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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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should LSD be legal
#1534843 - 05/09/03 02:07 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://slate.msn.com/id/2082647/??PS=9621
I never thought I'd see anything like this on msn
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1534848 - 05/09/03 02:08 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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ALL drugs should be legal.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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I agree....the chemical agents that scientists are having the doctors push on us are legal....either outlaw *everything* or nothing....no favoritism for big business
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DailyPot
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1534982 - 05/09/03 02:46 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think all drugs should be legal also but since they're not it might not be the best idea to legalize everything at once. I say legalize it in steps over a period of time, whatever it takes for society to stablize w/ drugs.
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: DailyPot]
#1534987 - 05/09/03 02:48 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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But yes LSD and the softer drugs should be legal on the spot.
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yelimS
bohem
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: DailyPot]
#1534990 - 05/09/03 02:49 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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great article, especially since it's on msn.
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Anonymous
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535069 - 05/09/03 03:20 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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all psychedelics should be legal. cannabis too. i can sympathize with those who say that 'hard' drugs should remain illegal, but i still think they're wrong. when it comes to the entheogens though, there's just no debate.
Edited by mushmaster (05/09/03 03:20 PM)
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Cracka_X
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ]
#1535177 - 05/09/03 03:55 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't give a fuck bout any other drug except shrooms. Do what they want to everything else but legalize shrooms for christ's sake
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535260 - 05/09/03 04:31 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow, great article.
I'm curious as to how many of us have experienced the 'beneficial' aspects of LSD. Aside from drastically altering my social and political perspectives - which obviously hasn't happened to everyone and could be considered by some to be not necessarily beneficial - LSD, without question, cured my 5+ year addiction to cocaine. Several sources have also alluded to LSD as having a positive effect for recovering from alcoholism. Has anyone else had similar experiences of LSD use modifying behaviour in a positive manner?
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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Rono
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535294 - 05/09/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Excellent article..nice find. Thanks!
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535334 - 05/09/03 05:05 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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W W
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Rono]
#1535355 - 05/09/03 05:15 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Decriminalization would atleast be a step in the right direction, not legal, but no punishment unless you cause some kind of problem, I would prefer legalizing everything...one myth about drugs is that they make you commit crimes to pay for them and support your habit....bullshit....you break into a house because you are to F@#%'n lazy to show up for work and you let that habit get the better of you... do it on acid....you wont be able to tear yourself away from the painting on the wall...or more often than not...the wall paper....how many people have held up a liquor store while tripping on anything....none...the grass is more interesting than money...if you kill someone while you are tripping and driving...life sentance for murder. The drugs were just a factor in the accident or whatever...LSD is one of the safest drugs known....how many people do you know that want to drive on it....
JIMSUZO: I refer to a friend, J, I purchased severalvials of liquid, I tested a theory I had using him, behavior modification, J, was a moderate psychotic, prone to fits of violence many resulting in harm to himself and others. over a 3 year span I dosed him once every 2 weeks with just a drop, sometimes with 2 just for his enjoyment....within 7 months there was a noticable change, outbursts became less violent and eventualy became very peaceful....a side effect it had was to oust his migrains.....he had been on some drugs for years to deal with them...Busphar or something...cant remember, but after 7 years I am the only person he has hit in an angered state....periodicly I provoke him.
With myself, I suffer from cluster headaches, have since I was a kid, my grandmother had given me something when I was 15 to remedy it, I took it and for several weeks I had no headaches, a few years later I had run out and asked her for a little more, she told me what to get....pasture mushrooms that turn blue and willow bark...damn indians....I have also used LSD to some extent to assist, it helps but isnt as effective....is has changed my disposition a great deal...
P#1
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535359 - 05/09/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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oh...Write your elected officials and pester the hell out of them to make sure they get this passed...1 letter a month from 24000 people will start something...it will make people take notice...if it passes....never let the put a time limitation on it and never let it be repealed....
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Strumpling
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535372 - 05/09/03 05:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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you kick ass
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535410 - 05/09/03 05:36 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I also suffer from cluster headaches. At least I did until I discovered that psilocybin and LSD are (to date) the most effective known treatment for them. Check my profile.
Here in the Dominican Republic, the traditional Curanderos living in the more rural areas have been treating migraines and presumably cluster headaches as well (but NOT regular headaches -- it doesn't work) for as long as anyone can remember with a tea made fron the local psilocybes.
I find it interesting that in your case LSD was less effective than mushrooms. From the limited reports we have from clusterheads who have tried LSD rather than mushrooms, it appears that LSD is more effective. However, we have reports from a mere handful who have tried LSD, and several dozen who have tried mushrooms, so it may be that with a larger sample size the two would even out.
pinky
--------------------
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Phred]
#1535443 - 05/09/03 05:48 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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for me it was using less than half a dose for each...proportionaly the same, not enough to trip from but enough to notice it was in your system...as a full dose, LSD is more effective, the effects were longer lasting in that it took longer for them to return...I swear by it...also many other things my grandmother taught me. Currently, I speak with a doctor of Chinese medicine, He teaches at a large University, we exchange methods and techniques, many are quite similar in ingredients and effects....LSD and Psilocybin still have everything beat
P#1
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1535733 - 05/09/03 08:13 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Heh. NO. LSD should NOT be legal.
Consider that something like 75% of the United States population cant even find the U.S. on a world map.
And you want these people dosing themselves with hundreds of thousands of mikes of acid at the corner liquor store?
Thats a GREAT idea.....
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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So just because people are stupid we should lock people up for having drugs? There are stupid people who do LSD anyway. Most drinkers won't be interested in LSD anyway.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
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I kind of see your point about the problems with selling LSD at your corner liquor store, but I don't think that's exactly whats being advocated here. One major problem with current policy towards LSD is that ANY use - be it recreational, therapeutical, or for research purposes by licensed practitioners - is illegal. To the best of my knowledge, you can't even study the shit legally under laboratory conditions. That's clearly the wrong policy given the potential that LSD and psychedlics in general have shown in helping people overcome chemical addictions, treating personality disorders, spiritual enlightenment, and for treating physical maladies such as those mentioned by other posts in this thread. It should at the very least be changed from a classification that designates it as having NO valid medical use (schedule I) to a classification that reflects the fact that it indeed has legitimate value to society. Damn good post, Prisoner 1. I've been thinking about this awhile and for what its worth, you've motivated me to write my congressman.
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
Edited by jimsuzo (05/09/03 10:27 PM)
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1535909 - 05/09/03 09:59 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mmm...I can buy having LSD legal for medicinal purposes, or research, or whatever. But it seems to me that an awful lot of you are advocating blanket legalization.
And I stand by my statement that such a thing would not be good....
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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JohnnyRespect
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I am for "blanket legalization" of every drug known to man. I don't think we should make substances that alter consciousness illegal what-so-ever.
Jr
-------------------- As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
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Quote:
.. it seems to me that an awful lot of you are advocating blanket legalization. And I stand by my statement that such a thing would not be good....
I find that to be an interesting point of view for someone on this board. What's your opinion on blanket legalisation of other drugs - not cannabis, but meth, cocaine or other opiates for example?
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
Heh. NO. LSD should NOT be legal.
Consider that something like 75% of the United States population cant even find the U.S. on a world map.
yeah...look at what we have *without* LSD.....I mean, if america is gonna be stupid, have a reasonable excuse....LSD is the answer....
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1536133 - 05/09/03 11:54 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I One major problem with current policy towards LSD is that ANY use - be it recreational, therapeutical, or for research purposes by licensed practitioners - is illegal. To the best of my knowledge, you can't even study the shit legally under laboratory conditions.
Not quite....look at this link....it's puzzled me for a couple of years now.... WHo Makes it... When was this produced Damn....they locked down the MSDS sheet....otherwise you would get to see who the ONLY buyer is....Remember, no valid medical or theriputic use, and if thats the case and it cant be sold to anyone, why are they making it....take my word for it...it the US military...I copied it a couple of years ago....gotta find it now...somethings about to happen....
Quote:
Damn good post, Prisoner 1. I've been thinking about this awhile and for what its worth, you've motivated me to write my congressman.
mine hates me....Newt, when he was speaker of the house....told me to 'QUIT' but I never listen, now I'm on the nutcake list...thanks....
I'll rip what I can from the site...you'd all be amazed how much they do....but now it should give you more reason to write
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Blanket legalization? or just LSD/Psilocybin....
it could be either way...but it's no different than Beer, Lortab or the Ephidrine pills you get at the convienience stores....in fact it's not as harmful, *no* chance of an OD, *no* chance of a poisoning unless it's from a clandestine lab....hell, they need to throw the dog a bone because if the keep pulling away it's food the dog will bite... P#1
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mycophat
member
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1536240 - 05/10/03 12:53 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well here is my 2 cents...Legalize ALL drugs or at the very least any drug that will grow naturally in the wild. Why you may ask because maybe they are also one of the Earth's natural ways of population controll. OK so a few 100,000 or so may OD and kill themselves in a decade or two ( hell maybe even alot more in a lot less) but exactly what kind of people are we talking about? Anyone with half a brain and an instinct to live will not go nearly that far. And with them all legal others wont just do more cause they may not be able to do them again for a long time or in a hurry cause they are too paranoid. For the most part the only ones who will die probably are not exactly the cream of the crop anyway. Now I know alot of you bleeding heart's out there will be upset by this but it actually IS the natural order of things. Every life form on Earth has at least one or more other life forms that either hunt it for food or kill it for territory. But what exactly is keeping the human race in check?.....well the only thing I can think of that kills humans every day is....no suprise humans. We kill each other everyday for oil ,for land ,for money, for drugs, and hell sometimes for no particular reason at all. Perhaps somewhere in our subconscious we know that there is no other lifeform out there keeping us in check so we simply do the job ourselves. And besides its better in the long run when thinking of evolving into a higher life form. One way animals evolve is through the "only the strong survive" (so to say) method. Possibly one reason why human beings dont seem to have evolved more than what we have could be that there are too many unnecessary genes out there in "the collective". So maybe the Earth knew of the coming of mankind and provided us with a different method of natural selection.The slow weak minded of our race would kill itself off,while the rest of the world could live on in peace and happieness with the aid of some simple plant life and fungi. When it comes right down to it every life form on the planet both plant and animal has a carefully balanced set of check and balances to keep any one life form, from for all good purposes destroying their world.....EXCEPT humans and it looks to me like if anyone or anything is going to destroy our world right now it is us......Not the bunnies.
Edited by mycophat (05/10/03 12:56 AM)
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1536429 - 05/10/03 03:30 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dude, I like the way you think.
Quote:
otherwise you would get to see who the ONLY buyer is....the US military...
Those fucking pricks! and they've probably been hording all the good shit and doing something stupid with it.
Quote:
I'll rip what I can from the site...you'd all be amazed how much they do....but now it should give you more reason to write
get it whenever you can. feel free to pm me anytime with anything about this topic. I'll join you on the nutcake list for what its worth. Are you worried about at all about your letters giving them an excuse to come kick your door?
J
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1536435 - 05/10/03 03:37 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
When it comes right down to it every life form on the planet both plant and animal has a carefully balanced set of check and balances to keep any one life form, from for all good purposes destroying their world.....EXCEPT humans
In Food of the Gods, Terrence Mckenna theorizes that the substances placed on earth to keep humankind in check are none other than psilicybin mushrooms and other natural plant hallucinogens. Think about it - what other substance places you in greater mental balance with nature than psychedelics? Unfortunately, the dominator culture has everyone convinced that al drugs are evil, and as a consequence, the planet is doomed.
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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yeti
Stranger
Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 20
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IMO it's a good idea to keep LSD and other substances under control, but the current DEA scheduling / enforcement is fucked:
www.nida.nih.gov/DrugsofAbuse.html
Note that while LSD, marijuana, and psilocybin are considered Schedule I (higher potential for abuse / no medical use / stiffer penalties), methamphetamine and cocaine are in Schedule II.
WTF?
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boxtop703
ThesaurusLinguae Graecae
Registered: 06/26/01
Posts: 5,011
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1536651 - 05/10/03 08:32 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Great article!
LSD is a gift, it's about time someone defends it.
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Anonymous
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1536659 - 05/10/03 08:44 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fantastic article!
Good work. Legalize all drugs. No one should have the right to tell us what we can do to our bodies unless we are harming another in the action.
Cheers,
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: boxtop703]
#1536679 - 05/10/03 09:09 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Great article!
LSD is a gift, it's about time someone defends it.
You are just the man....well maybe all of us are....seriously, call, write and personaly visit your state and fed reps asap.... I own a few suits and look nice when I'm all cleaned up....you'd mistake me for a lawyer....
dont ask how this tidbit caught my eye...it's burried on MSN....no one would find it there...
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ]
#1536682 - 05/10/03 09:12 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Look...link to this thread anywhere you happen to browse....it's actualy become quite interesting....and this needs a bit of support...if nothing else link to the article EVERY WHERE....lets not let progress stand in the way of progress....
P#1
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mycophat
member
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1536942 - 05/10/03 12:24 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Jimsuzo I have never read food of the gods or any of Terrence Mckenna's work as of yet but I already like the way he thinks. I will have to go and find myself a copy and see what else he has to say.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1537044 - 05/10/03 01:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Another conspiracy theory - "LSD should be legalized".
Pardon my editorial laugh. Why don't you people get an education before you make such ridiculous statements.
Until 100% of the human populous can take LSD safely it should stay locked away from everyone. Ask Syd Barrett if LSD is good for you...........if you can find him.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Learyfan]
#1537308 - 05/10/03 04:05 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Another conspiracy theory - "LSD should be legalized".
Pardon my editorial laugh. Why don't you people get an education before you make such ridiculous statements.
Until 100% of the human populous can take LSD safely it should stay locked away from everyone. Ask Syd Barrett if LSD is good for you...........if you can find him.
Why should it stay locked away? If you take a look around at your world you'll realize nerely nothing is 100% safe for everyone. In fact of the top of my head I cant think of anything. Just to name afew quick things that are not "locked away from everyone" even tho "100% of the human population" cant use them safely: cars, alcohol, kitchen knifes, junk food, video games, glass cups, electrical appliance, boats, asprin, viagra, pools, birth control, cell phone, metal scissors, earrings, chemical clearers. Thats just afew without going into the harder ones like guns etc.
You should get abit more educated before making such ridiculous statements.
Also this isn't saying your uneducated, I'm just protecting myself from any chance of you saying I didn't quote you correctly...I spelt "populous" differently.
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Learyfan]
#1537331 - 05/10/03 04:21 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
[image]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:5qnW7AaDz1oC:members.aol.com/pgrsel/barrett/desktop1s.jpg[/image]
Wow, I just noticed you dont think pot should be legal either. This is definately not where you should be posting...
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mycophat
member
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: DailyPot]
#1537400 - 05/10/03 04:50 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Leary fan...ha ha ha you are a funny guy. Must not be a fan of Tim Leary or of drugs in general. Tobacco kills,guns,kill,Perscription drugs kill (sometimes) but only idiots OD on LSD,pot,shrooms,and the like ,so perhaps YOU should not do it as it would probably kill you.
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Anonymous
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Learyfan]
#1537864 - 05/10/03 08:59 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Pardon me but I think I can speak intelligently on the subject without resorting to derision.
