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OfflineMisterKite
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Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible
    #2091227 - 11/11/03 03:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Capital punishment is putrid, on so many levels.

There's obvious reasons why it would be wrong, by why would it be right?

Let's look at it from a moral and economic view point, shall we?

Economically it's more efficent to have a dead inmate, than an inmate to feed and take care of, right? No, that's wrong. A living inmate works in factories making license plates and other such civil services, so he essentially pays for himself. However, killing an inmate using the lethal injection is quite pricey. You need a doctor, an executioner, and expensive chemicals. So it's our tax dollars get drained, a man gets killed, and all in all our society gets no benefits what so ever, not even more license plates.

Morally, it seems to make sense, in some twisted barbaric manner....right? An eye for an eye, I suppose. Well, I would suppose if this was the 14 century, and the world I lived in was all about honor and justice and there was little regard for the larger scheme of things. But since this is the 21st century, and society has now attempted to unify itself and work for the common good, I simply shake my head and with slight inarticulation mutter "How arachaic." For I know realize that this outlook would get us nowhere. BUT, I have an even better reason for those who curl their upper lip and spit out the word "pansy" or something else that makes their dick feel half an inch bigger. An eye for an eye does seem fair, but ONLY TO THE FAMILIES EFFECTED. If those families are willing to fund the whole process, I entitle them to do so. But it's detracting from our tax dollars, and it's not helping us in anyway. Why shoudl we all have to be imposed upon by a few medieval peoples raging with blood lust and vengance?

Now there's another reason one might give. They might say "Well, it scares off potential criminals." Now I would love someone to explain the logic here, because I certainly don't see it. Criminals plan out a crime so they DON'T GET CAUGHT. They don't consider the death penalty when they're plotting to kill someone. The death penalty has no effect on these people's choices, because they feel that they're going to get away with the crime.

Anyone religious should be against the death penalty. All religions stress the importance of forgivenes and of NOT KILLING. There's no way to justify your views if you're religious and support capital punishment.

I just don't see why anyone would support this. The outlook of "You killed someone I know, now I'm going to kill you, it's only fair" seems so goddamn immature. It sounds like something a little kid would say. Let us overcome this childish instinct to do to the perpetrators what they have done to us. No-they don't deserve life, I'll agree with that, but it does us no good to kill them off. And some of the people that are killed are innocent, more than we'll ever know.

SInce 1973, 107 people that have died from the death penalty have been proven innocent. Countless others have been proven innocent before they're killed.Imagine: You just so happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time(and you're the wrong color of skin) and the authorities need someone to blame. Now you're going to die. But before you do, you'll have to livei n the hell that is prison. If anyone here hasn't read Stupid White Men, at least read the section on the death penalty.

Might I also say, giving an inmate the death penalty is almost rewarding them. If you truly want justice, try having the killer live for decades in an 8x8 cell, working all day in a disgusting license plate factory, and having to be chain raped daily by 300 pound scumdogs who carve into your butt cheek "Tight ass". I would want to die personally.

So let's look over this. The death penalty is more expensive than keeping an inmate alive. The death penalty isn't just, because it gets the inmate out of years and years of torture and torment, OR justice makes no difference we just want to better our world by not doing to tothers what you wish not to be done unto you. THe families effected who want the inmate dead are such a small minority that they shoudl have to pay for the whole process. The death penalty's scare tactic is illogical, and the death penalty goes against all religions. Why the fuck would someone support this?


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"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: MisterKite]
    #2091459 - 11/11/03 05:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The death penalty was abolished over here in 1965, originally abolition was to be a five year experiment in 1938 . Anyway are prisons really that bad over there? Over here most people I know who have been down, say it wasn't that bad. A roof over your head, hot food and clean clothes sounds better than some peoples lives on the outside..

Quote:

and the death penalty goes against all religions.




Sorry, but I love showing the Bible for what it really is :smile:

Or if anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death.

and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Then the LORD said to Moses: "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him.

Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Damn, there was a lot of stoning back then, of course capital punishment is justified even God accepts that :tongue:

As for the economic aspects of putting people to death take a look at these.

1. In New York each death penalty trial costs $1.4 million compared with $602,000 for life imprisonment. The cost of imposing the death penalty in New York State has been estimated to be $3 million for each case (NY Daily News, July, 28, 1998).

2. In Florida the cost of each execution was estimated to be $3.2 million, about 6 times the amount needed to incarcerate a convicted murderer for life. From 1973 to 1988 Florida spent $57 million on the death penalty (Miami Herald, July 10, 1988).

