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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Time [Re: deff]
    #3048040 -

In fact something I find interesting, and which takes your body replacing itself every 7 years much further, is some quantum theory related to time. Terminology gets confusing through context, so I hope I make sense.

Julian Barbour wrote a book called 'The End of Time'. Basically he states that the moment is not in time; time is actually in the moment.

He talks of experiments done on a cat which apparently show that from percieved moment to percieved moment the cat is in fact a completely different cat. Literally. Time as we percieve it moves through these static 'images', making them seem a flowing whole. And in fact there is only one real moment within which ALL of these 'images' are held, and which extends forward and backward into what we call time.

It seems that 'a moment' is what we percieve as about 3 seconds. And every 'moment' as it passes sees us reborn as a complete new set of atoms. i.e. as Deff said cat 'A' is left behind and a 'moment' later, what appears to be the same cat is actually cat 'B', an utterly different cat, so to speak. It is made up of a completely different set of  quantum ingredients. There are millions of versions of this cat extending back and forward through time.

This is perhaps quantifiable as something like watching a movie which is made up of many stills, however when these stills are run past us quickly they appear to be a moving image. Or think of the old turn of the century things you find at fun fairs, where you put your eyes to the hole and they are greeted by a picture. You turn the handle and the pictures flick so quick they appear to be moving - in fact they are separate pictures. And in fact they are all actually in existance simultaneously. Each picture appears to be a moment, and in a perceptual sense is, yet the lot actually all exist in one moment.

So the same with the cat, or us.

Each moment exists 'solidly' and simultaneously as a part of some kind of hyperobject. This hyperobject is kind of the ultimate geometric object; it must be to fit all the shapes we see in the universe within it. This also fits in with Terrence McKenna's thinking and the way he describes time as moving through some kind of hyperobject toward attractor(s).

So it's kind of like there is actually one moment that extends throughout the hyperobject, into eternity one might say. And our perception of time is really just a perception of movement through something (this eternal moment) that is actually completely still. Nothing is moving except for our perception, and that is Time.

So everything that ever was, still is, and everything that will be actually already is. We just haven't 'flicked' to that picture in our viewer. Our consciousness is wrapped up in the picture we have in front of us, the present experience - what we subjectively call 'now'. 

Our individual conscious experiences are like little viewer holes into the hyperobject, 'flicking' through scenes that are actually still, and 'forever' held static within the framework of the hyperobject.

Some shit like that anyway..... :sun: Interesting thoughts anyway.

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Re: Time [Re: CJay]
    #3048149 -

Holy shit, that summed up what I was attempting to say with my cookie analogy, except it made sense :laugh:. Great post :smile:

Seriously though, you couldn't have summed it up better.


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Re: Time [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3048354 -

BlueCoyote said:
In godly realms, where time and matter get different meanings, you can imagine time like tiny rooms, or parts of space, fractals or splitters of glass.



I was so delighted to read this. I havn't known of anyone who has seen into the other dimensions like I have and it was strange to read this too. How do you know this?

I was exploring in other realms once curious what it's like. The parts of space or tiny rooms, fit. Moments don't move in a linear sequence. They jump in and out of them as they create them independantly from one another and they can jump in and out of others to. It was soo cool.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Time [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3048556 -

so time 'moments' are actually configurations...

....it seems they may be......

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Re: Time [Re: Frog]
    #3048563 -

I think I see where my confusion lies. As Evolving says, time exists. It is a measurement we use in this dimension, or world, to measure the distance between events. We can do this because of the way our Universe is constructed. Am I right on this so far?

But time, the way we intend to mean it as invented to describe the distance between events, doesn't probably exist outside our Universe. Because within our Universe, time definitely exists.

And then the way time is discussed as not existing, or as everything happening all at once, this is in a different dimension.

Would this be correct, without getting too technical about it?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Time [Re: Frog]
    #3048577 -

I guess so

I would personally swop 'our Universe' for 'our subjective Universe'.

But I may be completely wrong.

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Re: Time [Re: CJay]
    #3048591 -

Yes, universe implies all. Our consensus reality is not objective but subjective, and the only reason for the similarities which make up what we consider "physical reality" is due to our stikingly similar design as humans. Time is a human concept, but it's true that the transition effect exists, perceptually. On an objective level, I don't think linear time would exist at all, for the reasons CJay and me pointed out (lack of ccontinuing self - transition of timeframes of self, each unique and engrained with 'memories' of the ones 'before' itself, to make up the experience of being chronopassive).

But yes, I may be completely wrong too, which is why I never put much of an emphasis on beliefs before experience.


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Re: Time [Re: CJay]
    #3048595 -

Well, going off on a different tangant that a couple of other people brought up...

I don't mind being bound by time. I like knowing what I'm supposed to be doing and when I'm supposed to be doing it. My life would be chaos if I didn't have a schedule.

