 10/10/01 12:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome stuff man!!! 

I highly recommend for everyone and anyone. 

It actually helped to answer some of my questions I had in another post. :smile:



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