3. In Kentucky the cost of a capital trial varied between $2 and $5 million dollars (Blakley, A.F. 1990. Cost of Killing Criminals. Northern Kentucky Law Review 18, 1: 61-79).

4. The most comprehensive study of the costs of the death penalty found that the state of North Carolina spends $2.16 million more per execution than for a non-capital murder trial resulting in imprisonment for life (Duke University, May 1993; Carter, M. 1995.
Cost of the Death Penalty: An Introduction to the Issue. Nebraska Legislature, Legislative Research Division; Cook, P.J. and D.B. Slawson. 1993. Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina. North Carolina Administrative Office of the Courts.).

5. In California the death penalty adds $90 million annually to the costs of the criminal justice system. $78 million of that cost is incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988).

6. The Judiciary Committee of the Nebraska legislature reported that any savings from executions are outweighed by the legal costs of a death penalty case. The report concluded that death penalty does not serve the best interests of Nebraskans (Nebraska Press & Dakotan, January 27, 1998; Carter, M. 1995. Cost of the Death Penalty: An Introduction to the Issue. Nebraska Legislature, Legislative Research Division.).

7. In Texas the cost of capital punishment is estimated to be $2.3 million per death sentence, three times the cost of imprisoning someone at the highest possible security level, in a single prisoner cell for 40 years (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992; Dieter, R.C. 1994. Future of the Death Penalty in the U.S.: A Texas-Sized Crisis. Death Penalty Information Center. Washington, D.C.).

Draw your own conclusions....


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2091482 - 11/11/03 05:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Death penalty does seem a little crude...and really, not everyone who is convicted is guilty.

Most are, maybe 99%+, but for the sake of the innocent, it's can't be justified.

It is more spiritually advanced to not take revenge anyways...


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2091860 - 11/11/03 11:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Wow-those were some truly shocking numbers, stonedphucker.

Some prisons truly are that terrible, if not even more terrible here. I saw this play, The Exonerated, about people who were put on death row who were innocent, but then they were proven innocent and taken off anywhere from 6 to 25 years after(It was like 8 separate monologues). When I talked about having "Tight ass" carved into your ass cheek, that was an actual thing that happened to a man. Every single day for years he was ass raped by multiple men, and they would cut him up and carve things into his body. The scar is so deep though, that plastic surgery wouldn't even be able to cover it up, so he forever his to live with the traumas of prison when he didn't deserve to be there in the first place. It disgusts me.


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"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2091870 - 11/11/03 11:54 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Anyway are prisons really that bad over there? Over here most people I know who have been down, say it wasn't that bad. A roof over your head, hot food and clean clothes sounds better than some peoples lives on the outside..



That's why some homeless people will commit petty crimes in the winter that carry short sentences so they'll get out by summer. However, if I was facing hard time(like a life sentence), I'd think twice before murdering someone.

Anyway, most murders are either crimes of passion which are done in the heat of an argument or are carried out by career criminals who don't expect to get caught. The death penalty doesn't deter either of these things.

As far as punishment goes, I know there are a lot of self-righteous individuals who think that violent criminals are sub-human and deserve only the worst punishment, but I see things a little differently. I think the primary role of a prison should be to keep dangerous people off the streets(the secondary role should be rehabilitation, but I'll get to that some other time). Therefore, I have no problem putting certain murderers away for life(but only the ones who seem likely to kill again, not the "crimes of passion" type of murderers). Oh ya, and they should be kept separate from the non-violent criminals such as thieves.

Also, if you want to keep the murder rate down, legalizing drugs would work wonders by putting dangerous drug-dealers out of business. Come to think of it, legalize all victimless crimes. Have legitimate brothels so you won't have guys murdering hookers in their pick-up trucks. Have Casinos so you won't have the mafia killing people over gambling debts. Also, improve the inner-city public schools so that poor children will have something higher to aspire to than dealing drugs and robbing liquor stores.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: MisterKite]
    #2091888 - 11/11/03 12:01 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

even if just one innocent person is killed
the whole process becomes suspect.

stoned's numbers are interesting.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the
disporportionate manner in which the
death penalty is dealt to minorties.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: afoaf]
    #2093109 - 11/11/03 05:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

AFOAF- Your statement can be interpreted in two ways.

First, the "disproportionate" number of minorities being executed is not a statement against the death penalty itself, rather the system that leads to the conviction and sentancing. I personally belive that minorities do commit more capital crimes (if you have actual facts/figures that contradict this, I"m always open to changing my position, please post them). If minorities do commit more crimes, then they should recieve the death penalty more than whites (whites are, in fact, a minority. Any racial category compared against the whole appears as a minority, I belive that the word "minority" was created to avoid the un-PC phrase "non-white").