The fact is, as has been mentioned, that there are plenty of things that can harm you. Passing laws because it limits harm is the poorest reason in some cases.
Drug laws are one of the best examples of that.
Under your premise ALL drugs should be outlawed because ALL drugs can cause harm.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Learyfan]
#1538041 - 05/10/03 10:06 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Until 100% of the human populous can take LSD safely it should stay locked away from everyone. Ask Syd Barrett if LSD is good for you...........if you can find him.
Strangely enough...I feel that way about asprin...and advil, and every prescription drug that has been pushed on the american public....ever been to a doctor that gave samples to you until you could get your scrip filled....experimental...still, real patients are the last testing ground before FDA aproval....
Hey...I feel that way about hormones that they inject cattle with in order to fatten them up and get them to produce more milk...the shit has residual effects and the FDA says 'it's ok, you dont consume it directly'....people didnt directly consume Dioxin Orange or DDT either, look at what had happened to them and the bald eagle.
Lock away liquor, beer and wine, what good have they done for society....tell me a bit about LSD and the dangers of the drug....and for each I'll show you 10 scrips that have worse and longerlasting effects...Zomax....I like that one....I was a guinea pig....I gotta beef...
Thanks....
P#1
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ]
#1538043 - 05/10/03 10:09 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Under your premise ALL drugs should be outlawed because ALL drugs can cause harm.
I'm begining to change my stance on this....I now believe that all outlaws should be drugged.... P#1
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atomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1538237 - 05/10/03 11:43 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Until 100% of the human populous can take LSD safely it should stay locked away from everyone"
-that would make for a very weak and stupid society, allowing the government to control your free will.......personally, i dont give a fuck if a substance hurts someone, its their life, they can do whatever they want as long as they are educated to the harms of the substance.
if you want to outlaw all harmful drugs, then you should also outlaw all harmful activities: ie- driving, sports, watching tv, eating fatty foods,
welcome to hell.
-------------------- enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.
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ganesh
stranger still
Registered: 10/05/02
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The problem is - legalization means everything would be sold everywhere - and also advertised and shoved down peoples throats. I agree that people should take responsibility for themselves but from my experience they dont seem to... Could you imagine the amount of people who would sue the LSD companies for stupid things they do whilst on a trip?? Or every person who overdoses on heroin - insurance companies would not be able to handle it. Here in Australia the tobacco companies are facing massive litigation from sufferers of lung cancer - and are losing millions of dollars in payouts. See the thing is - most people on this board are very educated about drugs and know whats going on and therefore it seems hard to comphrehend anything but good effects from legalisation.
That's why I personally am for decriminilization of all drugs - that is - legal to consume or possess however not legal to sell at the corner store. That would mean it would be legal to pick mushrooms, grow pot and consume them wherever the hell you want to - without shoving them down peoples throats through massive marketing campaigns. Just my opinion though.....
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ganesh]
#1538297 - 05/11/03 12:23 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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What about production? Cuz I think I want is for them to be cheaper and safer, pure stuff, exact measure, high grade etc.
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silversoul7
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ganesh]
#1538355 - 05/11/03 12:59 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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The problem is - legalization means everything would be sold everywhere - and also advertised and shoved down peoples throats.
Says who? There are major restrictions on where you can advertise and sell alcohol or tobacco, why couldn't there be similar restrictions on every drug?
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Could you imagine the amount of people who would sue the LSD companies for stupid things they do whilst on a trip?? Or every person who overdoses on heroin - insurance companies would not be able to handle it.
That's why we have Surgeon General's warnings.
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See the thing is - most people on this board are very educated about drugs and know whats going on and therefore it seems hard to comphrehend anything but good effects from legalisation.
And if drugs were legalized, that information could be more readily available to the public.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ganesh]
#1538363 - 05/11/03 01:03 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Or every person who overdoses on heroin
This is an interesting article explaining why pure heroin doesn't usually cause any problems with overdose.
That's why I personally am for decriminilization of all drugs
This still leaves supply in the hands of gangsters tho.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,506507,00.html
On April 3 1924, a group of American congressmen held an official hearing to consider the future of heroin. They took sworn evidence from experts, including the US surgeon general, Rupert Blue, who appeared in person to tell their committee that heroin was poisonous and caused insanity and that it was particularly likely to kill since its toxic dose was only slightly greater than its therapeutic dose.
They heard, too, from specialist doctors, such as Alexander Lambert of New York's Bellevue hospital, who explained that "the herd instinct is obliterated by heroin, and the herd instincts are the ones which control the moral sense ... Heroin makes much quicker the muscular reaction and therefore is used by criminals to inflate them, because they are not only more daring, but their muscular reflexes are quicker." Senior police, a prison governor and health officials all added their voices. Dr S Dana Hubbard, of the New York City health department, captured the heart of the evidence: "Heroin addicts spring from sin and crime ... Society in general must protect itself from the influence of evil, and there is no greater peril than heroin."
The congressmen had heard much of this before and now they acted decisively. They resolved to stop the manufacture and use of heroin for any purpose in the United States and to launch a worldwide campaign of prohibition to try to prevent its manufacture or use anywhere in the world. Within two months, their proposal had been passed into law with the unanimous backing of both houses of the US Congress. The war against drugs was born.
To understand this war and to understand the problems of heroin in particular, you need to grasp one core fact. In the words of Professor Arnold Trebach, the veteran specialist in the study of illicit drugs: "Virtually every 'fact' testified to under oath by the medical and criminological experts in 1924 ... was unsupported by any sound evidence." Indeed, nearly all of it is now directly and entirely contradicted by plentiful research from all over the world. The first casualty of this war was truth and yet, 77 years later, the war continues, more vigorous than ever, arguably the longest-running conflict on earth.
Drugs and fear go hand in hand. The war against drugs is frightening - but not, in reality, for the reasons which are claimed by its generals. The untold truth about this war, which has now sucked in every country in the developed world, is that it creates the very problem which it claims to solve. The entire strategy is a hoax, with the same effect as an air force which bombs its own cities instead of its enemy's. You have to go back to the trenches of Flanders to find generals who have been so incompetent, so dishonest, so awesomely destructive towards those for whom they claim to care.
The core point is that the death and sickness and moral collapse which are associated with class A drugs are, in truth, generally the result not of the drugs themselves but of the black market on which they are sold as a result of our strategy of prohibition. In comparison, the drugs themselves are safe, and we could turn around the epidemic of illness and death and crime if only we legalised them. However, it is a contemporary heresy to say this, and so the overwhelming evidence of this war's self-destructive futility is exiled from almost all public debate now, just as it was when those congressmen met.
Take heroin as a single example. And it's a tough example. In medical terms, it is simply an opiate, technically known as diamorphine, which metabolises into morphine once it enters its user's body. But, in terms of the war against drugs, it is the most frightening of all enemies. Remember all that those congressmen were told about "the great peril". Remember the Thatcher government's multimillion pound campaign under the slogan "Heroin screws you up". Think of Tony Blair at the 1999 Labour party conference fulminating about the "drug menace" or of William Hague last year calling for "a stronger, firmer, harder attack on drugs than we have ever seen before". And now look at the evidence.
Start with the allegation that heroin damages the minds and bodies of those who use it, and consider the biggest study of opiate use ever conducted, on 861 patients at Philadelphia General hospital in the 20s. It concluded that they suffered no physical harm of any kind. Their weight, skin condition and dental health were all unaffected. "There is no evidence of change in the circulatory, hepatic, renal or endocrine functions. When it is considered that some of these subjects had been addicted for at least five years, some of them for as long as 20 years, these negative observations are highly significant."
Check with Martindale, the standard medical reference book, which records that heroin is used for the control of severe pain in children and adults, including the frail, the elderly and women in labour. It is even injected into premature babies who are recovering from operations. Martindale records no sign of these patients being damaged or morally degraded or becoming criminally deviant or simply insane. It records instead that, so far as harm is concerned, there can be problems with nausea and constipation.
Or go back to the history of "therapeutic addicts" who became addicted to morphine after operations and who were given a clean supply for as long as their addiction lasted. Enid Bagnold, for example, who wrote the delightful children's novel, National Velvet, was what our politicians now would call "a junkie", who was prescribed morphine after a hip operation and then spent 12 years injecting up to 350mg a day. Enid never - as far as history records - mugged a single person or lost her "herd instinct", but died quietly in bed at the age of 91. Opiate addiction was once so common among soldiers in Europe and the United States who had undergone battlefield surgery that it was known as "the soldiers' disease". They spent years on a legal supply of the drug - and it did them no damage.
We cannot find any medical research from any source which will support the international governmental contention that heroin harms the body or mind of its users. Nor can we find any trace of our government or the American government or any other ever presenting or referring to any credible version of any such research. On the contrary, all of the available research agrees that, so far as harm is concerned, heroin is likely to cause some nausea and possibly severe constipation and that is all. In the words of a 1965 New York study by Dr Richard Brotman: "Medical knowledge has long since laid to rest the myth that opiates observably harm the body." Peanut butter, cream and sugar, for example, are all far more likely to damage the health of their users.
Now, move on to the allegation that heroin kills its users. The evidence is clear: you can fatally overdose on heroin. But the evidence is equally clear, that - contrary to the claims of politicians - it is not particularly easy to do so. Opiates tend to suppress breathing, and doctors who prescribe them for pain relief take advantage of this to help patients with lung problems. But the surprising truth is that, in order to use opiates to suppress breathing to the point of death, you have to exceed the normal dose to an extreme degree. Heroin is unusually safe, because - contrary to what those US congressmen were told in 1924 - the gap between a therapeutic dose and a fatal dose is unusually wide.
Listen, for example, to Dr Teresa Tate, who has prescribed heroin and morphine for 25 years, first as a cancer doctor and now as medical adviser to Marie Curie Cancer Care. We asked her to compare heroin with paracetamol, legally available without prescription. She told us: "I think that most doctors would tell you that paracetamol is actually quite a dangerous drug when used in overdose; it has a fixed upper limit for its total dose in 24 hours and if you exceed that, perhaps doubling it, you can certainly put yourself at great risk of liver failure and of death, whereas with diamorphine, should you double the dose that you normally were taking, I think the consequence would be to be sleepy for a while and quite possibly not much more than that and certainly no permanent damage as a result." Contrary to the loudly expressed view of so many politicians, this specialist of 25 years' experience told us that when heroin is properly used by doctors, it is "a very safe drug".
Until the American prohibitionists closed him down in the 20s, Dr Willis Butler ran a famous clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana, for old soldiers and others who had become addicted to morphine after operations. Among his patients, he included four doctors, two church ministers, two retired judges, an attorney, an architect, a newspaper editor, a musician from the symphony orchestra, a printer, two glass blowers and the mother of the commissioner of police. None of them showed any ill effect from the years which they spent on Dr Butler's morphine. None of them died as a result of his prescriptions. And, as Dr Butler later recalled: "I never found one we could give an overdose to, even if we had wanted to. I saw one man take 12 grains intravenously at one time. He stood up and said: 'There, that's just fine,' and went on about his business."
Heroin can be highly addictive - which is a very good reason not to start taking it. In extreme doses, it can kill. But the truth which has been trampled under the cavalry of the drug warriors is that, properly prescribed, pure heroin is a benign drug. The late Professor Norman Zinberg, who for years led the study of drug addiction at Harvard Medical School, saw the lies beneath the rhetoric: "To buttress our current programme, official agencies, led originally by the old Federal Bureau of Narcotics, have constructed myth after myth. When pushers in schoolyards, 'drug progression', drugs turning brains to jelly, and other tales of horror are not supported by facts, they postulate and publicise others: 'drugs affect chromosomes'; 'drugs are a contagious disease'. Officials go on manufacturing myths such as the chromosome scare long after they are disproved on the self-righteous assumption that if they have scared one kid off using drugs, it was worth the lie."
Take away the lies and the real danger becomes clear - not the drugs, but the black market which has been created directly by the policy of prohibition. If ever there is a war crimes trial to punish the generals who have gloried in this slaughter of the innocent, the culprits should be made to carve out in stone: "There is no drug known to man which becomes safer when its production and distribution are handed over to criminals."
Heroin, so benign in the hands of doctors, becomes highly dangerous when it is cut by black-market dealers - with paracetamol, drain cleaner, sand, sugar, starch, powdered milk, talcum powder, coffee, brick dust, cement dust, gravy powder, face powder or curry powder. None of these adulterants was ever intended to be injected into human veins. Some of them, such as drain cleaner, are simply toxic and poison their users. Others - sand or brick dust - are carried into tiny capillaries and digital blood vessels where they form clots, cutting off the supply of blood to fingers or toes. Very rapidly, venous gangrene sets in, the tissue starts to die, the fingers or toes go black and then have only one destiny: amputation. Needless suffering - inflicted not by heroin, but by its black-market adulterants.
Street buyers cannot afford to waste any heroin - and for that reason, they start to inject it, because smoking or snorting it is inefficient. The Oxford Handbook of Clinical Medicine records that a large proportion of the illness experienced by black-market heroin addicts is caused by wound infection, septicaemia, and infective endocarditis, all due to unhygienic injection technique. Street users invariably suffer abscesses, some of them of quite terrifying size, from injecting with infected needles or drugs. Those who inject repeatedly into the same veins or arteries will suffer aneurisms - the walls of the artery will weaken and bulge; sometimes they will start to leak blood under the skin; sometimes, these weakened arteries will become infected by a dirty needle and rupture the skin, leaving the user to bleed to death.
In the mid 90s, the World Health Organisation estimated that 40% of recent Aids cases internationally had been caused by drug users sharing injecting equipment. The British record on Aids is better because in the late 80s the government quietly broke with its prohibition philosophy and started to provide clean needles. Nevertheless, by June last year, 1,000 black-market drug users in this country had died of Aids which was believed to have been contracted from dirty needles. More needless misery and death.
Far worse, however, is the spread of hepatitis C, which can kill by causing cirrhosis and sometimes cancer in the liver. The official estimate is that 300,000 people in this country are now infected. Dr Tom Waller, who chairs Action on Hepatitis C, says the truth is likely to be much worse. And almost all of these victims are black-market drug users who contracted the disease by sharing dirty injecting equipment. Dr Waller says there is now a "major epidemic", threatening the lives of "a great many people". Needlessly.
Street buyers buy blind and so they will overdose accidentally: they have no way of telling how much heroin there is in their deal. Dr Russell Newcombe, senior lecturer in addiction studies at John Moores University in Liverpool, has found the purity of street heroin varying from 20% to 90%. "Users can accidentally take three or four times as much as they are planning to," he says. It is peculiarly ironic that governments set out to protect their people from a drug which they claim is dangerous by denying them any of the safeguards and information which they insist must apply to the consumption of drugs which they know to be harmless. (Compare, for example, the mandatory information on the side of a bottle of vitamin C tablets with the information available to a black-market heroin user.)
