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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
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How can 42 thousand children be killed legally?
    #3105441 - 09/07/04 10:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)



How can 42 thousand children be killed legally?

The events in North Ossetia caused a wild outburst of emotions in the Russian press. Even the blast in Moscow was not PR-ed by the Russian propaganda as much as the seizure of school in Beslan. And this is understandable: children were taken hostage. And everybody knows that children are holy.



Here, for example, is the kind of irate philippic that super-liberal and independent Gazeta.ru, which reflects the overall sentiments in the Russian press, came up with about the gunmen who seized the school:



?Even for today?s terrorist war the seizure of a school with children is out of the ordinary. It is not just a challenge. It is the last boundary. Christianity knows no blood feud. But those who put the lives of children at stake in any game are not considered to be humans in it. These beings can never have God or family. The very threat to kill a child is renunciation of belonging to the human race, it?s like killing your own mother?.



As we can see, the sentence pronounced to armed 'unmen' is unambiguous. Those who attempted the lives of 132 schoolchildren in Beslan have now been crossed out of the list of the human race. Let?s make a note of it ? not those who killed, but who threatens to have a possibility to kill under certain circumstances.



All right. On the whole, the logic is clear and emotions are explainable. But? There are a couple of trivial questions in this regard:



What, for an example, can you call those who just kill children, and not threaten them? And what kind of punishment should be made for them?



What kind of species of mammals or predators are those who killed 42 thousand Chechen children of school age, and who have been holding the survivors hostage for the past 10 years and threatening to kill them each minute?



If ?the very threat to kill a child is renunciation of belonging to the human race, it?s like killing your own mother?, then what is the real murder of 42 thousand children, but not just a threat?



Or Chechen schoolkids are not children? Or Chechen children do not belong to the human race? Or killing Chechen children is not a crime, but only an 'inadequate use of force'? Or Chechen children can be legally tortured in Russian concentration camps?



Why the threat to the lives of 132 Russian schoolchildren raises an emergency to convene an urgent session of the UN Security Council, while murders of 42 thousand (!!!) Chechen children of school age have not been making anybody in the world outraged throughout 10 years?



Why the armed group that seized the school with children and their parents in it in a town located near the front lines, from where squads of murderers and sadists get sent to kill Chechen children, are supposed to be ?crossed out of the list of human race?, while maniac and slaughterer of Chechen children, who killed 42 thousand Chechen children of school age, - Putin and members of his camarilla, are being received in European capitals, and leaders of supposedly civilized Europe do not loathe to visit him?



Why? Maybe because Chechen children are Muslims?



I don?t know who seized the school, what the purpose of the hostage-taking is or what the consequences will be. We will find out about it in the nearest future. But this is what I feel like saying every time I read the irate articles of the Russian and of some of the Western press, and every time I listen to the condemning statements that Western leaders are making, while they kiss with the murderer of 42 thousand Chechen children of school age:



-You are hypocrites and scoundrels? And you should go to one gloomy place with all of your condemnations? You don?t even have the right to even be looking towards Chechen soldiers, let alone condemning them, because you are direct accomplices in the murder of 250 thousand Chechen women, children, the disabled, the pregnant, the elderly, and unborn infants killed by Putin?s sadists in the wombs of their mothers. Nevermore, forever and ever, are you or your fosterlings will be pointing to the Chechen people how to be living their lives.



Your vile and sneaky discussions about Chechen 'Islamists and separatists' and your rotten imitation of concern will not delude us, and you will no longer be able to separate us, because we know what you are?

Said Ibrahayev,

for Kavkaz-Center

2004-09-03 00:32:32


http://www.kavkaz.org.uk/eng/article.php?id=3158


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Registered: 09/05/04
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3105614 - 09/07/04 10:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)



Edited by Great_Satan (09/07/04 10:44 PM)


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3106036 - 09/08/04 12:06 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I really have no clue what to make of this posting, I'm not sure if you are asking questions, or if they are just rhetorical, my question for you, and its not at all malignant in any way, but where and when were 42,000 chechen children killed?

If there were 42,000 chechen children killed, or even 42, hell even 1, I think those responsible ARE dispicable.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3106069 - 09/08/04 12:14 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

These people have been killed since the start of Russia's war in Chechnya, bust mostly post-1994 after Russia's initial invasion of Chechnya. The Chechen children murdered are mostly carried out by Russian death squads. The Mujahideen has been defending Chechnya constantly from non-stop Russian invasions and military operations since then in the past 10 years.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3106098 - 09/08/04 12:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So the 42,000 is more of an estimate? I mean, that by no means diminishes its implications, I'm just asking.

Ummm, oh, yeah, well while I still think that the killing of the children in Beslan was atrocious, I have calmed down in the reaction that I feel should be taken against the chechens. Putin did fuck up, he should of tried to negotiate more.

See, even I can admit when I've "flip flopped"


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3106137 - 09/08/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry, but Putin was in the middle of negotiations when the bombs went off and the murderers started mowing down those trying to flee. The Spetsnaz had no choice at all -- their hand was forced.

This has been made plain by all the accounts of the incident.

pinky


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Phred]
    #3106154 - 09/08/04 12:31 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Pinky,

I had not heard the accounts of bombs going off. I heard they stormed the building because the terrorist started shooting children out of bordem.

