Home | Community | Message Board


Kraken Kratom
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq
    #1371956 - 03/13/03 09:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq

By: Philip Knight March 12, 2003

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1617&dept_id=160351&newsid=7352064&PAG=461&rfi=9

Experts say likelihood of urban combat and exposure to WMD will result in "many thousands" of U.S. military dead. Low casualty rates in the Gulf War, Kosovo and Afghanistan have led Americans to expect more of the same in Iraq. Yet military experts are quietly warning that the impending war will likely yield a high U.S. death toll.

Analysts suggest that the Bush administration is keeping silent on the issue of casualties for fear of weakening public support for the war. "I don't think the American public is prepared for the kinds of casualties that might occur in Iraq," said NBC military analyst Col. Jack Jacobs (ret.). A consensus appears to be emerging that U.S. deaths during an operation in Iraq will likely run into the thousands.

The two concerns most often cited to account for significant U.S. fatality rates are the likelihood of urban combat and of Saddam Hussein's use of chemical and biological weapons.

"If you want to get a regime to change, you have to go to Baghdad and the casualties are going to be great" said P. Terrence Hopmann, director of the Watson Institute's Global Security Program.

One senior military official confided, "if we have to fight a pitched battle in Baghdad, it means we screwed up somewhere along the way." Yet the latest intelligence seems to indicate that this nightmare scenario is the one U.S. troops will be encountering.

Hussein is reportedly transforming Baghdad into an "Alamo-like" last stand, and guns and rocket propelled grenades are being issued to the population. U.S. intelligence has detected a substantial concentration of forces around Baghdad "with the deliberate intention of creating an urban combat environment," according to a Pentagon official.

Four of Iraq's six Republican Guard divisions are now concentrated in Baghdad.
General Joseph Hoar, the former commander in chief of the military's central command, remarked "all our advantages of command and control, technology, mobility, all of those things are in part given up [in cities]."

The most comparable example of a modern urban war is the Russian offensive against Grozny. In 1994, 1,200 poorly-equipped Chechen rebels held the city against a Russian army of 30,000, resulting in many thousands of Russian dead.
Whereas Grozny was comprised of a few hundred thousand people, Baghdad is a city of 5 million.

The administration's expectation of low casualty figures is largely based on the hope that Hussein's government will quickly implode in the face of a U.S. attack.

"The secret within the not-so-secret plan is that the top decision-makers are hoping that Hussein's regime will collapse," writes The Washington Post's Ralph Peters. "But wise soldiers don't go to war with hope as their primary weapon" (11/15/02).

"It is always possible that the Iraqi military will refuse to fight for Hussein," notes Mark Bowden, author of Black Hawk Down, "but this is wishful thinking . . . It is far more likely that they will fight, and tenaciously" (Los Angeles Times, 8/30/02).

The complex web of tribal relationships and loyalties hold the key to understanding the resistance U.S. troops are likely to encounter in Iraq. Unlike most of the Shia or Kurdish conscripts who deserted or surrendered during the Gulf War, the Republican Guard, as well as most of Baghdad's population, is comprised of Hussein's own Sunni Arab tribe -- which by all accounts remains fiercely loyal to his regime.

Military analyst Gwynne Dyer noted that the only reason Hussein survived the Shia and Kurdish revolts after the Gulf War is because the Sunnis "closed ranks around Saddam Hussein and fought to defend his regime."

More troublingly, according to London's Observer, the Pentagon believes that "they will have 48 hours to find and kill or capture Saddam before he tries to deploy any nuclear, biological or major conventional weapons he may have" (7/14/02). Intelligence sources have already intercepted Iraqi communications authorizing field commanders to use weapons of mass destruction.

While some analysts have cited less than a thousand U.S. combat fatalities, an emerging consensus of military experts appear to be warning of substantially higher casualty rates given the likelihood of urban combat and troop exposure to chemical or biological toxins.

The National Security Advisor report to the president advised "if Saddam Hussein retaliates conventionally, estimates of U.S. casualties range from the dozens to tens of thousands."

According to his discussions with a number of military experts, former senator Gary Hart warned that if the Iraqis mount a resistance in the major cities, American casualties could easily reach 50,000 to 100,000.

Military analysts such as Col. Jack Jacobs (ret.) warn of the potentiality of casualties in the "many, many thousands, depending upon what kind of war we fight and what kind of weapons are unleashed on our soldiers."

Likewise, Michael O'Hanlan, a military analyst with the Brookings Institution, estimated that "the United States could possibly lose as many as 5,000 troops if the Republican Guard fights as hard and as effectively as its size and weaponry would plausibly allow."

Philip Knight is a foreign news analyst and columnist with Knight Syndicate.com based in New York City.

