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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
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The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism
    #3099862 - 09/06/04 06:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineZahid
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3099899 - 09/06/04 06:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well, Al Qaeda is a known exploiter, but Sayyed Qutb is definately not the main ideology used to justify terrorism, Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab's early ideologies that became Salafism is most used by terrorists. If you read Qutb's Shade of the Qur'an and other works, you'll find that he was exploring political, religious, and social change in the Muslim world which is why he likely joined Ayna Akhi Muslimeen. In any case, like Muslim grievances, Al Qaeda is willing to exploit anything. There is a correct way to go about armed struggle. You seem to think that any scenario where a Muslim is engaged in armed fighting is bad and naughty.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3099966 - 09/06/04 07:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I do think that most terrorists (Al-Qaeda excluded) do not decide to kill infidels for the hell of it. Rather they bring the Islamisist philosphy into an already pre-existant conflict such as a territorial dispute. As you have been keen to point out, not all muslims in Checnya, Palestine, or Iraq decide to go blow up innocent people, even if they are involved in armed conflict.

The ones that are willing to commit acts of mass killing, however are the ones that see dispute as spiritual in nature and not territorial. Otherwise it would be impossible to justify things like killing hundreds of children at a school. If the issue becomes not one of national independence, but of good and evil: destroying imperial infidels who are oppressing them at all costs, the outcome must be complete and utter destruction of the enemy. Innocent lives become meaningless.

The only exceptions I can think of are some of the Palestinian Al-Aksa martyrs brigade, secular people who only took up terrorism after it had been established as the way to fight Israel.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3100046 - 09/06/04 07:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I do think that most terrorists (Al-Qaeda excluded) do not decide to kill infidels for the hell of it. Rather they bring the Islamisist philosphy into an already pre-existant conflict such as a territorial dispute. As you have been keen to point out, not all muslims in Checnya, Palestine, or Iraq decide to go blow up innocent people, even if they are involved in armed conflict.

When civilians are attacked, it's almost always linked somehow to Al Qaeda. The Beslan massacre, with the Arabs involved, is now pointing to Al Qaeda, not Aslan's Mujahideen. The car bombs in Iraq are always going back to Al Qaeda linked Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's organization. These people transgress limits in Islam, and they are NOT Mujahideen. The Prophet Muhammad once said, "There will arrive a time of punishment to you when not every Muslim who fights in Allah's Way will be truly fighting for Allah. Some will be fighting on the side of the Rejected One, Shaitan (Satan) while others will be pious in deeds, and fight for none save Allah." (s ahadith vol. 3 128). There are pious Muslims who are fighting occupations through out the Muslim world. These men are brave. Not everyone who claims to be a mujahid is a mujahid!


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Registered: 09/05/04
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Zahid]
    #3100454 - 09/06/04 09:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

From:
The Types of Jihad
http://www.ummah.net.pk/harkat/jihad/t-jihad.htm
(site is offline, but here's the google-cache of the article)
There are two types of Jihad against the Kuffar

1- Offensive Jihad
2- Defensive Jihad

1- Offensive Jihad is when the Muslims launch an offensive attack. If this attack is on the Kuffar who have previously received the message of Islam, then to call them towards Islam before commencement of the attack is considered preferable.

However, if the message of Islam has not reached them, then the Kuffar will be invited towards Islam. If they reject this true faith, then they will have to pay Jizyah (Kufr tax). If they refuse to submit to the payment of Jizyah then the Muslims are to fight against them. With this type of Jihad the Kuffar who plot against the Muslims are repelled and their hearts are filled with fear, so that they do not succeed in their plans.

The offensive Jihad is Fardh Kifayah, the purpose of which is to ensure the Kuffar remain terrorised and away from mischief, thereby, allowing the message of Islam to be conveyed without any obstructions.

If one group of Muslims fulfil this obligation then it will be sufficient on behalf of all Muslims, but if there are no Muslims fulfilling this obligation then everyone is considered sinful.

It is stated in Fatawa Shami: It is required of the Imam (leader) of the Muslims to dispatch the army routinely once or twice a year towards the Kufr countries. It is also the duty of the Muslim public to assist the Imam in this noble cause. If the Imam does not send an army, then he will considered sinful.

The majority of Jihad undertaken at the time of our Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) was within the category of offensive Jihad.

The Quran has called upon the Muslims to undertake the offensive Jihad and when this obligation is satisfactorily fulfilled there would be no apparent need for the defensive Jihad.

When Muslims neglect this important obligation then they are subjected to the defensive Jihad and this has become, with regret, widely common in our time.


http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html


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Offlinethieverycorp
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3101661 - 09/07/04 02:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Why they gotta bring Karl Marx into it?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: thieverycorp]
    #3101706 - 09/07/04 02:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The stuff with Marx has to do with Qutb's philosophy being modernist in origin, just like fascism and communism.
Fascists claimed that all the problems in the world boiled down to a struggle of race, and that in that fight any measure of violence is acceptable. Communists believed that all problems are due to class struggle and violent conflict is justifified in its pursuit. Likewise, Islamic Fundamentalism states that all problems are caused by a religious struggle, and that any means of violence is acceptable if it serves the cause.

All pretty similar if you ask me.


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Offlinethieverycorp
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3101719 - 09/07/04 02:29 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So... "by any means necessary" is what your saying?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3101765 - 09/07/04 02:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

That all problems of humanity are caused by a single race/class/religous conflict which must be one by any means necessary. Lenin said to make an olmelet you have to crack a few eggs, but the violent aspect of communism is not the main thing that links Marxism with Fascism and Islamic fundamentalism. It is the belief in the struggle itself.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3101770 - 09/07/04 02:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

race/class/religion/ideology...


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Offlinethieverycorp
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Re: The Real Roots of Islamic Terrorism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3102475 - 09/07/04 11:07 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Are these people just paranoid or deluded?


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