Street buyers often run short of supplies - and so they mix their drug with anything else they can get their hands on, particularly alcohol. Heroin may be benign, but if you mix it with a bottle of vodka or a handful of sedatives, your breathing is likely to become extremely depressed. Or it may just stop. In any event, whether it is poisonous adulterants or injected infection; whether it is death by accidental overdose or death by polydrug use: it is the black market which lies at the root of the danger. The healthiest route, of course, is not to take the drug at all: but for those who are addicted, prohibition inflicts danger and death. Needlessly. Water would become dangerous if it were banned and handed over to a criminal black market.
The same logic applies to drugs which, unlike heroin, are inherently harmful - such as alcohol, which is implicated in organic damage (liver) and social problems (violence, dangerous driving). American bootleggers brewed their moonshine with adulterants such as methylated spirits, which can cause blindness. (Hence the proliferation of blind blues singers.) And there are documented cases of drinkers during prohibition injecting alcohol, with all of the attendant dangers. (It is instructive to look back on the prohibitionists' efforts to justify their war against alcohol with hugely inflated statements of its danger. In his book on the history of drugs, Emperors of Dreams, Mike Jay records the claims that alcohol was an "environmental poison" which generated cretinism and several otherwise unrecognised syndromes including "blastophoric degeneration" and "alcoholic diathesis".)
The risks of consuming LSD and ecstasy are increased enormously by their illegal and unsupervised manufacture. Nobody knows what they are swallowing. Yet, when a Brighton company developed a test to check the purity of ecstasy, the government's drugs adviser, Keith Hellawell (whose contract has just been suspended), condemned it and warned that the company risked prosecution. It is the same with black-market amphetamines: speed alone may not kill, but speed with a blindfold is highly likely to finish you off.
In the same way, the classic signs of social exclusion among addicts are the product not of their drug but of the illegality of the drug. If addicts fail to work, it is not because heroin has made them work-shy, but because they spend every waking minute of the day hustling. If addicts break the law, it is not because the drug has corrupted their morality, but because they are forced to steal to pay black-market prices. If addicts are thin, it is not because the drug has stripped away their flesh, but because they spend every last cent on their habit and have nothing left for food. Over and over again, it is the black market, which has been created by the politicians, which does the damage.
Keith Hellawell, the man to whom the government turned for advice on drugs, appeared to know none of this. When we interviewed him for a television programme, he insisted that heroin itself was dangerous and then repeatedly dodged requests to come up with any evidence at all to justify his claim. Subsequently, when we offered his department as much time as it would like to find any evidence, it failed to come up with anything at all and passed the question to the Department of Health, which also failed. It is fair to conclude that the government's former drugs adviser did not know the first thing about heroin.
The confusion between the effect of the drug and the effect of the black market is exacerbated not only because of government policy but also because government statistics completely ignore this distinction, with the result that teams of researchers study drug policy, use compromised statistics and simply recycle the confusion, thus providing politicians with yet more false fuel for their fire. Home Office figures on drug deaths, for example, are hopelessly compromised. Eighteen months ago, the Department of Health, which might have been expected to know better, produced new guidelines for doctors dealing with drug users and recorded the following: "Generally there is a greater prevalence of certain illnesses among the drug misusing population, including viral hepatitis, bacterial endocarditis, HIV, tuberculosis, septicaemia, pneumonia, deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary emboli, abscesses and dental disease." All of it true of the black market. None of it true of the drug. No attempt to make the distinction.
The black market damages not only drug users but the whole community. Britain looks back at the American prohibition of alcohol in the 20s and shudders at the stupidity of a policy which generated such a catastrophic crimewave. Yet in this country, now, the prohibition of drugs has generated a crime boom of staggering proportions. Research suggests that in England and Wales, a hard core of black-market users is responsible for some ?1.5bn worth of burglary, theft and shoplifting each year - they are stealing ?3.5m worth of property a day. As a single example, Brighton police told us they estimate that 75% of their property crime is committed by black-market drug users trying to fund their habit. And yet governments refuse to be tough on the cause of this crime: their own prohibition policy.
The global version of this damage was put succinctly by Senator Gomez Hurtado, former Colombian ambassador to France and a high court judge, who told a 1993 conference: "Forget about drug deaths and acquisitive crime, about addiction and Aids. All this pales into insignificance before the prospect facing the liberal societies of the west, like a rabbit in the headlights of an oncoming car. The income of the drug barons is an annual $500,000m, greater than the American defence budget. With this financial muscle they can suborn all the institutions of the state and, if the state resists, with this fortune they can purchase the firepower to outgun it. We are threatened with a return to the dark ages of rule by the gang. If the west relishes the yoke of the tyrant and the bully, current drug policies promote that end."
Having attacked and maimed and killed the very people they claimed to be protecting; having inflicted a crime wave on the same communities which they said they were defending; having run up a bill which now costs us some ?1.7bn a year in this country alone: this war's generals might yet have some claim to respect if they were able to show that they had succeeded in their original objective of stopping or, at least, of cutting the supply of prohibited drugs. They cannot.
In December 1999, the chief constable of Cleveland police, Barry Shaw, produced a progress report on the 1971 Misuse of Drugs Act, which marked the final arrival of US drugs prohibition in this country: "There is overwhelming evidence to show that the prohibition-based policy in this country since 1971 has not been effective in controlling the availability or use of proscribed drugs. If there is indeed a war against drugs, it is not being won ... Illegal drugs are freely available, their price is dropping and their use is growing. It seems fair to say that violation of the law is endemic, and the problem seems to be getting worse despite our best efforts."
Mr Shaw was able to point to a cascade of evidence to support his view: between 1987 and 1997, there had been a tenfold increase in the seizure of illicit drugs, and yet the supply on the streets was so strong that the price of these drugs had kept dropping; in 1970, only 15% of people had used an illegal drug, but by 1995, 45% had; in 1970, 9,000 people were convicted of a drugs offence but in 1995 94,000 were. The Home Office responded to the chief constable's report with complete silence: they refused even to acknowledge receiving it. Internal reports from the American Drugs Enforcement Agency confirm the chief constable's conclusion. (They say Britain now produces so much cannabis that we actually export it to Holland.)
Prohibition has not merely failed to cut the supply of illicit drugs: it has actively spread drug use. The easiest way for new users to fund their habit is to sell drugs and consume the profit; so they go out and find new users to sell to; so it is that when one child in the classroom starts using, others soon join in; one user in the street and neighbours soon follow. Black-market drug use spreads geometrically. The Health Education Authority in 1995 found that 70% of people aged between 11 and 35 had been offered drugs at some time. Pushers push. When Britain began to impose prohibition of heroin, in 1968, there were fewer then 500 heroin addicts in Britain - a few jazz musicians, some poets, some Soho Chinese. Now, the Home Office says there may be as many as 500,000. This is pyramid selling at its most brilliantly effective.
In private, the Home Office's best defence is that it is so short of reliable intelligence on drugs that nobody can finally prove that the war is lost: we simply don't know how much heroin or cocaine is imported, or how many people are using it.
Keith Hellawell argued that the 30 years since the Misuse of Drugs Act do not really count, because, until he took over, British governments did not have a real strategy. He told us he was supporting new international tactics (which he could not divulge) and was now seeing figures (which he could not give us) to suggest finally they were going to succeed. This recalls earlier declarations that "We have turned the corner on drug addiction" (President Nixon, 1973), or "Heroin availability continues to shrink" (DEA, 1978). In the meantime, world heroin production has tripled in the past decade, cocaine production has doubled and, in the foreign secretary's Blackburn constituency, police say drug use in the Asian community has soared by 300% in four years.
But the underlying point is even more worrying: once you understand that the real danger comes from the black market and not from the drug, you can see that even if, with some magic formula, the generals started to cut the supply of these drugs, the result would be disastrous. The price of heroin, for example, would start to rise and, since there is no evidence at all that heroin addicts cut their consumption to fit their wallets, they would have to commit more crime to fund their habits. And if the dealers also responded like good entrepreneurs, they would try to keep their prices down by adding even more pollutants to the heroin, thus increasing the health risks to users.
This government has not begun to consider legalisation. No matter the truth about the danger and the death, no matter the truth about the cause of crime, the position is, as Jack Straw put it to the 1997 Labour conference: "We will not decriminalise, legalise or legitimise the use of drugs." Why? The obvious answer was offered to us by Paul Flynn, Labour backbencher and staunch opponent of prohibition: "It is being fuelled by politicians who are vote gluttons, who believe that there is popularity and votes to be gained by appearing to be tough on drugs."
While Keith Hellawell and other prohibitionists are embarrassed by their screaming lack of success, those who want to legalise can point to clear evidence that providing a clean supply of drugs will help with the physical and mental health of users, will cut crime in the community and drain the life out of the black market.
The Swiss, for example, in 1997 reported on a three-year experiment in which they had prescribed heroin to 1,146 addicts in 18 locations. They found: "Individual health and social circumstances improved drastically ... The improvements in physical health which occurred during treatment with heroin proved to be stable over the course of one and a half years and in some cases continued to increase (in physical terms, this relates especially to general and nutritional status and injection- related skin diseases) ... In the psychiatric area, depressive states in particular continued to regress, as well as anxiety states and delusional disorders ... The mortality of untreated patients is markedly higher." They also reported dramatic improvements in the social stability of the addicts, including a steep fall in crime.
There are equally impressive results from similar projects in Holland and Luxembourg and Naples and, also, in Britain. In Liverpool, during the early 1990s, Dr John Marks used a special Home Office licence to prescribe heroin to addicts. Police reported a 96% reduction in acquisitive crime among a group of addict patients. Deaths from locally acquired HIV infection and drug-related overdoses fell to zero. But, under intense pressure from the government, the project was closed down. In its 10 years' work, not one of its patients had died. In the first two years after it was closed, 41 died.
There is room for debate about detail. Should we supply legalised drugs through GPs or specialist clinics or pharmacists? Should we continue to supply opiate substitutes, such as methadone, as well as heroin? Should the supply be entirely free of charge to guarantee the extinction of the black market? How would we use the hundreds of millions of pounds which would be released by the "peace dividend"? But, if we have any compassion for our drug users, if we have any intention of tackling the causes of crime, if we have any honesty left in our body politic, there is no longer any room for debate about the principle. Continue the war against drugs? Just say no.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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ganesh
stranger still
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 77
Loc: cloud seven
Last seen: 17 years, 5 days
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1538460 - 05/11/03 02:03 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Points taken. I stand corrected.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1538628 - 05/11/03 06:15 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm begining to change my stance on this....I now believe that all outlaws should be drugged....
You have finally said something sensible.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
Registered: 11/17/02
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Wow, great article Alex123. I actully read it all Those are some good points, most people dont know them because we're so used to thinking that only the soft drugs are safe. I'm not saying heroin is good but it'd be better for users if legal (I still wouldn't use it). If you make a chart compairing the "hardness" of drugs alcohol is up there w/ heroin and crack and we can do that fine.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm begining to change my stance on this....I now believe that all outlaws should be drugged....
You have finally said something sensible.
**edit:whoops...I mis read my own statement...I'll let the post stay...(f&%*n moron) dont just take it out of context....asprin is included and maybe even dopey people as well... What you fal to see is that in this land of the free...by telling me I can no use a device for my own self destruction, what ever it may be, you are taking away my freedom and in doing this it opens the door to rob us all of all others... lets say that something you enjoy is to be outlawed....well you would need all the support that you can get, this thing really does no harm, but someone out there just doesnt like the fact that others use it...suppose I am an avid smoker, it also is about to be outlawed, and you dont happen to like smoking and I do not care for your 'drug'...well, we are both about to loose something we enjoy, would it make more sense to stand together on both issues or to fight against each other so that we all loose... You shouldnt punish the whole because of one or two irresponsible individuals...you punish those individuals. but because you obviously fit inthe category of the majority...power mad, manipulative and controlling, you feel that every one shhould loose because 1% of the population is unable to handle something....ok...so advise them not to try it again. after all...who will fight for your rights when we are all criminals because of the choices we make that cause no harm to others....if there is no victiom is there a crime? P#1
Edited by Prisoner#1 (05/11/03 02:35 PM)
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Meat_Log_Smurf
FumbDuck
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 1,144
Loc: BFE
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Cracka_X]
#1539174 - 05/11/03 02:33 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I feel the same cracka. Bye the way your avatar is hilarious. Oh and nasty.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: DailyPot]
#1539175 - 05/11/03 02:33 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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there are no soft drugs....Asprin is the gate way drug....ever listen to a little kid, 'I'm sick I need some medicine'...it's the start, they parade it on TV just as they do beer and wine comercials. Prescription drugs are just as addictive as any other, ever notice how many people are hooked on 'non-addictive' drugs...japan has even banned the use of vicks inhalers...antibiotics, not even an enjoyable drug but they criple your bodys ability to fight infection and help the virii and bacteria the become stronger and more resistant...now we need new drugs to fight them
ever wonder why herbal remedies can not get FDA aproval and dangerous addictive drugs can? Pfizer has lots of money...the luy selling horney goat weed doesnt....
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atomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1540297 - 05/11/03 10:59 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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social narcotics are the true gateways drugs.
-------------------- enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1541365 - 05/12/03 09:53 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I find that to be an interesting point of view for someone on this board. What's your opinion on blanket legalisation of other drugs - not cannabis, but meth, cocaine or other opiates for example
Bah. Sorry. Havent checked boards in awhile here...I'm not going to say that legalizing all drugs is good. I'm sorry. But thats just a silly statement to make.
Whether or not you people want to admit it, drugs CAN be harmful. I use them on a daily basis with little or no ill effects, but there are many people who CANT. Sure, pot should be legal. Should heroin? Fuck no. I can see giving it to addicts...And needle exchange...
But to just sell heroin/cocaine/methamphetamine/LSD to anyone on the street? Please...I could see this working in some countries. But not in America. People in fucking america are getting addicted to fucking nasal spray, for chrissakes. And you want to let them loose on the powders? It will NEVER happen. Why not work towards something meaninful, like decriminalizing pot?
I know, some of you (Libertarians) say that "Well, My liberties are being infringed! Thats wrong!". Sorry, its called THE PUBLIC GOOD. Feel free to argue this point, but the fact that heroin is illegal, creates LESS addicts, not more. Yes! LESS! Now, say said smack is available at your neighborhood corner store. You really think little 11 year old Jimmy wont be standin' outside asking anyone who looks cool, "Hey man, you wanna run inside and get me a baggie?" Just like they are now with cigarettes and beer...Degenerate little fucks. (The kids! Not you guys. I love you guys. Even if you are a bit misguided.)
Now, I'm sure your all going call me the DEA or some nonsense like that, because I believe that some drugs are harmful. But FUCK you. Heh. Ciao....
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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drugs CAN be harmful.
So can driving a car, having sex, crossing the road etc.
But to just sell heroin/cocaine/methamphetamine/LSD to anyone on the street?
100 years ago you could buy heroin over the counter. It was no bigger a deal than aspirin. 40 years ago LSD was legal. Was society in a state of total collapse in those days? Was the drug problem any worse than it is today? Of course not.
but the fact that heroin is illegal, creates LESS addicts, not more
In the UK in 1968 when heroin could be legally prescribed there were 500 addicts in the country. After 30 years of rabid criminalisation there are 500,000. Making heroin illegal has made it's price skyrocket. It encourages people to push heroin to make enough money to buy it. If it cost 20 cents a bag, what need would there be for crime?