Secondly, if you think that capitol punishment is "disproportionate" to non-Whites, wouldn't that mean that a way to balance that out would be to execute more white criminals? I'd be for that. I think that any person that commits murder without extinuating circumstances should be executed.

Execution serves a number of purposes for society. It guarantees that the criminal will not be, at any date, freed (by a parole board, a Dukakis-esque governor, or escape) to re-offend and kill more innocent people. It also assures that vengance is executed for the crime commited. In a judicial system like ours, the family of a victim doesn't need to worry about going out and lynching the man that murdered their child, because society, as a whole, acts out the vengance on the person. Finally, it (should) serve as a deterrant to commit crimes. If the death sentance was expedited, with 12 year jail terms before execution, and was made a public display, people would have reason to not commit crimes. Since this is not the case currently, people have no strong deterrant against commiting heinous crimes.

The vast majority of statements against the death penalty are either exaggerated, total lies, or are focused on the acutal system of determining guilt or innocence, rather than the actual punishment itself.

For those against the death penalty, let me posit a question.

If a man came into a police station, informed the police that he had murdered over 100 women in the past 20 years, lead them to every body that he had hidden, showed them pictures of him commiting his violent acts, every victim had his DNA in their bodies and under their fingernails (defense posture wounds), would you recommend the death penalty for this criminal? Lets also add to this theoretical incident a psychologists examination that stated that the man was a sociopath (that he did know the difference between right and wrong, he just chose to commit wrong actions), and was extremely likely to reoffend in the future.

Either we execute him, after a fair trial, and assure that he never kills again, or we keep him alive in a prison somewhere. The question that I'd have to ask is, why keep him alive? TO what purpose would that be? Personally, if given the choice, I'd take a quick, painless death over years of incarceration. Which one is more humane?


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2093131 - 11/11/03 05:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Also, the statment that Mister Kite made about "Expensive" chemicals is, at best, subjectively wrong and at worst, a deliberate lie. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/drowfacts.htm gives us the combination of drugs as

1)Sodium Thiopental (lethal dose - sedates person)
2)Pancuronium Bromide (muscle relaxant-collapses diaphragm and lungs)
3)Potassium Chloride (stops heart beat)
Cost per execution for drugs used : $86.08


This page also shows that the average cost per day per inmate to remain in death row is $61.58.

I realize that something like "costs alot" is quite subjective, perhaps he wasn't aware of these figures, perhaps 90$ to guarantee a person won't kill again is "too much". Either way, thats the rest of the story.



This post was edited to change "Mushroom John" to "Mister Kite", I misread the actual posters nickname, I apologize.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


Edited by enimatpyrt (11/11/03 07:34 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: MisterKite]
    #2093254 - 11/11/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What amazes me is that so many conservatives who are so quick to decry acts of "theft" by the state are so supportive of the state's right to commit murder.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: silversoul7]
    #2093473 - 11/11/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You quote the bible using Old testament. The old testament is looked upon by most christians as history instead of law.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #2093491 - 11/11/03 07:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I used no Bible quotes. Please learn how to properly use the "Quick Reply" feature.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: silversoul7]
    #2093519 - 11/11/03 07:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

mur?der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m?rdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

ex?e?cute ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-kyt)
tr.v. ex?e?cut?ed, ex?e?cut?ing, ex?e?cutes
To put to death, especially by carrying out a lawful sentence.


A murder is an "unlawful" killing, an execution is carrying out a "lawful sentance". These are obviously not the same thing, thus, your assertation is incorrect.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2093532 - 11/11/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Another reason your assertation was wrong.

As it has been noted here before, the Constitution does not provide for taking money from the people. It does provide the condition that "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" may be removed "by due process of law". Thus, your life, or your liberty, can be removed from you by the law, if due process is followed. This gives credence to teh death penalty, as well as every sentance from probation, to life in prison.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2093573 - 11/11/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enimatpyrt said:
mur?der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m?rdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

ex?e?cute ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-kyt)
tr.v. ex?e?cut?ed, ex?e?cut?ing, ex?e?cutes
To put to death, especially by carrying out a lawful sentence.


A murder is an "unlawful" killing, an execution is carrying out a "lawful sentance". These are obviously not the same thing, thus, your assertation is incorrect.




Theft
noun: the act of taking something from someone unlawfully

It goes both ways. Basically all that means in both scenarios is that the state gets to apply a double-standard to itself.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: MisterKite]
    #2093586 - 11/11/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MisterKite said:
Economically it's more efficent to have a dead inmate, than an inmate to feed and take care of, right? No, that's wrong. A living inmate works in factories making license plates and other such civil services, so he essentially pays for himself. However, killing an inmate using the lethal injection is quite pricey. You need a doctor, an executioner, and expensive chemicals. So it's our tax dollars get drained, a man gets killed, and all in all our society gets no benefits what so ever, not even more license plates.




