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InvisibleSteinM
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My thoughts on the Death penalty
    #3076965 - 09/01/04 06:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)



People (meaning anyone with a brain..child or senile old human) who murder should be put to death. Why? because they are the bacteria in what is supposed to be civilised society. Bleach them all and say good riddance.

Rehabilitation almost always fails and its cost far exceeds it's success. Not to mention costs of jailing and prosecution.

When someone is obviously guilty of murder beyond reasonable doubt it's time to reassess the options and conclude that removal is the only option for a healthy society.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Stein]
    #3076981 - 09/01/04 06:48 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I agree but I'm predicting a lot of replies implying that we must understand the "whys" of the murder that was commited.


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Stein]
    #3076988 - 09/01/04 06:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

But juries are very fallible.

If we could scan people's thoughts and know that they were murderers, I'd probably agree with you. But we can't. And a society that puts people to death wrongly in the name of justice is not a just society.

I would like convicted murderers to have the opportunity to die if they want to, and I would personally convert jails into factories. There is no point in imprisoning someone just for "revenge", make them work their debt to society off.


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InvisibleSteinM
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3076991 - 09/01/04 06:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It's the "why's" that create loopholes.  Thank God for lawyers..... :smirk:


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InvisibleSteinM
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: deafpanda]
    #3077001 - 09/01/04 06:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
I would personally convert jails into factories. There is no point in imprisoning someone just for "revenge", make them work their debt to society off.




That is a great idea, but for some fucked up reason it has not been implemented yet.

However, in murders where intent is obvious I stand by my argument.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Stein]
    #3077058 - 09/01/04 07:42 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Haven't you heard of prisoners making license plates? Besides things like that, they also keep the prison running... laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc.

The real problem would be if prisoners wised up and quit working in the prisons. Then instead of costing us only 40,000-50,000 dollars a year to jail them, it would cost WAY more.

Anyway about the death penalty... It's pretty much on it's way out. Most of the world has gotten rid of it. We are one of the few countries that are dragging their heels.

The main problem is that we've executed too many innocent men. That sucks. It's just not cool to kill innocent people.


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InvisibleSteinM
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: fastfred]
    #3077081 - 09/01/04 07:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Are you talking to me? Because I couldn't tell with all that psychobable.

Its not cool to kill innocent people, thats why I stated the word "intent". If someone has intent then they intended to kill someone and thus should be removed.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Stein]
    #3077101 - 09/01/04 08:06 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The problem is that we have executed many innocent men. That is pretty much the whole problem with the death penalty. If there was a way to know intent then it would be no problem and we could go about executing people with a light heart.

That isn't the case though, and it probably never will be. Can you imagine how fucked up it would be to be executed for something you didn't do? Not to mention that the real killer is still roaming the streets.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Stein]
    #3077120 - 09/01/04 08:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It's the "why's" that create loopholes. Thank God for lawyers.....




I was with you until you said "Thank God for lawyers". But, you are right about the loophole thing. Believe me, I don't give a rats ass as to why someone killed another person, all i'm concerned about is the fact that, that person killed another person. If it's not self defense then there's no excuse.


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Stein]
    #3077129 - 09/01/04 08:30 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

> The problem is that we have executed many innocent men.

Exactly... I have nothing against the death penalty, but I do have a problem with the inability to undo a mistake. It isn't like we can bring somebody back from the grave. Until people are wise enough to judge life-and-death correctly 100% of the time, the death penalty should be put away.

> If someone has intent then they intended to kill someone and thus should be removed.

So if I intend to kill somebody, but at the last moment I come to my senses and realize the magnitude of my mistake, I should still be executed for intended murder? This is only a small step from the thought police... if you think about doing something illegal, we assume you already did it and toss you in jail, or chop off your head, or whatever we feel is just... better be careful what you dream about at night... somebody might think that your dreams reflect your actual waking intentions... so lets go ahead and off you just to be safe...

> I would personally convert jails into factories.

Free forced labor to put the honest factory workers out of a job because the prison labor does their job cheaper. Good idea.

The real problem, as I see it, is the lack of distinction between rehabilitation and punishment. We need a system that allows for both, without any ambiguity between the two.

Regarding labor in prison... it needs to be worthless labor... digging a ditch today that you will fill in tomorrow type of useless labor. This would obviously be on the punishment side of the system...


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InvisibleSteinM
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3077133 - 09/01/04 08:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I put a smirk icon after that, meaning yeah right haha lol omg rofllmas roffles hslol loool hahaha tom foolery hahaah lolol hehe ..... lawyers disgust me.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Stein]
    #3077136 - 09/01/04 08:35 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I like the phrase Tom Foolery.. :grin:

I know you were not being serious.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Seuss]
    #3077145 - 09/01/04 08:45 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Free forced labor to put the honest factory workers out of a job because the prison labor does their job cheaper. Good idea.





There are some industries that have labour shortages, I'm not suggesting that they displace regular workers from their jobs.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: deafpanda]
    #3077151 - 09/01/04 08:49 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think they should bring back the chain gangs and just have them pick up litter, I don't know if any of you've been to Detroit before but that city needs a scrub down in the worst way. What better way to clean up a city than to have criminals do it.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3077165 - 09/01/04 08:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

> I think they should bring back the chain gangs and just have them pick up litter

Exactly... this is the type of 'useless' labor I am speaking of. Though you came up with a much better less-useless example than I did. (Useless as in it isn't taking a job away from somebody else that isn't in prison... not in the sense that it has no purpose.)


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3077166 - 09/01/04 08:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

They still have chain gangs. And most juveniles end up picking up trash when they commit crimes.

As far as Detroit needing a scrubbing... You should see Vegas and a lot of other cities.

>There are some industries that have labour shortages,[...]<

What? Did I miss the unemployment rate dropping below zero? Seems like that would be big news...


-FF


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: fastfred]
    #3077172 - 09/01/04 09:01 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Uhhh, it is possible for unemployment to be high and for some industries to have labour shortages for whatever reason, isn't that obvious? For example, in the UK there is a shortage of surgeons so we import them.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: Seuss]
    #3077175 - 09/01/04 09:02 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I was going to say have them build roads in Michigan since those in charge have no idea what they're doing so it couldn't hurt.

I'd be happy with just a nice clean environment and just think of the moral boost in the prisons of getting outside.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: My thoughts on the Death penalty [Re: deafpanda]
    #3077231 - 09/01/04 09:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
Uhhh, it is possible for unemployment to be high and for some industries to have labour shortages for whatever reason, isn't that obvious? For example, in the UK there is a shortage of surgeons so we import them.




If you're importing them it doesn't seem like there is much of a shortage anymore then. You've solved the shortage because there wasn't any in the first place. It just took some rich old fucks to pony up some cash and pay them what they're worth.

Anyway, we were talking about jobs that prisoners could do. Even if there are a significant number of surgeons in prison, I don't think people would want them operating on them.

I admit that it is possible to have a labor shortage, but that's a pretty rare event. Most of the so called "shortages" are just rich folks bitching because nobody will do their shitwork for minimum wage. The only shortage is in the workers pay.


-FF


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