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InvisibleMoonshoe
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which is the more important aspect of spirituality?
    #3240513 - 10/10/04 10:49 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the transcendent, gnostic, understanding of the universe, and our place in it? the realization of who we are and what we are here to do?

Or the compassionate love and selfless service to our fellow living beings?

and does one nescessarily lead to the other?

In other words, what would be the more important spiritual path?

to sequester yourself in a monastarey for years of deep contemplation, meditation and self exploration?

or to be like mother teresa and spend your life amids the worst suffering imaginable trying to ease the burden of others?

Id like to hear your thoughts

Personally i dont think anyone has said it better than markosthegnostic.

"the path of the soul is shaped like a shepherds cane. From the root to the crown (head?) and then down to the heart"

(three prostations)

but my understanding of that would lead me to think the best course in my life would be to first seek self knowledge and wisdom, even selfishly seeking it at the exclusion of all else, before concerning myself with world problems such as humanitarian and ecological criseseseses.

Ive caught some flak from my brother and others for saying that i think the most important thing to do is know thyself and basically gain transcendent wisdom. He thinks that the buddhists who spend all their time trying to achieve nirvana etc are selfish pricks who should be helping the sick.

what do YOU think?


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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Registered: 06/23/04
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3240581 - 10/10/04 11:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The blind path, is the the most important one :smile:


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aaaaaahhhhh


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3240711 - 10/10/04 11:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I love it white russian! You sound like me. "Find the darkest place you can, throw your ass in it and then light your own way out!" he he he jiggy style.

Moonshoe, you know there is no such thing as the more or most important thing or way.

There is no where to go but where you want to. Like when you lay down in bed and fall asleep. You can go anywhere in your dreams, but your body is always at home safe and sound in a warm cozy bed. You're already home, you never left it really.

Learning to swim is what its about in my book. The cosmos is an ocean, not a road. Every road is chock full of bumps, pot holes, detours, forks, speed limits, traffic cops, laws and rules and dead ends.

However, when you don't trust yourself, putting trust in others is what people tend to do. The whole point of knowing the self is to eliminate self denial and to enduce trust in yourself.

How can one know themselves unless they first stop denying, rejecting and fearing the dark within? paths that run to the light are paths that run from the dark. Good luck if you choose to take one. When the light is held out in front of you, a shadow is guaranteed to always follow.

When you know yourself as the light, you can illume your way where ever you go and the shadows dissapear as does the darkness.

Just some of my thoughts on this.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3240768 - 10/11/04 12:02 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ahahahahaha

I just noticed how I was talking about the bumpy road to nowhere versus swimming in the ocean. As I was typing that, I was thinking to myself, be like the dolphin.

Look at the two animations at the bottom of my post. Ahahahahahaha

Creepy cool funny. I love when that shit happens. Ohhhhh and look, my avitar picture is what I think out light body looks light too.

My last reply will probably be the only reply that will come with such accidental "not' illustrations.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflinePedM
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3240838 - 10/11/04 12:24 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

>> He thinks that the buddhists who spend all their time trying to achieve nirvana etc are selfish pricks who should be helping the sick.

There will always be more sick people to vaccinate, more hungry people to feed. That is the nature of this place. So long as we continue addressing the effects which bother us (and we must admit that it's the visibility of those who are suffering which bothers us much more than the mere fact that they suffer), we will commit ourselves to a compounding cycle which will only allow the situation to worsen as we exhaust our funding and resources.

Buddhists are interested in disocvering the causes of sickness, hunger, death. They are concerned with uprooting the cause of suffering. They do it not for themselves, but for the benefit of all living beings.


>> and does one nescessarily lead to the other?

Does compassion lead to the wisdom realizing the ultiamte nature of reality? Absolutely. From the Buddhist point of view, suffering is caused by mistaken awareness, and the degree of our mistaken awareness is directly proportionate to the strength of our self-grasping. The firmer our grip on the notion that we are the most important living being in the universe, the more isolated we will be, and the more segregated and machine-like the world will appear to us. Since universal compassion is the direct opponent of self-cherishing, our self-grasping, the depth of our love for others will be the depth of our understanding of the ultimate nature of reality.


>> but my understanding of that would lead me to think the best course in my life would be to first seek self knowledge and wisdom, even selfishly seeking it at the exclusion of all else, before concerning myself with world problems such as humanitarian and ecological criseseseses.

See where it takes you. Your path is second to your intention.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3241045 - 10/11/04 01:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

To me, the most important aspect of spirituality is the Golden Rule:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Frog]
    #3242256 - 10/11/04 10:28 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
To me, the most important aspect of spirituality is the Golden Rule:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.




this helps to shape the path.
the way is an integration of expression and impression.
a path of going through the self - something like
"the glance"
referred to in sufi-ism
a gentle way of projecting and absorbing.
(doing as you would be done by - does in fact explain it pretty well - seeing it in action is a spiritual thing)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3242752 - 10/11/04 02:01 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i think the most important thing to do is know thyself

I couldn't agree more. This is why I abhor prohibitions on the responsible use of drugs by informed adults.

Our generation is the first ever to have made the search for self-awareness a crime if it is done with the use of plants or chemical compounds as the means of opening the psychic doors. -- Dr. Alexander Shulgin


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OfflineGomp
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Diploid]
    #3242863 - 10/11/04 02:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

both


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Gomp]
    #3242946 - 10/11/04 02:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

great replies, especially like peds and jiggies.

Ped: my current understanding of the nature of reality leads me to think that the only way to truly and permanently change the external is to adress the internal. Be the change that you want to see. I have the idea that by doing away with greed, hate, violence, etc within myself i will have more of a positive impact on this world than i could ever have by bandaging wounds and donating money...

Jiggy: i agree totally about your dream analogy, its like no matter what we do, well get where were going, or rather realize we never left. But i also think that depending on your course, you can get there faster or slower, so im just wondering what the best course is for me individually. I know that weather i spend my life raping and murdering, or praying and fasting, or helping the sick, i will eventually be healed and returned to the source, but nevertheless some paths are definetly wiser than others.

Ped again: So if compassion leads to understanding, will understanding also lead to compassion? does there come a time in the life of the buddhist monk when he abandons his meditation to go back down into the vale of tears to help the suffering (bodhisatvas) or does he instead realize that all suffering is self generated and focus entirely on his own awakening? can you do either? is one 'better' than the other?

do all truly awakend souls make one last appearance on earth (like christ and buddha) before ascending, or do only some enlightend souls make that choice?

is it enough to do no harm, or must you also make an effort to reverse the harm of others?

so many questions

:heart:


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Anonymous

Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3243669 - 10/11/04 05:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I think the most important is to think objectively, outside of human experience. When you're unbound by societal, cultural, and instinctual programmming, Universal Truth comes much easier.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: ]
    #3244352 - 10/11/04 08:10 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

^ Yes. These are the two sides of the same spinning coin :smile:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: which is the more important aspect of spirituality? [Re: deff]
    #3245101 - 10/11/04 11:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i guess one of the main transcendend realizations ive had is that we are all one. So i guess if you realize that it just makes sense to treat all other life as well as you can, as it is really an aspect of yourself...


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