You really think little 11 year old Jimmy wont be standin' outside asking anyone who looks cool, "Hey man, you wanna run inside and get me a baggie?"
The country with the most draconian drug laws in Europe is the UK, it also has the highest rates of drug abuse. Holland, where the laws are relaxed has far fewer problems.
If you made all drugs disappear tomorrow a tiny minority of kids would still be sniffing petrol and butane gas. That's life. You can't legislate on the basis of the most stupid members in society.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1541503 - 05/12/03 11:18 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
So can driving a car, having sex, crossing the road etc.
Thats nonsense. Tell me that heroin is no more dangerous than crossing the road. Tell me that....
Quote:
100 years ago you could buy heroin over the counter. It was no bigger a deal than aspirin.
This again, is bullshit. Housewives across the country were dosing their children with heroin to make them sleep. A whole generation of people after the civil war were addicted terribly to heroin. Refute that...
Quote:
If it cost 20 cents a bag, what need would there be for crime?
Now, no statistics. Lets use common sense. If you make heroin available to a wider % of the population, not to mention cheaper, you REALLY think that more people wont use? C'mon...Use your head...Thats like saying MORE people drank liquor during prohibition. Just Not True.
Quote:
The country with the most draconian drug laws in Europe is the UK, it also has the highest rates of drug abuse. Holland, where the laws are relaxed has far fewer problems.
Like I said, this may work in other countries. I guarantee you it will not work here. Americans are a different breed than anyone else. Ignorant, Arrogant, and Addicted. Americans have invented more addictions than the rest of the world combined, I'm sure. Holland is NOT America, make no mistake.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Anonymous
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Thats nonsense. Tell me that heroin is no more dangerous than crossing the road. Tell me that....
car accidents have killed more people than all the wars we've fought in our history, if they are so dangerous, why are they still legal?
Now, no statistics. Lets use common sense. If you make heroin available to a wider % of the population, not to mention cheaper, you REALLY think that more people wont use? C'mon...Use your head...Thats like saying MORE people drank liquor during prohibition. Just Not True.
personnal responsiblity is not YOUR responsibilty to regulate.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ]
#1541595 - 05/12/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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If it affects me, I'm damn well going to work towards MY best interests. I have no desire to have 11 year old boys propositioning me for heroin outside 7/11. I dont want to some crazy mad fucking hippie running up to my car at a stop light telling me god told him this, or god told him that. And I Sure as HELL dont want to trip over junkies on my way into Mcdonalds. Ya know?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Azmodeus
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1541684 - 05/12/03 12:30 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Has anyone else had similar experiences of LSD use modifying behaviour in a positive manner?
LSD took my ego, chewed it up, swallowed it, and then shit it out again.... It fucked me up for at least 6 months after i quit, but the intensity of emotion, and experienses, have changed me forever.
In the end i am a much stronger individual for it. Psycadelics effect me on much lower doses than before. And i have a less "social"(?!) view of life. Meaning i wish to live outside large society in harmony with nature.
Positive?!- not in the governments eyes im sure. I feel its overall effects were positive, despite the MANY negative aspects.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Azmodeus]
#1541708 - 05/12/03 12:36 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was joking guys!
I just made a post from the point of view of someone who had their head up thier ass. Did you like my "get an education before you make such statements" comment? That was especially pompous.
Sorry for the confusion.
Legalize ALL victimless "crimes".
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Azmodeus
Seeker
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Quote:
Thats nonsense. Tell me that heroin is no more dangerous than crossing the road. Tell me that....
Heroin is no more dangerous than crossing the road. With the knowledge i have of heroin, i won't try it. I cross the road everyday, i was almost hit yesterday. Why would i do heroin if shrooms and MJ are legall, and i have knowledge of all substances?!
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Azmodeus
Seeker
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Quote:
100 years ago you could buy heroin over the counter. It was no bigger a deal than aspirin.
This again, is bullshit. Housewives across the country were dosing their children with heroin to make them sleep. A whole generation of people after the civil war were addicted terribly to heroin. Refute that...
Were those parents dosing thier children educated about heroin? Are there alternate natural sources that could be used if they were?
I don't think many people would use coke or heroin, if education and natural entheogens were also available.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Thats nonsense. Tell me that heroin is no more dangerous than crossing the road. Tell me that....
In what sense do you mean "more dangerous"? Certainly more people are killed in traffic accidents every year than die from heroin. And remember that's illegal contaminated heroin that is many times more dangerous to use than pure legal heroin.
A whole generation of people after the civil war were addicted terribly to heroin.
Have you read the article I posted above? btw, it was opium - heroin wasn't invented at that time.
And as the article i posted pointed out, being addicted when you have a pure clean source of cheap heroin is no big problem. You can lead a perfectly healthy life.
If you make heroin available to a wider % of the population, not to mention cheaper, you REALLY think that more people wont use?
More people using isn't the problem. People abusing is the problem. How many people who use alcohol become alcoholics? Do you think the number of alcoholics would decrease if you banned alcohol? Do you think prohibition works in decreasing the number of people abusing drugs?
I guarantee you it will not work here
It already has. Heroin and opium were legal for decades.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Azmodeus
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1541775 - 05/12/03 01:02 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Everyone says if drugs were legalised many people would become coke and heroin addicts.
I disagree. If drug information was taught in highschool, combined with many entheogens that would be available, you wouldn't need or really want to use coke, or heroin.
Its the prohibition that creates the problem. All the war on drugs has done is replace the cost and availability of weed for coke.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1541843 - 05/12/03 01:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Have you read the article I posted above? btw, it was opium - heroin wasn't invented at that time.
Your right, your right. It was morphine. My mistake. Heroin was mass-marketed by Bayer 30 years later. THAT was when terrible heroin addiction kicked in.
Quote:
And as the article i posted pointed out, being addicted when you have a pure clean source of cheap heroin is no big problem. You can lead a perfectly healthy life.
I'm sorry. I know plenty of people who have used heroin for years and years. They all wish they would never have started. Tell me they lead perfectly happy lives. Nonsense....Like having 100% pure heroin would have made them happy people. Where's the logic there?
Quote:
Do you think the number of alcoholics would decrease if you banned alcohol?"
Do I think the number of current alcoholics would lower? No. Do I think LESS people would become alcoholics? Of course....Simple math says that if less people hav access to a substance, less people will become addicted to it.
Quote:
It already has. Heroin and opium were legal for decades.
And, as we've already establised, those drugs, during the time they were legal, did terrible damage to people. It did NOT work. That is a fact, not an opinion. Should you care for sources, I'll post them. Just ask.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Azmodeus]
#1541846 - 05/12/03 01:19 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
If drug information was taught in highschool, combined with many entheogens that would be available, you wouldn't need or really want to use coke, or heroin.
I was taught all about drugs in school. Every year...And I still use...Why is that?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Azmodeus
Seeker
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Because your drug education was a farce. I think your very ignorant for using meth so often, but with your non-drug education, and the drugwar limiting available substances, i dont really blame ya. My non-drug education prevented me from trying until grade 12, and then i jumped into LSD use after smoking pot awhile....also very ignorant, but i wan't properly educated on aleternate substances, or even teh effects of the ones i had tried. This is the problem, and it always will be until we accept natural entheogens as legitimate and teach about thier properties to suseptible youth, lest we end up like our society today.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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THAT was when terrible heroin addiction kicked in.
Among a tiny, tiny minority. Most people used it like they used aspirin.
Nonsense....Like having 100% pure heroin would have made them happy people
No one thing can make you a "happy person". What it would do would enable them to lead normal lives instead of selling their arse on the street to earn enough money to fix. Diabetics are dependent on drugs too - why don't you see them robbing houses and getting involved in prostitution? Could it be because the drugs they need are legal?
There are many thousands of ex-soldiers who were addicted to heroin during treatment for war wounds. With clean pure supplies of heroin prescribed to them they lead healthy, active lives. I've seen a documentary with one 61 year old heroin addict was bench pressing 300lbs. Worked 12 hour days and injected once a day or every other day - heroin simply wasn't a problem in his life. If he'd had to find heroin on the street he would probably have died a long time ago. The black market is the danger, not the heroin.
And, as we've already establised, those drugs, during the time they were legal, did terrible damage to people
Not really. Pure heroin doesn't cause "terrible damage" to people. It's one of the most benign drugs on earth. It's addictive yes and I wouldn't advise anyone to get addicted to anything but "terrible damage"? No.
Heroin wasn't made illegal because of it's dangers to the public - it was made illegal for purely political reasons. Much like LSD was.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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mycophat
member
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Azmodeus]
#1542218 - 05/12/03 03:52 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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{Madtowntripper} You may be able to post links to all kinds of "sources" but from reading your posts I can clearly see that you dont really understand what we are trying to say. You hardly even seem to have a good grasp on "your" side of the debate,meaning you dont know or understand exactly what it is your fighting for or about.
11 yr old boys would probably NOT be going to the corner store looking for smack. And even if they did only a complete friggen moron would actually get it for them. And lets say some 11 yr old kid (I dont know why you focused on boys but you might want to think about getting help) DID get his hands on some well if he died how many of his friends do you think would try it?.....Or in the unlikely event he knew about proper dosage (or had an idiotic adult there to help him) and tried some what do you think would happen...I'll tell ya he would probably get sick as a phuck and NEVER touch the shit again. Almost anybody who has experimented with chewing tobacco as a child will agree.
Also things today are not as they used to be...It used to be that the popular kids all smoked now its a little different as most popular kids not only dont smoke but pick on those who do.
Like I said before if they did legalize drugs then yes alot of people will die there is no denying that. But I dont think that trend would not last very long at all and besides in a "free" country people should be allowed to kill themselves as it is our most basic "freedom" as human beings. Who are you or I or anybody else for that matter to say wether or not Joe Blow kills himself,we might as well be telling him how to dress what to eat and how to live his life. And to me thats not freedom.
And remember the drugs themselves are not evil they simply bring out and magnify the evil already within.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1542283 - 05/12/03 04:14 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mmm...Alright. Where to start on this post...
11 year old boys wouldnt? Just like they arent hanging out in front of my corner store looking for pot and beer, I'm sure. Right? And I dont know where YOUR from, but here in Wisconsin, I'd say 40-50% of the male population back when I was in high school 5 or so years ago used chewing tobacco. Dont try and tell me kids dont do it. Thats just ignorant. And questioning someone's sexuality isnt a very effective debate topic where I come from. If you need a crutch to support your logic, find another one.
I'd bet that nearly everyone who drinks, when they got drunk the first time, probably got sick. I know *I* did. Do you think ALL those people never drank again? C'mon. Your arguments are so full of holes its not even funny....
And how long have you been out of school? I was the ONLY person I hung out with on a regular basis who didnt smoke. Every single teenager in high school smoked cigarettes, and continues to to this day. That is how I can guarantee you that having highly addictive drugs available anywhere to anyone would, big idea here, cause people to become addicted to said drugs! How can you deny this?! Its common sense!
And I'm not saying drugs are inherently evil. I use Methamphetamine, as anyone on this board can tell you, and I dont think the drug is evil. I think the drug can fuck with you. Its all a matter of willpower, common sense, and knowing when to say enough is enough. Americans as a whole completely lack all 3 of those. You see all these morbidly obese folks walking around? No willpower...You see basketball players making 20 million dollars to play a GAME? No common sense....You see political correctness running rampant to where my school has to change its name from Marquette Warriors, to the Marquette Golden Eagles? WTF is a golden eagle!? Nobody knows when to stop.
If you have any REAL reasons that drugs should be legal, besides pot, of which there is NO arguement against, lets hear them. But saying people arent going to become addicted is a fallacy, plain and simple.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Anonymous
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I use Methamphetamine, as anyone on this board can tell you, and I dont think the drug is evil.
how can you justify your use of narcotics, and then say other people don't have that right? thats plain ignorance, if you truly believed that drugs should be illegal, turn yourself into the police right now, and tell them where you buy your meth.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: ]
#1542390 - 05/12/03 05:02 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Now Now...People DO use drugs. Nobody is aruging that? Right? What I'm saying is that if your going to legalize the drugs...MORE people are going to use them. I dont buy mine legally, so what I do has no bearing on this conversation. I'm not telling you, or anyone else, NOT to use drugs. Go out! Get fucked up! I do, on a regular basis. Its FUN. But if we're talking blanket legalization, I'm still going to say its a stupid idea...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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I agree with you for the most part on this one, MT. Pot should be legal immediately. Smack, coke, meth, - never. They're just too fucking addicitive and mind-shrinking. You'd still have junkies everywhere and you'd still have drug-related violent crimes cos people would be jonesing for that next hit. I think the only area we differ is on psychedlics. They're non addictive, mind expanding, and for the most part increase one's social conscience. Sure, it doesn't work like that for some folks - there'd be some bad trips, but i bet those persons would leave the shit alone once they realised they couldn't handle it.
My vision would be to have LSD as a prescription drug - available from a doctor of psychiatrist for 'mental therapy' on a regular, but not overly frequent basis - like once a month (you could horde your dose on those months you dont feel like tripping). You go see Doc, have a chat, and leave with pure LSD. Fucking hell, if i could be guaranteed to get LSD for New Orleans Mardi Gras, Jazzfest, Halloween, and a summer backpacking trip I'd be one happy MF!!
too bad it'll never happen.
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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Anonymous
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I'm not telling you, or anyone else, NOT to use drugs.
yes you are, by saying drugs should be illegal. but, only you are exempt right? your stance also suggests that its ok for users like me and you to be locked up in jail. don't even try to make an argument against it, you've contradicted yourself too much already.
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Learyfan]
#1542490 - 05/12/03 05:25 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was joking guys!
i knew you were trying to mess with us. I wasn't buying it.
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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mycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
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First off if 11 year old KIDS are hanging out at your corner store looking for pot ( or at least YOU think they are ) then they are just as dumb as you. And if they are trying to buy beer and nobody sells it to them whats the prob with that? Unless you personaly sell them the beer in the first place.
And I am from Boston Mass originaly and where I come from almost nobody does "chew" although a few groups did try "dip"for a while. But it may be different in the hick town you lived in.
And I did not question your sexuality as a topic of debate I made a personal observation of how you seem to think the only people on the planet who try to do drugs are 11 yr old boys.
Do you have any idea of how many people do not drink or do chew simply because they got real sick there first time.
By the way its been damn near 13 years since I was in high school and YES things have changed. My nephew is in high school now and he is one of the most popular kids in his school and while he drinks and smokes pot ocasionaly he did not run out and do crack,smack,or meth the first time he had a chance like some idiots around here. He never has and he says he never will why? Because he has more respect for himself and has learned from my,and a few others mistakes.
Perhaps you need to read my last statment again..... "Like I said before if they did legalize drugs then yes alot of people will die there is no denying that. But I dont think that trend would not last very long at all and besides in a "free" country people should be allowed to kill themselves as it is our most basic "freedom" as human beings. Who are you or I or anybody else for that matter to say wether or not Joe Blow kills himself,we might as well be telling him how to dress what to eat and how to live his life. And to me thats not freedom."
I never said people would not become addicted or die, its a natural part of life.....Now you tell me how you know for a fact that those who do die from drugs dont deserve to for abusing them in the first place and when your done with that you can tell me how you know for a fact that tose people would not have died in say a car wreck anyway. People die its sad but true and completely unavoidable.