Capital criminals aren't allowed to do work functions in most prisons. They are sentance to maximum or super maxiumu security prisons where the inmate:guard ratio is about 1:4 or 1:8. This requires a large number of guards and eliminates the possibility of them "working" to help society. A doctor is a prison staffer anyway (all prisons have doctors), and the executioner is a guard who has volunteered for the job. My post above deals with the expensive chemical argument. License plates, btw, aren't made by any inmates anymore, I don't belive.

Quote:


Morally, it seems to make sense, in some twisted barbaric manner....right? An eye for an eye, I suppose. Well, I would suppose if this was the 14 century, and the world I lived in was all about honor and justice and there was little regard for the larger scheme of things. But since this is the 21st century, and society has now attempted to unify itself and work for the common good, I simply shake my head and with slight inarticulation mutter "How arachaic."




Guaranteeing to the general populace that a horrible criminal will never kill again isn't working for the common good? If a person demonstrates by their behavior that their goal is NOT to work for a common goal, and unity, that they goals are the exact opposite, that is, to seperate, to cause pain, to harm people and their families, then they give up their right to exist in a free society, and thus, society maintains the right to punish them. The COMMON GOOD is the exact right statement there, execution is bad for the murderer, but for the society as a whole, it is beneficial.

Quote:


For I know realize that this outlook would get us nowhere. BUT, I have an even better reason for those who curl their upper lip and spit out the word "pansy" or something else that makes their dick feel half an inch bigger. An eye for an eye does seem fair, but ONLY TO THE FAMILIES EFFECTED. If those families are willing to fund the whole process, I entitle them to do so. But it's detracting from our tax dollars, and it's not helping us in anyway. Why shoudl we all have to be imposed upon by a few medieval peoples raging with blood lust and vengance?



Looking at the methods of execution in use today, you'll see that it is not medieval nor barbaric. Vengance is the job of the criminal justice system. You clearly state "If those families are willing... I entitle them to do so". Would you say that, instead of "expensive doctors, chemicals, and executioners", that upon a death sentance being handed down, the convicted should be released to the family to be executed at their leisure? Maybe if they paid for the rope or the bullet, you'd be happy? Isn't htat what you said, that if the family would absorb the cost, you entitle them to do it? somehow, I bet your opinion will change on this issue now that it has been presented this way.

Also, one of the purposes of local/state taxes is to pay for the criminal justice proceedings. The entire community "willingly" pays for the proceedings to assure their safety. This doesn't really work out that well today, due to the rampant crime, but it is societies responsbility to pay for court costs.

Quote:


Now there's another reason one might give. They might say "Well, it scares off potential criminals." Now I would love someone to explain the logic here, because I certainly don't see it. Criminals plan out a crime so they DON'T GET CAUGHT. They don't consider the death penalty when they're plotting to kill someone. The death penalty has no effect on these people's choices, because they feel that they're going to get away with the crime.




Since you offer no objective proof here, my commentary upon shall be just as subjective, and in the form of a question. DO you think that if executions were made public, that a criminal, just before he murders a victim, could think about the man he saw executed the week before, and decide not to? Using your logic, absolutely no punishment is effective as a deterrant, since it doesn't matter to the criminal WHAT his punihsment will be, since he plans on not getting caught.

Quote:


Anyone religious should be against the death penalty. All religions stress the importance of forgivenes and of NOT KILLING. There's no way to justify your views if you're religious and support capital punishment.




I think that this has been addressed already.

Quote:


I just don't see why anyone would support this. The outlook of "You killed someone I know, now I'm going to kill you, it's only fair" seems so goddamn immature. It sounds like something a little kid would say. Let us overcome this childish instinct to do to the perpetrators what they have done to us. No-they don't deserve life, I'll agree with that, but it does us no good to kill them off. And some of the people that are killed are innocent, more than we'll ever know.




What, pray tell, could we do to a person to guarantee that they'll never kill again? Escapees, parolees, and dukakis-style freedom-eese have repeated their crimes. Not one singular person who was executed has ever re-offended. Not a one. Read my other post as to why society should have the death penalty.

Quote:


SInce 1973, 107 people that have died from the death penalty have been proven innocent. Countless others have been proven innocent before they're killed.Imagine: You just so happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time(and you're the wrong color of skin) and the authorities need someone to blame. Now you're going to die. But before you do, you'll have to livei n the hell that is prison.





