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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum?
    #3482627 -

could i get anywhere proving this, is this a fact or is it nonsense?

take the center of the earth, its like big fish steam.
seeing far on this thought, so could any one clarify if it any thing to manifest? as it kinda would kinda, kinda kinda be just a slightly slight possible possibility, that i might have an upcoming post making sense to anyone..


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: Gomp]
    #3482907 -

Very possible it mind make some sense to me. Spit it out whatever it is on your mind. Use symbols, anologies, whatever. I want to hear your proposed link with the messedup vacuum for take off fun.

I can't stop giggling "gravity is faulty logic". I can relate to that!


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3483197 -

that is inspiring indeed, but i guess my question is:

How do Vacuum and Gravity fit together?

do they?


which lead me to, is Gravity the misinterpretation of Vacuum?

haha, fuck this writing!! hehehe

again.. Is gravity vacuum?
cause if it is, and if its old and all that, I'm not going after before this. it could get to be a devotion.


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: Gomp]
    #3484496 -

Is your ponderance... how can gravity exist in a vacuum?


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: oceansize]
    #3484526 -

I dont fully understand how mass creates a gravity in the first place


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3484617 -

It is one of the four fundamental forces of the universe, along with EM and weak and strong nuclears. It is best summed up as a warping of the fabric of spacetime caused by a mass.

Imagine a blanket stretched out flat. Now imagine there is a marble sitting on it. The marble puts a small dent on the blanket, and if another marble is placed on the blanket, it will tend to roll towards the first. If a cinderblock is on the blanket, it will cause a huge dent, and the marbles will be strongly 'attracted' to it. The blanket represents spacetime, the marbles and cinderblock masses, the dents the warps


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: oceansize]
    #3484811 -

very nice analogy :thumbup:


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: oceansize]
    #3484825 -

Thanks man, but i've heard that explanation a thousand times already :p isnt that marble on a blanket idea still only theory?

It doesnt make sense to me, the only reason the marbles will roll towards the bigger marbles on this blanket is because theres already gravity pulling the bigger marble down into the blanket, what gives the bigger marble the gravity to start the ball rolling... Dont see? this explenation doesnt cut it in my book, and is only used as a way of saying 'yes it seems to work this way'


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3484848 -

you gotta consider your point of view when looking at this model. the earth, which provides us with our gravity is just another marble on the blanket. we go where it goes. and there are lots of blankets. and lots of marbles.


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #3484868 -

possibly, but the whole blanket ting doesnt explain gravity, only makes it easier to picture how gravity effects other objects and to prove worms holes are possible lol, I have my doubts on that one too though.


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3484894 -

ever read anything on string theory?


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #3485079 -

i thought the string theory was proven to be wrong


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: oceansize]
    #3485280 -

oceansize said:
It is one of the four fundamental forces of the universe, along with EM and weak and strong nuclears.  It is best summed up as a warping of the fabric of spacetime caused by a mass. 

Imagine a blanket stretched out flat.  Now imagine there is a marble sitting on it.  The marble puts a small dent on the blanket, and if another marble is placed on the blanket, it will tend to roll towards the first.  If a cinderblock is on the blanket, it will cause a huge dent, and the marbles will be strongly 'attracted' to it.  The blanket represents spacetime, the marbles and cinderblock masses, the dents the warps


:thumbup: this is the analogy i was taught in astronomy class, it makes sense to me, regardless of thinking about gravity affecting the marble or whatever was said. you have to think of the blanket as space time, independent of any force, just a flat surface. push a marble across it and it will continue in a straight line, right? now put a giant piece of mass in the middle and push the marble in a straight line and it will drift towards the larger object and start circling it if there is no force to stop it. :shrug: seems to make sense in my head, i'd like to hear some other theories though.

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3485293 -

Quote:
MovingTarget said:
I dont fully understand how mass creates a gravity in the first place



As far as I can tell, no one on earth understands it. It can be measured to a very high precision, it can be described mathematically in increasingly sophisticated ways, there are theories, but nothing conclusive has been found. It may turn out to be very simple, or it may be too complex for us monkeys to ever understand. At the moment we'll have to be content with the fact that it just does (or appears to do even under the most rigorous experimental conditions.)

As for the 'blanket thing' that is a great analogy for understanding the warping of space. Yes, masses warp both space and time according to general relativity. (time slows down in the presence of mass, this too can be measured) But as stated above, how or why this happens, nobody knows.

Edited by koppie (12/12/04 05:38 AM)

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: koppie]
    #3485504 -

exactly :smile:


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: oceansize]
    #3485998 -

Quote:
Imagine a blanket stretched out flat. Now imagine there is a marble sitting on it.


I can follow up to here.

Quote:
The marble puts a small dent on the blanket, and if another marble is placed on the blanket, it will tend to roll towards the first. If a cinderblock is on the blanket, it will cause a huge dent, and the marbles will be strongly 'attracted' to it. The blanket represents spacetime, the marbles and cinderblock masses, the dents the warps


If there were no gravity, the first marble wouldn't make a dent, and the second wouldn't even technically roll - you need a gravitational centre of the marble to make it roll - let alone roll into the dent, joining the other marble.

It looks like an analogy explaining gravity, but all it does it describe gravity. One could do the same by saying:

Imagine a tower. Some dude climbs the tower's roof, stretches out his arm and lets go of a quarter. It then proceeds to fall more and more rapidly every second. When it hits the ground, it comes to a halt, denting the grass beside the tower.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3486115 -

See the post above by hendostan.

The blanket is the universe, no gravity is needed to create the dents, it is standalone and there is no earth's gravity to cause the dents. Instead, the blanket's dents are in four dimentions, warping space and time. This is the effect of any mass, not gravity. This is the cause of gravity. This explains the mechanism of gravity, and there is much more to be discovered. The analogy was just to understand the warping of spacetime in four dimentions. I have heard it said that there is no such thing as gravity, only the curvature of spacetime.


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3486138 -


Thanks man, but i've heard that explanation a thousand times already :p isnt that marble on a blanket idea still only theory?

Actually, no. The blanket/marble thingee is a simplified explanation of the actual theory, so that people without degrees in physics can get a semblance of an understanding of the theory.

It seems silly to say that this theory doesn't cut it until you have studied, and fully understood, not only the math and physics behind the theory, but why this conclusion was reached.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: Phluck]
    #3486161 -

I should point out, that in science, a "theory" usually doesn't just mean some guy's wacky idea. It usually refers to an idea that has been tested in a variety of ways, and seems pretty close to accurate. Not necessarily completely proven, but often the only explanation we have that makes any sense mathematically.

A LOT of experiments have been done to back up this theory. They say "If z is true, then when we do x, we should see y."
So they do x, and they see y, and they try all kinds of variations and different experiments they can think of.

Don't be so quick to discount ideas until you understand them 100%.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Gravity is fault logic, it a messup whit vacuum? [Re: oceansize]
    #3486234 -

Quote:
See the post above by hendostan.


I'm saying the marble wouldn't be influenced by the dent unless there were gravity to make it adhere to the blanket in the first place. It would just continue on at the same height it was before it reached the rim of the dent. Likewise, the dent wouldn't be produced without gravity.

Regardless of the underlying studies, I think it's a rather ill-conceived analogy. It doesn't explain gravity without using gravity, which is circular logic. What's more, if those dents are in 4D, a blanket with a 3D object on it doesn't really cut it for comparison purposes.

I'm still interested in the theory though. If those dents in space-time exist, what causes them? And how are they dents, into which dimension? If it works anything like the blanket-marble example (in which the 2D blanket is dented into a third dimension), the dents would have to be in a fourth spatial dimension, right?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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