And if you think you can abuse Meth and STILL have any willpower then you have no common sense.
"You see basketball players making 20 million dollars to play a GAME? No common sense"
Uh what planet are you from if somebody wanted to pay me 20 Mill to toss a ball through a hoop I would do it in a heartbeat. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or again has no common sense.
Its the people who pay those guys and buy the tickets who do not.
Oh and by the way you dont have to PM me with.....
"If you want to debate, we'll fucking debate. But dont put personal flames in there because you cant figure out a decent argument to support your fucked up position, okay?
I respect you, you respect me. You dont respect me, I dont respect you. Why would you want to cause drama and shit? "
Because I DONT respect you respect is earned not given. And until you grow up a little you wont have mine. Not that you need it. As you dont seem to respect yourself anyway.
One last question if they DID legalize ALL drugs how long do you think it would take before you OD on Meth? My guess not too long
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1542959 - 05/12/03 08:13 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Alright. Let me respond to another one of your rants...Number 1: The problem is, Stupid people DO sell the kids beer and tobacco. Where do you think all these little 13 year old punks are getting cigarettes? Happy Meals? Think again...
I DID grow up in a hick town. Its fucking Wisconsin, what the fuck do you expect? Everyone there chews...Its the redneck thing to do. I dunno anything what you guys do over there in Bahstan....
And, by admitting you know nothing about high school, your completely unqualified to talk about the subject...NEXT...
Sure, People have a right to die and whatever, thats fine. But when it affects MY quality of life, its not okay with me. Fuck that. Die if you want too, I dont care. Read one of my previous posts if your gonna argue with me...
And what the fuck? So, anyone who has EVER abused a drug has no willpower? What if they quit? I suppose that doesnt count....Once again, READ my posts if your gonna talk shit...
And sure, I'm not knocking a b-ball player who makes the money. I'm knocking the fucking society that PAYS someone 20M to do it. Thats fucking DUMB. Deal with it.
And dont tell me that I'm gonna OD. Fuck, I have access to all the pure, unadulterated meth that I want. I have for years. I'm not dead yet. I'm much more likely to die from a brain aneurysm after reading one of your posts. Thank you. Come again.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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mycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
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Quote:
I have access to all the pure, unadulterated meth that I want. I have for years. I'm not dead yet. I'm much more likely to die from a brain aneurysm after reading one of your posts. Thank you. Come again.
Funny I always get a good laugh out of yours
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And, by admitting you know nothing about high school, your completely unqualified to talk about the subject...NEXT...
Exactly when did I say that again? Hmmmm...I didnt
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But when it affects MY quality of life, its not okay with me.
May I assume you are talking about this post as your explaination of how it effects your "quality of life"
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If it affects me, I'm damn well going to work towards MY best interests. I have no desire to have 11 year old boys propositioning me for heroin outside 7/11. I dont want to some crazy mad fucking hippie running up to my car at a stop light telling me god told him this, or god told him that. And I Sure as HELL dont want to trip over junkies on my way into Mcdonalds. Ya know?
If so I thought kids were already hanging outside you corner store asking you to buy them beer and pot. And if you ever left your quiet little town you would know that there already bums ,addicts, and general pains in the ass's that will walk right up to your car and not only tell you God said this or God said that but will gladly wash your windows for a buck in every major city.(and its not only because of the drugs but the fact that their government would rather fund wars than feed its people.) And as for stepping over junkies to get into your local Micky D's you need to get out more because that too is known to happen every now and then.
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So, anyone who has EVER abused a drug has no willpower
Read that sentence once or twice....If someone had any willpower whatsoever would they ABUSE a drug? No....and the ones who quit have REGAINED their willpower that they lost.
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And sure, I'm not knocking a b-ball player who makes the money. I'm knocking the fucking society that PAYS someone 20M to do it. Thats fucking DUMB. Deal with it
LMAO read your own post I have dealt with it and your stupidity as well. As you would read in your post it says...
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You see basketball players making 20 million dollars to play a GAME? No common sense.
I see no mention of society there...Now here again is what I said...
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Uh what planet are you from if somebody wanted to pay me 20 Mill to toss a ball through a hoop I would do it in a heartbeat. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or again has no common sense.
Its the people who pay those guys and buy the tickets who do not.
Now my post on the other hand mentions the people who buy the tickets. So how am I wrong there? In your own words....
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READ my posts if your gonna talk shit...
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mycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1543564 - 05/12/03 11:00 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oh and by the way by your logic because of AIDS sex should also be illegal. Well lets see now.....hmmmm...If sex were illegal nobody would die of AIDS I'll give you that but then again it would also mean the possible end of the human race not to mention all that fun. Nope I'd say its more of an exceptable risk as most would agree.
Lets face it the world is a dangerous place and it gets worse as time goes buy. The days of leave it to beaver are long gone and there is not much we can do about it. But refusing to legalize something that has been proven to have both medical and spiritual/Sociological uses simply because its scary,or will kill people,or is an inconvience is futile because as I have said before the world is a scary,deadly,and bothersome place to live in and that not going to change no matter what our stance on the legalization of drugs is. Although we have yet to see what the legalization would bring who knows maybe after the dust settled there would be more peace. All I know is things have been done the same way for a long enough time without ANY good coming out of it.
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Lyte it Up 420
It's 4:19...Gota minute?
Registered: 11/26/02
Posts: 67
Loc: New york
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1543708 - 05/12/03 11:34 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have to completly disagree with everything madtowntripper has said. First off why is he so worried about 11 year old kids begging people to buuy them drugs from cornerstores, rather then 11 year old kids going down the block to a dealer now and getting it as long as they have money, without any trouble whatsoever? The fact is legalization will STOP kids from getting drugs, becasue dealers could not compete with the prices the government regulated, and if there were no dealers then kids would have to go through alot of trouble to get them. Dealers don't care how old you are, as long as you have money you have drugs. Watch the movie Traffic "I don't like alcohol too much, for someone my age its alot easier to get drugs then it is to get alcohol."
There will always be kids who use drugs, but it is also known that having it illigal also causes them to want to use it more, the curiousity, the "forbidden fruit" theory, and just plain peer pressure.
About you saying how much willpower you have and such, denial is the first symptom of addiction, and only 6% of meth addicts every get and stay clean. Meth is one of the most dangerous drugs out there, to your brain and your body not even mentioning the addiction.
I understand where your coming from I really do but the fact is the government doesn't have the right to say what a person can or cannot do unless they are hurting someone else. Just because drugs are legal doesn't mean that there will be junkies all over the streets, most junkies stay inside because they in fact are ashamed of themselves. You think they will robb you for money for thier next fix? No they won't, they do that now because one gram of heroin costs 20+ dollars. If regulated it would be less then a 10th of that price. The other reason is they can't work because of drug tests, if it were legal they could work while using, and make money and afford thier drug of choice, just like all those tobacco addicts out there who live full and normal lives.
I just find it funny that your so against legalization but say so many times that you use. You seem to think you're better then everyone else that they won't be smart enough to decide to use or not and automatically get addicted, while you taking meth for years don't have any sort of problem whatsoever. I just feel sorry for how close minded you are. I do agree that most of american's are close minded and ignorent, but that works for the process of legalization, if most people are so horribly against it and all the lies and propaganda that the government has fed to them what makes you think the second they become legal everyone will become addicted? I personally don't see the reason for using heroin or meth or coke if i had Weed and pychedelics easily available to me(and those drugs have been used to help treat heroin, alcohol and cocain addiction) and i suspect most people would feel the same.
Look at the numbers now, 120,000 people have admitted to have used heroin in the past month, and there are only 4,000-5,000 deaths due to drug od(all drugs combined)94.1 million americans over age 12 have used drugs at least once in thier lifetime(thats 41.7% of the population) do you really think legalization of the drugs will cause more people to use, get addicted, or die? Considering that over 85% of drug related deaths are caused by the fact that they are illigal and not to the drug themselves, not legalizing the drugs just seems stupid to informed people. Seriously, think about it.
Sources:
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, US Department of Health and Human Services, Results from the 2001 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Volume 1. Summary of National Findings (Rockville, MD: Ofice of Applied Studies, August 2002), p. 109, Table H.1 & p. 110, Table H.2.
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, US Department of Health and Human Services, Results from the 2001 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Volume 1. Summary of National Findings (Rockville, MD: Ofice of Applied Studies, August 2002), p. 109, Table H.1; p. 110, Table H.2; p. 129, Table H.21; and p. 130, Table H.22.
U.S. Government Bureau of Mortality Statistics
-------------------- "Are you suicidal?" "Only in the morning." --------------------------------------- "I only lied about being a thief."
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Where do you think all these little 13 year old punks are getting cigarettes?
Could you explain to us why the number of people smoking is decreasing? By your logic if you legalise something you have more and more people using it - doesn't seem to be true.
Letter To The Prime Minister Jonathan Cook, MA (Oxon) North Sydney ref: Jan 00 Heroinsight
Dear Mr Howard,
Until the last election, I had voted Liberal for 30 years. I am hoping to be able to do so again since I generally support your party's economic policies. But until you adopt more progressive social policies, this appears a forlorn hope.
In particular, your approach to the heroin problem is regressive, reactionary and anti-social. In my view, the course you are taking will only lead further down the disastrous road the nation and its drug users have embarked on. If the problem is to be contained. it is essential that you permit and encourage shooting galleries, and also allow heroin to be sold on prescription. Until this happens:
1. The crime wave will continue and accelerate, with people like us being burgled with increasing frequency so that drug users can raise sufficient funds to support their habit.
2. Young people will continue to die from overdoses and drug mixing at a horrifying rate, which is reported to have risen from about 2 per million before prohibition to 80 to 120 per million now.
3. The high profits from drug dealing will accrue mainly to organised crime, allowing them to acquire an ever-increasing share of the nation's capital.
4. The nation's courts will be bogged down with drug-related crime.
5. Many of our young generation (at least those who do not die from overdoses) will be stigmatised by criminal conviction and often permanently alienated from society.
6. The country's jails will continue to overflow, mainly with the young and minorities who are more likely to buy and fix on the streets.
It is way past time that your government recognised that drugs are a social and health problem and not a criminal one. I expect you also are aware that prohibition is bound to fail sooner or later. By legalising heroin and selling controlled amounts and qualities on prescription. you will solve at a stroke many of the problems listed.
Your argument that legalising heroin necessarily sends a bad message to society is rubbish. Cigarette consumption in Australia is declining steadily as the message that it is damaging to health sinks in. A similar but much stronger campaign is needed for heroin to prevent the young from becoming addicted and to help them quit. At present it is the very illegality of both soft and hard drugs that makes them seem socially desirable in some circles.
The only argument that I can see against legalisation is that America is opposed to it and is pressuring other countries and the UN to adopt its position. The US in fact is probably one of the few developed countries that is less enlightened than Australia in its national drugs policy, though many States are seeking to liberalise their laws, particularly in relation to soft drugs.
I sincerely urge you to reconsider your and your government's position before you do even more harm to our society than you and your predecessor governments have already done. At the very least, you should not oppose the States and Territories in their more enlightened approaches.
http://www.fds.org.au/letter_jan00_01.html
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1544144 - 05/13/03 02:01 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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From article Alex posted: "Heroin can be highly addictive - which is a very good reason not to start taking it. In extreme doses, it can kill. But the truth which has been trampled under the cavalry of the drug warriors is that, properly prescribed, pure heroin is a benign drug." I don't see how these two facts (in bold) can pertain to the same drug. The very fact that it's so addictive means it's not benign. However, that said, I think current drug laws are very unfair to doctors and their patients. While I'd personally prefer my doctor not treat heroin or other opiates as "benign", I also think they should be left free to use their judgement and properly manage a patient's pain. Underprescription might be more of a problem than overprescription these days. I know I've suffered from it. The dentist wouldn't give me shit after a root canal. He said ibuprofen would be good enough. It turns out my infection was in the next tooth over, so the pain kept worsening, but would he listen? Ohhhh no. Finally, three days later my girlfriend took me to an overnight emergency clinic (this was in Germany) , and after a visit with the physician on call (my swollen face helped), I had a prescription for something called Valoron. In drop form--15 to 20 drops in a coke and I was A-OK. A calm after a terrible storm. I waved the Valoron in the dentist's face and said "You see this? This is all I needed." I have never experienced pain like that. The drop in ODs when purity is known makes sense. Statistics show that when a batch of higher purity heroin gets out, ODs show up. Users shooting up 80 percent pure heroin as if it were 20 percent pure can die from it. So this is one good argument about decriminalized heroin. But let's remember that heroin is a serious gamble. Like the article said, it can be highly addictive. And even if it is true that physically there is no damage (I'd like to hear more), there's still a life in shambles. I hear claims that a person addicted to heroin can lead a perfectly normal life, and I don't buy it. Don't go and tell your 15-year-old nephew that heroin itself is pretty safe, please. It's like telling a 7-year-old that matches are pretty safe. I'm against the drug law, but I'm definitely not pro-drugs. As I work with youth and have plenty of opportunities to discuss things like this (that's right, I'm a corruptor ), I think a lot about what to say should the subject come up. I would never tell them heroin is a benign drug. For one thing I just don't believe that's accurate. But at the same time I don't give bullshit assertions propogated by DARE. Youth these days, they see right through that. I rarely push my opinion on my students (no, seriously) but in this case I do. I say, "Don't even try it." I say, "If you guys are so curious you have to try stuff, at least don't lie to yourself about what you're dealing with. You're gambling, possibly against the odds, and what's the payoff? You manage to be one of those who can do it and not get burned by it? Not much of a return really, considering what you're wagering. Same thing goes for alcohol. If there's going to be any headway against these lame laws that fill our prisons with innocent people and eat up tons of money, it's going to be because more people who fall into the "anti-drug" camp also realize that the drug laws do more harm than good, and join in the fight to repeal them. I've made some headway with my Mom. But of course, the drug problem in the U.S. and elsewhere goes beyond the nature of the drug itself, and involves a wider picture of excess, or self-medication to relieve deeper pains, or something, I don't know. It's a symptom of something else. hongomon
Edited by hongomon (05/13/03 02:03 AM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
If it affects me, I'm damn well going to work towards MY best interests. I have no desire to have 11 year old boys propositioning me for heroin outside 7/11. I dont want to some crazy mad fucking hippie running up to my car at a stop light telling me god told him this, or god told him that. And I Sure as HELL dont want to trip over junkies on my way into Mcdonalds. Ya know?
ok....so how does this differ from beer...or liquor....major cities everywhere it is happening with alcohol....just kick the bastards and tell the to get a hair cut grandpa...
P#1
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Learyfan]
#1544156 - 05/13/03 02:05 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was joking guys!
I just made a post from the point of view of someone who had their head up thier ass. Did you like my "get an education before you make such statements" comment? That was especially pompous.
it's cool...head in the ass isnt healthy....it should be outlawed....but at least it would get you ready for prison....
P#1
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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I was taught all about drugs in school. Every year...And I still use...Why is that?