Innocent people shouldn't be executed. They shouldn't be jailed either. Should we get rid of jails, since numerous people have been convicted, wrongly, and sent to jails? No. We need to reform our system.
Quote:


If anyone here hasn't read Stupid White Men, at least read the section on the death penalty.




I wouldn't read or believe one word that slobbering, obese liar puts to paper, his web site, or his ignorant, fact-deprived movies. Maybe you shouldn't either?

Quote:


Might I also say, giving an inmate the death penalty is almost rewarding them. If you truly want justice, try having the killer live for decades in an 8x8 cell, working all day in a disgusting license plate factory, and having to be chain raped daily by 300 pound scumdogs who carve into your butt cheek "Tight ass". I would want to die personally.




I see. You claim that prison is "torture" and "inhumane". Quite obviously the Constitution bans this. They should be executed to avoid having to live in an "inhumane" environment. The majority of prisoners need to be rehabilitated, rather than put in inhumane conditions.

Quote:


So let's look over this. The death penalty is more expensive than keeping an inmate alive.




Wrong
Quote:


The death penalty isn't just, because it gets the inmate out of years and years of torture and torment,





Torture and inhumane punishment isn't a viable option. Execute them.

Quote:


OR justice makes no difference we just want to better our world by not doing to tothers what you wish not to be done unto you. THe families effected who want the inmate dead are such a small minority that they shoudl have to pay for the whole process.




So, if families provided the rope, you'd be for the death penalty, correct?

Quote:


The death penalty's scare tactic is illogical, and the death penalty goes against all religions. Why the fuck would someone support this?




Illogical? Hardly.

Against all religions? Hardly.

Read my other post to read why people support it.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2093643 - 11/11/03 08:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thus, your life, or your liberty, can be removed from you by the law, if due process is followed.




What happens when 'due process' results in an un-due verdict and capitol punishment is carried out? More than one innocent man has been wrongly 'executed' by the government of the US. Is that the civilian version of 'collateral damage'?

Sincerely,

A former capitol punishment supporter



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Anonymous

Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2093683 - 11/11/03 08:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

there is no morality in retribution.

the death penalty, if it were proven to be a deterrent to crime, might have a case for it, but the fact is that it is not a deterrent.... nor is it cheaper to give someone a fair capital trial and put them to death than it is to incarcerate them for life.

society gains nothing from the death penalty. its only purpose is as an avenue of vengeance for those victimized by the killer. this is not the way a civilized society behaves. we do not go killing criminals when their threat and cost to society can be just as well, or even better, minimized by locking them up for life.

show me what legitimate purpose the death penalty serves in society. retribution is not a legitimate purpose.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: ]
    #2093714 - 11/11/03 08:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

retribution is not a legitimate purpose.



What's interesting is that even the Texecutioner himself said this during the 2000 election.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: ]
    #2093719 - 11/11/03 08:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

retribution is not a legitimate purpose.



Try telling that to the family of a murder victim.

I see no problem with the death penalty as long as there is DNA evidence combined with the rest.

No DNA, no death penalty. All prisoners on death row who have not already confessed, or have no DNA evidence used against them, should either be granted new trials or have their sentences commuted to life with no parole.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Death Penalty-Did you know such a lack of sense was possible [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2093743 - 11/11/03 08:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I agree LDS. The majority of anti-capital punishment claims aren't "death is bad", it's "an innocent man could be executed". That is quite true. But, an innocent man could be sentanced to life in prison, so maybe we should abolish that as well?

If a person is 100% guilty, DNA evidence, or some other concrete evidence (videotape), and the crime is heinous enough, they should be executed.

If every person is aware that the consequenecs of their action could lead to execution, then they are given the choice to persue those actions or not. If they do, they recive execution, but it was with their knowledge that the actions they were commiting could lead to this outcome.

The entire criminal justice system is set up so that society can get "revenge" on a person for the family of the hurt, or the hurt if they are still alive. Retribution isn't a happy, fun-loving, group-hug type of thing, so people don't like it. however, if criminals know that society will "strike back" if they attack 'us', then they won't commit the crimes. The majority of them, at least.

My instance in the above post has yet to be answered. If a man is certaintly guilty, forensic evidence, videotaped the crimes, confession, showed the cops where the bodies were, had murdered numerous people in heinous ways, and their was no possibility that he would ever stop being a threat to anyoen around him, would you support execution in that instance? Can someone please answer this? I feel that I address any points that a perosn brings up in a debate I am partaking and I would really like the same courtesy extended to me. Thanks again.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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