But that's just what I got from the random American News Channels.

If you could give a link of a different account, I'd surely appreciate it.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3106155 - 09/08/04 12:31 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Like 9-11, the exact number will never be known. Today we simply say 3,000 were killed that day. With Russian death squads, reports are kept as far away from the mainstream media as possible. Since Beslan, very few people have asked, "What is going on in Chechnya that would drive someone to do that?"


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3106164 - 09/08/04 12:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well I'm asking that.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Phred]
    #3106171 - 09/08/04 12:35 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, Putin said they started shooting kids out of boredom (sounds fishy to me) and that's why they stormed the school.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3106193 - 09/08/04 12:42 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Oh man, I've read dozens and dozens of accounts since the whole thing began. I honestly can't remember which ones mentioned the explosions. There were several, though.

The point is that that the Spetsnaz did not just storm the building. They were holding off while negotiations were being pursued. When the murderers lost it and started killing, (either through grenades or bombs or just gunfire) then and only then did the troopers storm the joint.

There was really no other choice.

pinky


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3106208 - 09/08/04 12:45 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Press condemns Putin's slaughter worldwide

Swiss newspaper Basler Zeitung (Basel, Switzerland) writes: The demands of hostage-takers that Russian troops pull out of Chechnya are absolutely legitimate. At least, negotiations about ending the war could be conducted. Even negotiations about Chechnya's complete withdrawal from the Russian Federation is not a forbidden subject. In spite of obvious fraud, Gerhard Schroeder did not see any ?considerable shortcomings during the elections in Chechnya?. These statements made by the German Chancellor, who appeared in the role of an apostle of peace during the war in Iraq, do not fit for dialogue in Chechnya, - the newspaper complains.



Danish newspaper Politiken sticks to even more irreconcilable position concerning the crimes against humanity that Putin?s Russia is committing: It?s far from being the matter of ?Russian fight against international terrorism?, as Putin is declaring. Arabs used the restless situation in Chechnya, but international terrorism is not the reason for the conflict. If international terrorism must be fought, the same should be done to Russian state terrorism too.



French newspaper Le Figaro compares Bush?s policies in Iraq and Putin?s policies in Chechnya, and says with indignation that they both act from the position of force.



Swedish periodical Svenska Dagbladet reminds Putin that Chechens do have the right to self-determination.



Parisian Le Monde is outraged about Western politicians supporting the Kremlin?s tyrant: After Putin came to power, the situation in Chechnya got worse. Solidarity against terrorism is one thing. But support of 'magician?s apprentice' is another thing. Chirac and Schroeder should remember it when expressing their support for Putin.



Austrian newspaper Wiener Zeitung (Vienna) reminds Putin: After the bloody slaughter in Beslan Putin has no choice but to proceed to negotiations with political wing of separatists, which had to take place a long time ago. And this wing is Maskhadov, who is permanently respected by many Chechens.



The Times predicts the forthcoming end of Putin?s statehood. The newspaper published an article about the events in Beslan with an eloquent heading: ?Agony of Mother Russia?.



Austrian Die Presse demands that Russian nuclear arsenals are taken under international control, due to instability in the Russian Federation.

Andrei Dubrov, special reporter, Vienna, Austria.

Kavkaz-Center

2004-09-05 10:36:22


http://www.kavkaz.org.uk/eng/article.php?id=3157


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3106415 - 09/08/04 01:24 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Press condemns Putin's slaughter worldwide



Putin's slaughter? The assholes that took the children hostage were the ones that initiated the slaughter this time. Russian forces were responding to the situation. There is no justification for Muslim assholeness against the innocent. I understand and can sympathize with their grievances and can whole heartedly support a change in the Russian Government's policy towards Chechnya as their demands might be legitimate, but their actions were NOT legitimate. Fuck them and anyone who apologizes for their actions.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Evolving]
    #3106433 - 09/08/04 01:29 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Had Putin withdrew his troops from Chechnya, none of this wouldn't have ever happened. What happened was sad and evil, but there will always be fanatics who do this out of desperation. If Putin decided to pull out of Chechnya, many lives could have been spared.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Evolving]
    #3106445 - 09/08/04 01:32 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly. Even if the Russian government has committed atrocities (I'm not saying they did or did not) these children were innocents and the people who took them deserved to die. May they burn in hell.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3106452 - 09/08/04 01:34 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well that may be so and I have no quarrel with that as part of a strategy for arriving at peaceful coexistence, but that does not in any way excuse the actions of the sub-humans. They were righteously killed. I guess Islamic parents never teach their children, 'two wrongs don't make a right.'


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Evolving]
    #3106462 - 09/08/04 01:37 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The terrorists who carried out the evil in Beslan are now dead, and will be burning in Hell for eternity according to the teachings of Islam.

This has nothing to do with how Muslim children are raised. This is not Islam, this is beyond the pale. This is desperate evilism.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: How can 42 thousand children be killed legally? [Re: Zahid]
    #3106601 - 09/08/04 02:17 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If Putin decided to pull out of Chechnya, many lives could have been spared.

There's too much oil there for that.


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