Yeah...I was too....pot will make you addicted...3 hits of acid and you become insane....toot a line of coke you become a junkie....pot is a gateway drug... Schiil teaches the government aproved pablum....drug education in public schools is bullshit on a chalkboard.....wouldnt know about private schools....but I'm sure it's worse....
P#1
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Now Now...People DO use drugs. Nobody is aruging that? Right? What I'm saying is that if your going to legalize the drugs...MORE people are going to use them. I dont buy mine legally, so what I do has no bearing on this conversation. I'm not telling you, or anyone else, NOT to use drugs. Go out! Get fucked up! I do, on a regular basis. Its FUN. But if we're talking blanket legalization, I'm still going to say its a stupid idea...
you mentioned facts...prove that there will be a serious increase in drug use....prohibition for alcohol actualy saw a *rise* in alcoholism, why? because it was forbiden....you always want what you cant have...now on the subject of your drug use.....your a joke.....you feel that you should loose ALL of your rights and risk severe legal penalties, financial loss because you wanna get a little buzz...your fucked up....maybe you should check into a rehab because maybe they were right in your case about drugs damaging your brain...
P#1
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
Alright. Let me respond to another one of your rants...Number 1: The problem is, Stupid people DO sell the kids beer and tobacco. Where do you think all these little 13 year old punks are getting cigarettes? Happy Meals? Think again...
Yep...people do...my parents provided it for me if I chose to get drunk...my friends were partying with me...the cool part...we had permission...oddly enough, none of us are alcoholics now....
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I DID grow up in a hick town. Its fucking Wisconsin, what the fuck do you expect?
this explains every thing...my former boss was from wisconsin....yep....tells me where the fucked up morality is sourced from....he likes to screw around with young girls...14 and 15 years old....allways hitting on them....I hook up with someone thats 18 and he calls me a perv....hell, I married the girl...were having a kid...his interest was to make porn flicks of him and jailbait....
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Sure, People have a right to die and whatever, thats fine. But when it affects MY quality of life, its not okay with me.
Please explain to me how any of this wil actualy affect your quality of life, if I get high, will you suffer....if I trip, will you feel it...this is the same demented *bs* that was used to outlaw these drugs to begin with...even if you were part of my family, my tripping on occasion would not affect you in the slightest...unless you were just jealous....
it's like the gun debate...Kennesaw Ga passed a law making it mandatory to own a gun...exclusions do apply....look at the crime statistics...no murders, a 90% drop in breakins, 92% drop in violent crime....but guns cause crime....seems like owning a gun prevents it...just like having access to drugs as a legal substance will show an increase in usage for a very short period....but thats because the statistics are fucked up....half the people dont tell the truth about usage....I know a judge that gets stoned, prominent business ment that toke up, cops that do the same....would they admit to it....no...
P#1
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: hongomon]
#1544718 - 05/13/03 09:47 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good post hongoman.
I suppose the question is whether a drug ever become safer when you hand it's control over to criminals.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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I've been reading some more of your posts on this thread, Madtown, particularly your exchange with Mycophat, and I'm going to have to clarify my earlier statement that I agree with you for the most part. When I said that, I was specifically referring to your initial post voicing your opposition against legalising smack/coke/meth and hard drugs. Indeed, while I do support legalizing pot and all psychedelics, I do NOT support legalizing smack/coke/meth because of their highly addictive properties. That, however, is pretty much where our agreement ends.
Quite frankly, some of the statements you've made in the subsequent posts are completely ridiculous. You've gone on some strange rants about how legalisation would cause YOU to have to deal with 11 year old junkies at corner stores and freaks yapping about God in your face. It really sounds to me like one of your biggest concerns is how legalization is going to inconvenience YOU. I want to make it perfectly clear to everyone that that's not where I'm coming from on this issue. I'm coming from the perspective of a former crack-smoking addict with a habit that I simply could not quit, no matter how hard I tried. I've been there man, I've done it all, and I am so fucking thankful that I finally saw the light through use of psychedelic drugs and that I can now say with confidence that I'll never use habit-forming drugs again. Drug addiction is curse that I'd not even wish on my worst enemy. I know there's many others that disagree with me, but I do believe that legalization of hard, addictive drugs will end up creating addicts out of people who normally would not be that way, and that is why I do not support legalization of such substances. So, while you and I agree that hard drugs shouldn't be legal, our reasoning and our current philosphy regarding personal use of addictive and synthetic drugs could not be more different.
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 2,207
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1544854 - 05/13/03 11:06 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
A whole generation of people after the civil war were addicted terribly to heroin.
No they weren't. I think it was morphine and I think it was ww1 or ww2 but over 90% of the troops went from using it on a regular bases to going back to a completely normal (and drug free) life after the war. Very few kept using it.
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yes you are, by saying drugs should be illegal.
Actully what he's saying makes sense although I disagree. The world has drugs, thats a fact but how the world deals with it makes a big difference. Things would be very different if they were legal, he believe it would be a negative thing although he still thinks they're ok. Kinda like they're ok but not for everyone and not in the way they would be if legal, by keeping them illegal less people would use it and it wouldn't be an open thing.
Also most kids, and some people, who try things and have a negative experiance their first time tend not to try things again and tell their friends not to also. Alot of people are like that in this area. With drinking most people have a possitive experiance their first time so dont let one negaitve stop them perminantly although alot of people still take a break and are then more careful in the future. With dip most people dont like it (especially younger kids) so they dont use it again. Same would probably happen with alot of other drugs. This about tripping, anyone know anyone that has had a bad trip their 1st time? They become totally anti tripping and tell everyone how bad it is...
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mycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1544928 - 05/13/03 11:35 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I want to make it perfectly clear to everyone that that's not where I'm coming from on this issue. I'm coming from the perspective of a former crack-smoking addict with a habit that I simply could not quit, no matter how hard I tried. I've been there man, I've done it all, and I am so fucking thankful that I finally saw the light through use of psychedelic drugs and that I can now say with confidence that I'll never use habit-forming drugs again. Drug addiction is curse that I'd not even wish on my worst enemy. I know there's many others that disagree with me, but I do believe that legalization of hard, addictive drugs will end up creating addicts out of people who normally would not be that way, and that is why I do not support legalization of such substances. So, while you and I agree that hard drugs shouldn't be legal, our reasoning and our current philosphy regarding personal use of addictive and synthetic drugs could not be more different
Jimsuzo} I can understand your concerns as I too am a FORMER crack addict (so bad that at the age of 20 I was not only stealing from strangers but my own mom and dad). Both of us and the rest of the addicted population became addicted while these drugs were illegal correct?
So how can anyone think that by it being illegal it is helping anything (people get addicted to a drug because of a personality flaw not because its legal or in this case not)
I too after some long years, a couple trips to jail, caring friends and family, and a certain mushroom that we all have in common finally was able to kick the habit. I had done LSD and shrooms and Mesc. every now and then before I tried crack and loved them but it was so damn hard to find any by this time (age 17) that I then decided to give crack a try (BIG mistake).
It was'nt untill I met a friend in the boonies and was able to get my hands on some shrooms again that I was able to "see" exactly what the drug had been doing to me and within three months (tripping one or two times a month) I had quit crack and regained my pride,my humanity,and my self respect.
Now how many other crack,smack, and addicts in general COULD be helped if they (meaning drugs)were legalized? I can not say for sure as it has never been done but as I've seen from not only personal experience but from talking with other former addicts who have given up their addiction , that after the use of Shrooms or other hallucinogens I can with some confidence say that in my opinion the numbers would be that well over 75% Would be able to quit if they wanted to ( I have only known one person to date that has used psychedelics during his addiction that was unable to kick the habit and to be honest I simply dont think he was ready in his own mind to quit)
So as I have said before I will say this again.......If they legalize all drugs then yes undoubtedly some people will become addicted and yes many will die,its a fact of life. Who is to say that 90% of those same people would not have become addicted anyway even with them illegal? An addictive personality will be addictive no matter what the law.
And the rise in both addiction and death would eventualy start to lower and possibly stop someday because other less crippling drugs would be there to aid in the process of getting "clean". Or to do in the first place.
Alot of people that have never used crack or smack might (and I stress the point might) not ever get started using "hard" drugs if they were ALL legal. And those who did and wanted to quit would have legal access to the drugs and support they need to quit. And I say wanted because untill you WANT to quit you never will. No matter what support you get.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: DailyPot]
#1544976 - 05/13/03 11:57 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
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A whole generation of people after the civil war were addicted terribly to heroin.
No they weren't. I think it was morphine and I think it was ww1 or ww2 but over 90% of the troops went from using it on a regular bases to going back to a completely normal (and drug free) life after the war. Very few kept using it.
You're right about it being morphine rather than heroin, but Alex was right about it being the Civil War. After the war, morphine addiction became known as "the Soldier's disease." They didn't just magically stop being addicted after the war was over.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Incidentally, what gives anyone the right to decide what others can and can't do as long as they harm no-one else? Mountaineering is dangerous - should we make that illegal because people harm themselves? As Bill Hicks said - "It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom".
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
Edited by Alex123 (05/13/03 12:07 PM)
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: silversoul7]
#1544990 - 05/13/03 12:03 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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You're right about it being morphine rather than heroin
To be honest I thought it was opium.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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mycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1545014 - 05/13/03 12:09 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dialypot} I will try to answer your post in order...
I believe it may have been lodnum that everybody was talking about after the civil war. Lodnum was a opium/alcohol based tincture that almost everybody used at one point or another back then. Hell mothers used to put there babies to sleep with it.
And I'm not sure of where you stand on this...
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by keeping them illegal less people would use it and it wouldn't be an open thing.
And yes keeping them illegal keeps them from being so much of an open thing but it also is not correctly educating the public. This is not a fantasy world where as long as you keep your eyes closed "the boogy man "wont get you. The world needs to open its eyes and realize that there are a hell of a lot worse things out there then hippies and drugs.
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This about tripping, anyone know anyone that has had a bad trip their 1st time
Not right off the top of my head. But the state of mind of the person tripping is a major factor in the type of trip they have. If most of the world was not making such a big deal out of bad trips there would be less of a problem. People who trip the first time are more likely to have a bad trip if they have been scared by someone who has never done the drug and yet tells them..."I hope you dont have a bad trip... Ive heard you will see monsters and shit and never come out of it"
And before you say that people dont say things like that they do.
I myself on the other hand have never had a "bad" trip as I used to spike temps of well over 108 as a small child and would pluck the butterflies out of the air or flick boogies at the monster at the foot of my bed (tripping my ass of). So I have no fear towards the drug and the halucination that awaits.
So by making drugs illegal and creating a population of uninformed or uneducated people we create a bigger problem then if we just gave into the fact that there are drugs out there and since there is nothing anyone can do to stop that fact we might as well educate our people so at the very least they are not hurting themselves by lack thereof.
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
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Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1545284 - 05/13/03 01:35 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
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Posts: 2,207
Loc: Florida
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: silversoul7]
#1545455 - 05/13/03 02:31 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dont think its good to be addicted and because of that this is a poor argument but its better to be hooked on legal drugs than illegal. Atleast its safer since you know what your getting and how much there is alot less health risk and if its legal it would be a fuck lot easier to be addicted and live a normal life since its acceptable and cheaper, and if you still have a normal life its a fuck lot easier to quit.
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You're right about it being morphine rather than heroin, but Alex was right about it being the Civil War. After the war, morphine addiction became known as "the Soldier's disease." They didn't just magically stop being addicted after the war was over.
Wow, quoting your post w/ my quoted quote was complicated I'll go try and find where I read it but I believe on Erowid it said that lots of solders were using it but after the war many quit using it without much trouble at all.
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And I'm not sure of where you stand on this...
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by keeping them illegal less people would use it and it wouldn't be an open thing.
And yes keeping them illegal keeps them from being so much of an open thing but it also is not correctly educating the public. This is not a fantasy world where as long as you keep your eyes closed "the boogy man "wont get you. The world needs to open its eyes and realize that there are a hell of a lot worse things out there then hippies and drugs.
I know, but look at the begining of where you quoted me. I said I dont agree w/ someones possition on legalization but I understood it and was clearifing it for someone that said they didn't understand. I dont think they should be illegal and hiden either.
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Not right off the top of my head. But the state of mind of the person tripping is a major factor in the type of trip they have. If most of the world was not making such a big deal out of bad trips there would be less of a problem. People who trip the first time are more likely to have a bad trip if they have been scared by someone who has never done the drug and yet tells them..."I hope you dont have a bad trip... Ive heard you will see monsters and shit and never come out of it"
And before you say that people dont say things like that they do.
I myself on the other hand have never had a "bad" trip as I used to spike temps of well over 108 as a small child and would pluck the butterflies out of the air or flick boogies at the monster at the foot of my bed (tripping my ass of). So I have no fear towards the drug and the halucination that awaits.
So by making drugs illegal and creating a population of uninformed or uneducated people we create a bigger problem then if we just gave into the fact that there are drugs out there and since there is nothing anyone can do to stop that fact we might as well educate our people so at the very least they are not hurting themselves by lack thereof.
Hehe, I completely agree w/ the last part. As for the rest I'm not saying trips should be illegal or saying what causes them, I was simply using that as an example to show that alot of times if you dont enjoy something your 1st time you wont do it again.
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
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Posts: 2,207
Loc: Florida
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Evolving]
#1545784 - 05/13/03 04:19 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Great quote
Also I found out it was Vietnam I was talking about.
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1546103 - 05/13/03 06:02 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mycophat,
It sounds like you and I have followed similar paths. Glad we made it to the same place.
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It wasn't untill I met a friend in the boonies and was able to get my hands on some shrooms again that I was able to "see" exactly what the drug had been doing to me and within three months I had quit crack and regained my pride,my humanity,an my self respect.
I hear exactly what your saying. That's why I definitely agree that LSD and shrooms should be legal. Let there be no doubt on this part of the issue. They're actually beneficial drugs (and they're fun as shit!) The rest of the issue is clearly real tricky - opinions are deeply rooted and difficult to sway. Suffice it to say that if we can meet halfway it's better thanm not meeting at all, eh?
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If they legalize all drugs then yes undoubtedly some people will become addicted and yes many will die, its a fact of life
I guess maybe one of my concerns is that one of these 'some people' ends up being my daughter or someon else I love. Believe me, my daughter will be, and in fact already is being taught which drugs are harmful and which are not (for the record pot is a plant, not a harmful drug in my house, shrooms are fungii, and it's perfectly natural (albeit illegal) to indulge in these gifts). Sometimes, however, it is still possible for well-educated people to be lead astray (i'd like to think I'm a good example). People may come up with the foolish notion, "well it can't be THAT bad, otherwise it wouldn't be legal..." and so on. My stance - and I've said this several times (sorry) - is that we legalize all natural, non-concentrated drugs (i.e. weed/shrooms) and yes, some synthetic drugs (LSD) that have proven not to be debilitating or addictive. We all know which drugs these are. The 'line in the sand' is clear that way. 'Harmful' drugs that should be avoided and can cause irreperable damage in the average Joe Q. Citizen remain illegal. Yes, we'll still have addicts with it as I envision, no question about it. BUT, I do believe we'd have more addicts - regardless of drug education - with legalization of smack/coke. IMO, Just one more addict could be too many if that person turns out to be someone you love.
peace -
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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DailyPot
Trip'n Time
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1546455 - 05/13/03 08:23 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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And there is little reason to expect anything different from the Clinton administration's January 1997 announcement that it will spend $1 million to review all the evidence on the medical benefits of marijuana. The problem is that no Congress or president has ever had the guts to follow through on the recommendations of independent commissions assigned to balance the risks and harms of marijuana with the risks and harms of marijuana policies. It's still impossible, for instance, for any government official to speak out publicly about the difference between responsible and irresponsible use of marijuana, as they would with alcohol. All marijuana use is defined as drug abuse--notwithstanding extensive evidence that most marijuana users suffer little if any harm. That position may be intellectually and scientifically indefensible, but those in government regard it as politically and legally obligatory.