?Manchester Times 2003


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1372017 - 03/13/03 09:31 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Notice that the factor mentioned repeatedly in determining estimates of US casualties is that Hussein will use WMD on US troops. Fortunately, since both Hussein and many contributors to this forum have repeatedly assured us that he has no WMD, these estimates can confidently be ignored.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1372020 - 03/13/03 09:31 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq



Only by fools, morons and Bozos.

EDIT: Good point pinky!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/13/03 09:32 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1372091 - 03/13/03 09:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

> Only by fools, morons and Bozos.

What is your prediction of US casualties?


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: Phred]
    #1372095 - 03/13/03 09:58 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps you didn't notice most of the article. For instance:

Quote:


The National Security Advisor report to the president advised "if Saddam Hussein retaliates conventionally, estimates of U.S. casualties range from the dozens to tens of thousands."






--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1372171 - 03/13/03 10:22 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

casualties range from the dozens to tens of thousands



well that narrows it down quite a bit. why not just go out on a limb and say 1 to 200,00 people will die on the U.S. side.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1372302 - 03/13/03 10:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Sounds like they're trying to build this up into a "war". It isn't a war. It's like Mike Tyson saying he's brave to be getting in the ring with a 4 year old.

The only figure that rings true to me is the one aid agencies have mentioned about 10 million innocent Iraqi's starving to death in the aftermath of the bombing.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
    #1372354 - 03/13/03 11:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Golly Gosh!

What a surprise!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1372365 - 03/13/03 11:18 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

When the Iraqis surrender in droves like the last time...
MAYBE a few hundred troops.

Several thousand Iraqis when they trample each other in the fight over the few rags clean enough to pass for white flags.

I still have some hope there will be no war.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1372495 - 03/13/03 11:49 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

What's missing in all this is that there is one man that can stop this war from happening....any guesses on who that ONE person may be?

Saddam....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleangryshroom
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,262
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1372577 - 03/13/03 12:13 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

.... and Bush?

Why don't we just go bomb Saddam's house, office, and wherever he likes to chill, and kill him, and only him. Maybe his son too...heh.

The thing I dont like about war is all the innocent civilians who will be directly effected. That, and the possibility of an environmental war which happend last time. :frown:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1372735 - 03/13/03 01:14 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

It's sad that the fate of thousands of human lives are in the hands of 2 incompetent men.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: ]
    #1372743 - 03/13/03 01:18 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Yes. Chirac and Schroeder.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1372747 - 03/13/03 01:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

When the Iraqis surrender in droves like the last time...
MAYBE a few hundred troops.





This is urban fighting though. I think a few hundred is the lowest we can hope for. Fancy technology doesn't do much in close quarters gun battles. They will not know which window or door hides an enemy, in a city of millions.

I guess Americans could just bomb the shit out of Baghdad, but doing so will turn Bush into an international war criminal.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1372750 - 03/13/03 01:20 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I was thinking Bush and Saddam.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: ]
    #1372773 - 03/13/03 01:26 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

No shit? Really?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1372781 - 03/13/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I just don't think there will be much fighting.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
    #1372800 - 03/13/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

The only figure that rings true to me is the one aid agencies have mentioned about 10 million innocent Iraqi's starving to death in the aftermath of the bombing.

Presumably these are the same aid agencies who predicted millions of deaths by starvation in Afghanistan after the UN intervention there.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1372845 - 03/13/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

When the Iraqis surrender in droves like the last time...

It really isn't that much of an achievement is it. Who are you going to "fight" next? The Hare-krishna's?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,045
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
Re: Thousands Of U.S. fatalities expected in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
    #1372867 - 03/13/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The pundits have been talking about laying seige to Baghdad to avoid urban combat. Has no one considered this possibility?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Baghdad Rag #13 afoaf 506 2 03/29/04 08:03 PM
by afoaf
* hahaha iraq is such a mess
( 1 2 3 all )
KingOftheThing 3,075 40 01/08/05 03:27 PM
by Divided_Sky
* Biggest Insurgent Group In Iraq To End Cease-Fire w/ US Army?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Madtowntripper 6,722 63 08/06/08 11:47 PM
by Redstorm
* Iraq: How we can bring our troops home - American Dissidents Voice The14thWarrior 413 0 10/11/05 02:06 PM
by The14thWarrior
* Military families grow angry with state of Iraq war Zahid 615 4 10/30/03 04:21 PM
by PsiloKitten
* Baghdad's residents snap up guns, rifles pattern 679 10 03/08/03 05:04 AM
by Chills420 version2
* Up to 12 U.S. Marines Die in Worsening Iraq Violence adrug 591 7 04/08/04 12:18 AM
by Learyfan
* Thousands of US troops fall sick from unexplained illness SquattingMarmot 825 14 09/10/03 01:12 PM
by afoaf

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,974 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.071 seconds spending 0.001 seconds on 16 queries.