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mycophat
member
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: DailyPot]
#1546658 - 05/13/03 09:34 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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DailyPot}Oops...I obviously was not paying too much attention when I read your post and I apoligize.
jimsuzo} I was just glad to see I was not the only one to go through the trials and tribulations of "crack life" LOL...
As for your concern I can agree with you whole heartedly I have no children of my own as of yet but I do worry not just about my nephew but the next generation and future of mankind itself.
I believe that if you love somebody (your child,nephew,friend,spouse,and mankind in general) unconditionaly to the point that the person can TRUELY come to you with any problem about anything at any time without fear of judgment then they always will once they are ready to accept said problem.
And if you at the same time educate and explain the REAL risks of a situation and yet allow them to make the decision themselves they will for the most part do the right thing.
Take sex for example say I had son or daughter of my own. If I was so closed minded that I felt sex was a dirty,unsafe,or unchristian like thing like a lot of parents out there other than the basic "birds and bees" speech I would seldom discuss sex with my child and almost never explain the risks and benefits or not go into enough detail because I felt awkward speeking to my child about these things. So as a result my poor son or daughter either gets someone pregnant or gets pregnant herself. Or worse yet gets aids.
Now lets say on the other hand I had proven my unconditional love for my child by not flying off the handle the first time I saw my daughter kissing a boy or caught my son alone with a girl in his room. Because we had ALREADY had the sex talk (birds and bees but nothing too in depth) by the time they were 8 or 9. So now instead of being taken by suprise we know its a natural coarse of events. And more than likely when my son or daughter IS ready to actualy have sex they will come to me and we will discuss it (as I did with my parents...What can I say its a great thing to be the son of hippies). Hell my mom was buying me condoms at 13...although I must admit at the time I was still using them for water ballons and chasing girls around the street with them but only cause I was'nt having sex.
I have never touch smack or stuck a needle in my arm because I know of the hell my mother went through to get clean before I was born. I know this because even as a small child (maybe 9 or 10) my mother started talking to me about drugs and telling me what the facts were.Yes she smoked pot around me ( most of the time outside at BBQ's and such) but did that hurt me in any way no. And the only reason I even tried crack was I did know at the time that it was nothing more than freebased cocaine. Had I known that was what crack was the first time I tried it I might not because my mum had already explained freebase to me before.
So basicly to sum it all up I believe if we love unconditionaly and educate our children then nine out of ten they will make the right decision. And when they dont all we can do is be there for them without judgment to guide them through untill they can stand on their own once again.
I know its hard and I know its scary and sometimes painfull to watch your child or loved one fall down but its something that has to be done to make them strong enough to not only be the kind of human we want them to be but to do the same with the next generation. Not to sound too funny but... I have been touched by alot of people in the relatively short time I have been alive (although it feels like forever but thats another story) and I have also touched others and made an impact on their lives forever (addmitidly good and bad) and I am sure that some of them will do the same.So who knows maybe one man or woman CAN make a difference if everyone else is willing to as well. Or for lack of better analogy its kinda like things here at shroomery or a free spore ring you teach me and or send me a print and in turn your teachings get passed on to the guy I give advice and a print to as well.And in turn he does the same and so on and so forth......How many people know the benifits of the PF TEK?. We simply passed on the good teachings and methods of someone who cared enough to teach us a better way of living and growing.
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tak_old
Endo Smoke
Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 609
Loc: State of confusion
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1549749 - 05/14/03 11:50 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Information should be legal. Thinking for yourself should be legal. Making choices that effect no one but yourself should be legal. Making nature illegal should NOT be legal.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1553338 - 05/16/03 02:40 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I do NOT support legalizing smack/coke/meth because of their highly addictive properties. That, however, is pretty much where our agreement ends.
I pretty much agree...I've seen too many friends succumb to the monkey, even know a couple of cops that did...one was prettey cool until...
Quote:
that that's not where I'm coming from on this issue. I'm coming from the perspective of a former crack-smoking addict with a habit that I simply could not quit, no matter how hard I tried. I've been there man,
I have lost somewhere in the area of $50k because of people hooked on speed, crack, smack or what have you...hell, my brother brings them over...night before last one of them stole my keys, had to tow my truck to the shop and have new keys cut and the sensor reprogrammed....paid off....he tried to steal it last night, alarm went off....thats just the financial losses but I cant say it should be illegal, maybe delayed a little bit....see how things work out with the non addictive stuff...them make a nice place for all the addictive users to hang out...like Idaho or New Jersey....if they want to destroy their lives let them do it together, but leave the rest of us out....
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: silversoul7]
#1553343 - 05/16/03 02:44 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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After the war, morphine addiction became known as "the Soldier's disease." They didn't just magically stop being addicted after the war was over.
morphine was the only effective painkiller at the time....now imagine you are on a battle field and you are wounded....surgery constisted of removing you limb with a spoon...or at least damn dull saw....what would you be after that enlistment.... P#1
Edited by Prisoner#1 (05/16/03 03:39 AM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: DailyPot]
#1553348 - 05/16/03 02:47 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is not a fantasy world where as long as you keep your eyes closed "the boogy man" wont get you
Shit....looks like I better rethink my 5 year plan....
P#1
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Fliquid
Back from being gone.
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1553360 - 05/16/03 02:58 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks that was very interesting!
-------------------- My latest music!
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1553443 - 05/16/03 05:07 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I hear you loud and clear. It still doesn't change my stance on legalisation, but in the unlikely event our personal favorites (LSD/shrooms) are legalised - we're jammin, man. Everyone's jammin and life will be so good (not that it's too bad at the moment).
if the addictive,mind-shrinking shit ever gets legalised - hey, be assured my daughter will know for a fact that it's still bad shit and to be avoided.
You sound like a cool dude that has his shit together - I wish you nothing but the best.
JB
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1553444 - 05/16/03 05:13 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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see how things work out with the non addictive stuff...then make a nice place for all the addictive users to hang out...like Idaho or New Jersey....if they want to destroy their lives let them do it together, but leave the rest of us out....
hell yeah - I agree 100%. But go ahead and make Texas the junkie haven - that way you'll never run out of room (hope yer not from Texas). Idaho, on the other hand has some nice wilderness areas. Fuck - I had a dream about backpacking in Idaho the other night. weird.....
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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mycophat
member
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1553458 - 05/16/03 06:05 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah I lived in Idaho for like two years and must say it was one of the most beautifull places I have ever been. Besides Texas seems to grow too many political assholes like Bush and such now THOSE guys need to have a good trip and smoke a spliff and if that dont work then givem a good 5gram smack shot and send the phuckers to hell.LOL
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1553677 - 05/16/03 09:34 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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if the addictive,mind-shrinking shit
Not sure if there is such a thing really jim. As Bill Hicks said - "Not all drugs are great...some of em are great".
Opium, coca leaf, heroin, cocaine, can all be profoundly enriching experiences when used correctly. Some people will have problems but some people have had terrifying experiences with mushrooms - should we make those illegal to "protect" people? And if we ban the "dangerous" drugs should we ban mountaineering or any other risky activity?
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Azmodeus
Seeker
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1554050 - 05/16/03 12:43 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
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I was taught all about drugs in school. Every year...And I still use...Why is that?
Yeah...I was too....pot will make you addicted...3 hits of acid and you become insane....toot a line of coke you become a junkie....pot is a gateway drug... Schiil teaches the government aproved pablum....drug education in public schools is bullshit on a chalkboard.....wouldnt know about private schools....but I'm sure it's worse....
P#1
Exactly P1! We dont get drug education, but rather drug mis-education, designed with lies and deception with very little FACT. How someone can believe thay were properly educated is a mystery to me....but only more so than someone who would put synthetics into thier body.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Azmodeus
Seeker
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1554080 - 05/16/03 12:53 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've noticed a few people say how mushroom, and other psycadelics helped them quit said addictions.
I would like to point out however, that i have used mushrooms, and never tried coke/meth or any synthetic drug (mdma, once...), and never will. It is not an issue that i dont know thier effects......they are not produced by nature, and so would not be used by me for any effect.
I wonder how many other people who would try mushrooms, would avoid synthetic drugs, or cure addictions?
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Azmodeus
Seeker
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1554091 - 05/16/03 12:56 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
So by making drugs illegal and creating a population of uninformed or uneducated people we create a bigger problem then if we just gave into the fact that there are drugs out there and since there is nothing anyone can do to stop that fact we might as well educate our people so at the very least they are not hurting themselves by lack thereof.
Well said!
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1554375 - 05/16/03 02:50 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
And if we ban the "dangerous" drugs should we ban mountaineering or any other risky activity?
Mompo would be so proud of you.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
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Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1554471 - 05/16/03 03:38 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Opium, coca leaf, heroin, cocaine, can all be profoundly enriching experiences when used correctly.
wow - this is one of our rare disagreements, Alex. Maybe i just don't know how to use the shit correctly. When I was using cocaine, all it took was a couple of lines or only ONE hit off a pipe and my mind was completely focused on the next one I was going to get. There was nothing around me, all people, including myself, were assholes, and i just wished everyone would shut the fuck up so i could do another line/hit. I know for a fact that many of my so-called friends felt exactly the same way. It's kinda like, The world? - Fuck the world. Saving the environment? - FUCK that too. Any form of activism? sorry, I've got more blow/smack/crack to do or I've got other unwholesome activity to pursue. THAT's what I mean by mind-shrinking.
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Some people will have problems but some people have had terrifying experiences with mushrooms - should we make those illegal to "protect" people?
Nope, no need to ban shrooms. The thing about having a terrifying experience on shrooms or acid is that you generally don't want to go back to it immediately. Therefore, you don't get all strung out. Coke/smack ain't that way. It's all about the geek and the jones for whats coming next.
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And if we ban the "dangerous" drugs should we ban mountaineering or any other risky activity?
oh come, on that's such a tired ass counterpoint. You sound like LDS. No, we don't ban mountaineering (or crossing the street) cos it doesn't turn your average person into a strung out junkie, it doesn't make people that can't afford more to go out and rob/kill/steal, it doesn't cause people to sit and fucking waste away in a pitifully addicitive state.
just legalize weed and psychedlics. The libertarian 'legalize it all' stance is just too much.W hy be greedy for drugs that are clealry no good.
-------------------- There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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Xlea321
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1554521 - 05/16/03 03:58 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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THAT's what I mean by mind-shrinking.
You've got a point - certainly if you become strung out in the current legal climate it can affect your life negatively. I'm not suggesting everyone should start using these drugs to the point of addiction. But on the other hand, I can think of an awful lot of musicians and artists who have produced incredible work while heavily using smack and coke. Coleridge, Keith Richards, Kurt Cobain, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Jimmy Page, Basquiat. The list is pretty long. What does it tell you when heroin and cocaine users have produced more great work than the psychedelic community? What would you rather listen to - Physical Graffitti or "Hole in my shoe"?
Therefore, you don't get all strung out. Coke/smack ain't that way
Agreed - there isn't the danger of becoming strung out from psychedelics. But I think you could be over-estimating the addiction possibilities of heroin and coke. Getting addicted to anything usually takes some pretty serious effort - in the case of heroin, taking it every day for weeks, if not months, on end. Only a small minority of users are that determind. Take it once a month, once every couple of months just like you use psychedelics and addiction isn't an issue.
No, we don't ban mountaineering (or crossing the street) cos it doesn't turn your average person into a strung out junkie
It can kill and leave people crippled in wheelchairs for the rest of their lives tho.
it doesn't make people that can't afford more to go out and rob/kill/steal
Ah, but heroin being 1000% more expensive than it should be is simply down to the black market. Legalise it and it wouldn't cost anything like that. No-one would have to steal anything.
doesn't cause people to sit and fucking waste away in a pitifully addicitive state
Don't know if you read the article i posted on making heroin legal but it pointed out that many people can lead healthy, active lives being heroin addicts. Many of the soldiers addicted during the war were able to work and be productive - as long as they had a steady and pure supply and wern't having to spend 10 hours a day stealing to pay for their next illegal fix.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Azmodeus
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1554587 - 05/16/03 04:29 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
just legalize weed and psychedlics. The libertarian 'legalize it all' stance is just too much.W hy be greedy for drugs that are clealry no good.
I disagree. All drugs should be legall, and that is not being "greedy" for undesirable drugs. Remember the reason these synthetics are so popular nowadays is because the natural stuff like pot, is in the same catagory/price range/and availability of all those other drugs that are "no good".
Like i said before. I haven't tried coke/meth/heroine or hardly any synthetics (lsd used to use, mdma tried once) and even if they were legal i wouldn't use them. You have to give people the faith and descision to help themselves and to lead thier own lives, its just not everyone who would take drugs is able to do this. But what if all the people using synthetics now tried mushrooms...even one experience could help better thier lives, and wouldn't an idividual have much more resolve/ confidence after dealing with an addiction?....i dont know, i just feel that by banning some substance, it would make little differance, and that to really keep people away we need to educate and encourage the use of entheogens.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1554629 - 05/16/03 04:44 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
You sound like LDS.
Yo there slap happy. You've never seen me call for banning anything other than smoking cigs in public places. That was a truly ridiculous and foolish statement from you. Quote:
W hy be greedy for drugs that are clealry no good.
Because what's right for you, might be fine for others. And that's from someone who was so into freebasing I never thought I'd see 35. All drugs should be legal. Period. In this instance, I have to agree with Alpo. Ouch..... did I say that?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/16/03 04:46 PM)
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Azmodeus
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Why do you think so luvs? is it similar to my reasoning?
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Azmodeus]
#1554640 - 05/16/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yours, Alpo's, and everyone else who argued for full legalisation.
I've always said here that people should be free to do ANYTHING they please as long as it harms no-one else.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Anonymous
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I find it interesting that this would even be debated here. From my own personal experience I have tried crack cocaine and morphine. And in neither case did I get "hooked". I love opiates which I have used off and on for 30+ years but I never felt I had to have them.
And I think Alex did a brilliant job in this thread.
Seriously.
Evolving's quoted rocked!
Cheers,
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Azmodeus
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Would you use synthetics if it were legal? Have you ever? What made ya quit if you did? ...and if you didn't use synthetics,,,would you consider it if it were legal? (assuming all entheogens were also legal)
Just curious, you dont have to answer if ya dont want...
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Azmodeus]
#1554665 - 05/16/03 05:02 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've never used injectables, nor E or MDMA. Probably a few others.
There are few I haven't enjoyed.
Why did I quit freebasing? Liked it too much. I went through about 30 grand so quick it brings tears to my eyes. Wasn't working or eating. Lost 50 pounds. Was months behind in my payments. Almost lost my house and car. Startied being so paranoid I'd be looking out the window checking for cops between each hit. Friends stopped visiting. Life sucked. Finally during one 3 day binge I thought I was having a heart attack. Pulse was 154. Couldn't stop while I still had some though. Finished it off and never touched it again. It was the hardest thing I ever did. I'd share my last joint with someone I just met, yet I'd kill for the last hit of coke.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Azmodeus
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Do you feel as if you had more information on entheogens and thier spiritual uses you would have jumped into freebase?
Doesn't that will power required to stop give you more confidence? mabye gives you purpose? or was the whole experience a terrible mistake?
What im getting at here is how would have legalisation effected your life and descisions regarding drug use? Because having tried both and entheogens always seem sacred, and the other cheap, shallow, and unfufilling...i dont see how if both were widely available, why a person would use synthetics...(if properly educated)
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Azmodeus]
#1554694 - 05/16/03 05:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you feel as if you had more information on entheogens and thier spiritual uses you would have jumped into freebase?
No. I tried shrooms and cid long before coke. And I did lines for years before freebasing with no problems.
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Doesn't that will power required to stop give you more confidence? mabye gives you purpose? or was the whole experience a terrible mistake?
Yes. No. No. But I wouldn't want to repeat it.
Quote:
What im getting at here is how would have legalisation effected your life and descisions regarding drug use?
I don't think it would have changed anything except saved me a shitload of money.
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Because having tried both and entheogens always seem sacred, and the other cheap, shallow, and unfufilling...i dont see how if both were widely available, why a person would use synthetics...(if properly educated)
While I realise many feel etheogens are sacred, to me they are just another drug. I've learned things about myself using them but sacred???? No.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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mycophat
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Put a cookie jar with a note DONT TOUCH!!! taped to it on the fridge ,and the kids will climb up and eat the cookies. Put the cookie jar on the counter with a big "eat me" sign on it But fill it with shit.....Do you still think the kids would eat?
No because any kid who has either been taught what shit was or has eaten it before will know better. Catch my drift.... Power of education will work wonders if we just tell them the truth. And I dont mean that shit they call "Truth" on TV.
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mycophat
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1555136 - 05/16/03 10:01 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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What we need to do is have more drug dealers contribute to Election campaigns. If you think about it back in the George Washington days the biggest campaign contributers were the tobacco companies.
So what happened then we saw pictures of famous people smoking, people smoking in movies,smoking in cartoons,and to be part of the elite section of americana you practly had to smoke.
Now some 100 someodd years later tobacco companies are not paying to support political campaigns as much because of law suits. And no more pictures of smoking,no more glorifying smoking in movies any more, no more smoking in cartoons, and a game has to have an adult rating just to have smoking in it.
The reason behind this is probably because the pharmaceutical companies now pay more money to campaigns. Now instead of tobacco ads on tv all the time its celibrex,or nexium, hell even prozac and paxil. And instead of someone smoking a cig on tv or in the movies they take a valium,or suck on their inhaler and such.
Hell you got 7 and 8 year old kids on Prozac and paxil trying to kill themselves.
All because someone is giving money so some smuck like Ashcroft or Bush can be elected and steal yet more of our freedoms.
So I say what the fuck the big time drug dealers need to contribute to campaign election funds cause maybe then someday kids wont have to take drugs that are to advanced for them to understand if there parents and docters light the fuck up and chill the fuck out and let them live a little. Not to mention all the cool ads we could get to see. But oh well like I said before this is not a fantasy world and will never happen.....But it should.
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GabbaDj
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1555517 - 05/17/03 12:54 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
So I say what the fuck the big time drug dealers need to contribute to campaign election funds
Ellen Degenerate (sp), ya know that lesbian chick said something like this in a comedy skit.... Its true though. The illigal drug business is making billions for drug kingpins and they could still make billions if it were legel...
If the drug underworld were to get organized and focus on one track, plan for a future of legalized drugs and follow through, then we would see all drugs available to responsible people.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: mycophat]
#1555769 - 05/17/03 06:03 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
What we need to do is have more drug dealers contribute to Election campaigns.
Sorry but Clinton got a lot of money from drug kingpins. Didn't seem to help.
A Link Another Link
Now let me make clear that I have no problem with drug dealers and I think ALL drugs should be legal. But as a response to your post.... drug money didn't help us any, did it?
Of course that could just be because Bubba was a hypocritical fuckhead.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1556055 - 05/17/03 11:12 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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hell yeah - I agree 100%. But go ahead and make Texas the junkie haven - that way you'll never run out of room (hope yer not from Texas). Idaho, on the other hand has some nice wilderness areas. Fuck - I had a dream about backpacking in Idaho the other night. weird.....
I dont think we would have to worry about running out of room...the life expectancy isn't that high....plus with the bears....and...um....sorry to hear about Idaho nightmares....they scare the hell out of me too...(oh god...can it be any less interesting)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Azmodeus]
#1556063 - 05/17/03 11:18 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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How someone can believe thay were properly educated is a mystery to me
sadly...it doesnt stop with drug education....in 7th grade I learned that the Korean war ended in the '50s, America Won!!!....I went home and learned the truth...it never ended...in 10 grade, My history teacher was impressed that I was the only student to answer that question correctly....DMZ....why would that be there if it was over...gotta love a mother that says question everthing you hear or read...even if it comes from me...
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: jimsuzo]
#1556068 - 05/17/03 11:22 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
When I was using cocaine, all it took was a couple of lines or only ONE hit off a pipe and my mind was completely focused on the next one.....Quote:
That is very well stated....and very true...I never let it become a problem though....antime I felt it was fine to do another....I felt that it wasnt....
P#1
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mycophat
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1556084 - 05/17/03 11:33 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sorry but Clinton got a lot of money from drug kingpins. Didn't seem to help.
I was talking about almost all political campaigns not just one persons attempt at an election. Think about it first the power was Hemp they were the first to monopolize the campaign bandwagon,then tobacco,Now pharmaceutical companies and technoligy. Both Hemp and Tobacco were both valued at nearly the price of gold at one point or another,and now you have instances where a single pill can cost up to $100 or more now look at the going rate for gold and weigh up that lillte pill and see what you get. You will more than likely find that since the pill weighs less than a half a gram that at $100 a half a gram it is actualy worth more than gold itself. Go figure
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Prisoner#1
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1556095 - 05/17/03 11:39 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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"No, we don't ban mountaineering (or crossing the street) cos it doesn't turn your average person into a strung out junkie"
'It can kill and leave people crippled in wheelchairs for the rest of their lives tho. '
I like to go caving....not spelunking...thats a sport for sissies....Caving involves rockclimbing on muddy slick rocks, some having falls below more than 100 feet onto more muddy jagged rocks....equipment required....Hardhat, Flashlight (3, one small one because you are gonna drop at least one) a good pair of hands and feet. Sharp witts and maybe a couple of hits (thats for after, some reason I never feel the effects of anything in the cave)....it's pitch black, you cant see your hand in front of your face and a cigarette can illuminate a small group of people....it's an adreanalin rush like nothing you have ever had, if your claustrophobic...its even better....especialy when you consider that most of the safety gear is useless weight...**IT IS ADDICTIVE**....it's also quite dangerous.....but the first to try and ban it is gonna get a bullet in the back of his head.....
really, you cant compare the 2...sure you can make a sport out of using drugs, and it may start as a team sport but it becomes way to competitive soon after it begins....but it's like comparing Apples to Orangutans.....ones a fruit the other is a monkey...how do they relate?
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
Yo there slap happy. You've never seen me call for banning anything other than smoking cigs in public places.
So your the bastard trying to trample my rights.....bullet for you....I'll mail it to ya...you know what to do with it....no not a supository....j/k
now....push for a smoking ban, as I had said in a previous post and why would any one stand up for your rights....you helped them to be robbed of one of theirs, and I'm sure you dont believe the doctors about how harmful these things are....look what they said about LSD, Psilocybin and Marijuana....
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
Quote:
What we need to do is have more drug dealers contribute to Election campaigns.
Sorry but Clinton got a lot of money from drug kingpins. Didn't seem to help.
A Link Another Link
Now let me make clear that I have no problem with drug dealers and I think ALL drugs should be legal. But as a response to your post.... drug money didn't help us any, did it?
Hey it did help...Clinton managed to get the Chinese to ship a bunch of machine guns to america....the very same that were used in the infamous article LA Bank Robbery the cops ran around to retrieve better guns at local gun shops.....*but they had machine guns too....alot of good 9mm does against kevlar*....but then after reading the article you may see another reason for the event.....
clinton and guns
Quote:
Of course that could just be because Bubba was a hypocritical fuckhead.
they all are....when choosing between the lessor of two evils you should remember that they are both still evil....you can look deeply and find ties from reagan, bush, clinton, bush the sequal, contras, norieaga, Khomeini, Quadafi, Hussein, drug king pins....everyone with big money is nailing the US citizen in the keister.....so....back to the subject at hand....revolution.....oh...LSD
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DailyPot
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Xlea321]
#1556191 - 05/17/03 12:54 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Opium, coca leaf, heroin, cocaine, can all be profoundly enriching experiences when used correctly. Some people will have problems but some people have had terrifying experiences with mushrooms - should we make those illegal to "protect" people? And if we ban the "dangerous" drugs should we ban mountaineering or any other risky activity?
I think opium and coca leafs should be legal but heroin is too pure and strong, same with crack. I dunno, I guess the best thing to do would make them legal but still. I think selling them might not be good. Just how I feel weed is fine but I wouldn't want pure THC out.
I just rethought it and think they should be legal cuz it'd probably be better that way than illegal.
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1556317 - 05/17/03 02:20 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
now....push for a smoking ban, as I had said in a previous post
So your right to smoke should trumps mine not to? Bullshit. I don't know you but most smokers have brought their current misfortunes on themselves. Chucking butts out car windows, dumping ashtrays in parking lots, parks and on the roadsides, lighting up without seeing if others around care or have health problems. Smokers are their own worst enemies. People want to smoke? That's fine, but have some respect for those who don't and maybe you wouldn't have people after your heads. And I didn't say ban smokes, just don't allow it in public places. EDIT: And there should be a dollar per butt deposit. Chuck out a butt, lose a buck. Better yet, make it five bucks per butt.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/17/03 02:22 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
Quote:
now....push for a smoking ban, as I had said in a previous post
So your right to smoke should trumps mine not to?
how does it do that....it does not put a cigarett into you mouth, you do not have to stand right next to a smoker....on the same token I do not have to be within earshot of whiners that sit in the smoking section of a resturant and bitch about the smoke...in an instance like the Ca. ban on out door smoking....I would bust a couple heads about that one...I am outside, I will smoke!
Quote:
I don't know you but most smokers have brought their current misfortunes on themselves.
reformed smokers...they gripe and complain the most...but please explain how we have brought on this 'mis-fortune'...for me it's not, I will continue to do it in designated area...when resturants dont allow smokers...smokers don eat there...I have stopped frequenting many of them...in building where it's prohibited, I dont light...in out door spaces and bars...I will...it's permitted, no one can tell me I cant light one out doors...I can be asked to move a few feet if I'm in a crowd or even to put it out...as can the majority of smokers....militant non-smokers have instilled a great deal of attitude in many others....
Quote:
Chucking butts out car windows, dumping ashtrays in parking lots, parks and on the roadsides, lighting up without seeing if others around care or have health problems. Smokers are their own worst enemies.
I suppose this would be different than deisel fumes spewing from stacks on trucks, much more harmful....same as the gum wrappers and McDonalds bags I see from non smokers....or even the beer cans from both sides....personaly, I dispose of my butts properly, I strip it and pocket it....I dont like to leave a trail to be followed....
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People want to smoke? That's fine, but have some respect for those who don't and maybe you wouldn't have people after your heads.
quit bitching and whining about smokers and allergies and ask them politely to put it out...I comply when it's not preceeded by alot of whining I wasnt supposed to hear....
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And I didn't say ban smokes, just don't allow it in public places. EDIT: And there should be a dollar per butt deposit. Chuck out a butt, lose a buck. Better yet, make it five bucks per butt.
please define a public place....I usualy see it as a place where people can go that is not their home, this would include, *my* business, resturants, anywhere outdoors...is a particular place has a rule against it, then I comply or do not patronize the place...but I have seen smoking rules selectivly enforced, dealt with a lady that tried to enforce the selective rule...claimed she could be fined $500 for allowing a minor to smoke in her resturant....I said 'call the cops', one day she did...the cops laughed her off of the phone....had everyone not been in the smoking section of the coffe shop then I would have been really easy to deal with on the subject....she allowed smoking in the non-smoking section if you tip well...
P#1
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mycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1556642 - 05/17/03 06:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you had taken the time to read my posts you would have read that it was not too long ago that the government was PROMOTING smoking along with the media and just about everyone else. But when the tobacco companies started giving less money to the politicians THEN all of a sudden the pharmaceutical (who had become the new number one contributers to political campaigns) say its so horribly bad for you. And now you cant even talk about tobacco because all the sheeple out there believe the bull that the government and medical community throws at people. Yes tobacco may cause cancer, but so do things like artificial sweetners,air fresheners,parts in both T.V's and PC's, preservitives in foods, those expensive pills your DR gives you, and if you live near a major city smog and other polutents. So why bitch and moan about tobacco when there are so many better and deadlier things to bitch about? Suck it up and drive on whineass!!!!
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1556690 - 05/17/03 07:05 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
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Chucking butts out car windows, dumping ashtrays in parking lots, parks and on the roadsides, lighting up without seeing if others around care or have health problems. Smokers are their own worst enemies.
I suppose this would be different than deisel fumes spewing from stacks on trucks, much more harmful....same as the gum wrappers and McDonalds bags I see from non smokers....or even the beer cans from both sides....personaly, I dispose of my butts properly, I strip it and pocket it....I dont like to leave a trail to be followed....
I live in an area where we have had below normal rainfall the past five years and a very high fire danger. Chucking a butt out a car window is a hell of a lot more potentially harmful than diesel fumes. Ever had a wild fire near your home? Ever see your neighbors' homes go up in flames due to some asshole chucking his cigarette butt out the window instead of being smart enough to put it out in his ash tray? I am grateful that you dispose of your butts properly. But I'm of the opinion that cigarette butts are much worse than McDonalds bags, gum wrappers and beer cans. At least I can pick them up from the side of the road when I find them, but I can't reverse the effects of a wild fire on the plants, animals and humans who inhabit my surroundings.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Azmodeus
Seeker
Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: Evolving]
#1556853 - 05/17/03 08:45 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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When i arrived at work one morning a small fire was starting from a but someone had thrown out thier window...
It had landed in dry grass and the flames were 2 feet high, when the guy came out with his garden hose and put it out....there was a shed right next to it, and a house beside that.
Still people should be able to smoke whenever they want. I just hope they're not all as dumb as the guy who threw the but out his window that morning.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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JohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
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Re: should LSD be legal [Re: silversoul7]
#1557195 - 05/18/03 12:17 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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For a while, actually, heroin was prescribed as a cure for morphine addiction. Weird shit.
Jr
-------------------- As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!
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