However, that being said, during my free time, when I'm just fucking around, I have no time schedule. And during this freedom from time constraints, time can either feel like it is suspended, or 8 hours can sweep by with the movement of a second hand on a watch, within a minute.

But anyways, I still don't see how time cannot exist in a different dimension. Unless this means that in a different dimension, we are in the zero point field, where we can tap into a general consciousness of all things from all time, regardless of whether we ever experienced the events or thoughts existing there.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Time [Re: CJay]
    #3048598 -

Thats how I saw it. Morphengenic fields are set up to create a scenerio you can be interative within. When you are done playing in it, you can create a completely different one to experience and play in. You can jump in ones others create and invite people to share in yours. It was just far out. I also saw these created in mass scale. There were ones set up for anyone who wanted to jump into a general theme to share in with many others. Say you done playing in one you created and wanted you break. You could then jump into the group one and kick back on a sail boat for a while dreaming up your next "moment" in time to experience.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Time [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3048609 -

But you can't do it all at once, can you, jiggy?

And CJay and Deff, why would we care if the cat is a different cat or not? What does this mean? Is this something important to understand? Are you talking about time from the perspective of the theory of quantum mechanics?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Time [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3048615 -

I've had a similar 'experience' whereby consciousness was shown to be as an infinite strand of 'DNA-like' coils with nodes detaching to form personified bubbles of consciousness, each interacting within the cloud of frequencies and pulses, information transmission on such a huge scale (perceptually) to create the lifeforce of a higher being. (shown to me as pure light)

I dunno, it was during my hypnagogic pre-dream state, but it was perceptually more real than this.


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Re: Time [Re: Frog]
    #3048619 -

Correct, in my current knowing. I havn't seen into any consciousness that is aware of all of it at the same time. I don't think anyone talking about time being simulataneous means that you are aware of all of existance at the same time. Maybe thats where some confusion lies.

Can you imagine what an aboslute mind fuck THAT would be? LOL


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Time [Re: deff]
    #3048623 -

It was an analogy to show how illusionary our perception of a linear timeframe is. These events do not exist one after another, but rather all at once, with some having engrained memories of being in a past existence. The reason for our perception of flowing time is due to the overlapping of our scanning consciousness on these timeframes (CJay said 3 seconds, but I don't know why this time was chosen).


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Re: Time [Re: deff]
    #3048648 -

This does not make sense to me, but I guess I'll have to wait until I am able to visit a different dimension to see how this works, experiencing all things all at one time. I just don't see how that works.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Time [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3048675 -

Another understanding I have for comprehending simultaneous time is that though it all is not made avaible to you at the same moment, one who knows how can visit any moment event in time to observe of it to learn from or even incarnate into a life form if they are available to experience a specific point in time to gain from what it may have to offer.

Observing hinders nothing, but if after this incarnation, you wanting to live in the wild west in the 1800's you could set that up and a new time line would be born.

I have some friends who get flash images from other lives they are existing in now and many visit them during dream time for cross refrencing similiar lessons learned or not learned in others that apply to this life.

Deff, your visual fits the bigger model of what it looks like from the outside based on my current understanding. Bubbles moving along a spiral works.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Time [Re: deff]
    #3048818 -

Nice one dude.

And you know biologically you are right about the body replacing itself etc.

I have to apologise because I was trying to remember about that cat, and I just dug out Barbour's book since I got home. He only uses a leap of his pet cat to illustrate what is known atomic and quantum physics, and it wasn't the subject of experiments.

Also the '3 second moment' - I was trying to remember....that is actually the duration of conscious moment: the specious present. The atoms and subatomic particles within us change at a rate far far quicker than that!

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Re: Time [Re: CJay]
    #3048844 -

Oh ok, that's what I figured you meant but wasn't sure.

Very intersting topic though :laugh:


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Re: Time [Re: Frog]
    #3048875 -

Quote:
time can either feel like it is suspended, or 8 hours can sweep by with the movement of a second hand on a watch, within a minute.




Is this perhaps because the time-pathway of experience is not a straight line? They are perhaps fractal lines. As we move through the pattern there are times of rapid inception of novelty and times of mundaneness. There are times of focused attention and there are times of clock watching bordom.

As for the 'zero point field', as you call it, I am inclined to kind of agree. I think in this hyperdimensional experience we can perhaps tap into any point in time or space....and beyond. According to Barbour's theory the subjective 'zero point field'/hyperdimensional experience may well have objective scientific truth; since what he capitulates means that all of time, it's events, and all of conscious experience are there for us to indulge in.

Edited by CJay (08/25/04 02:23 PM)

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Re: Time [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3048883 -

Absolutely wicked man, I'm seein it.....I know what you are talking about.  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


And u Deff :thumbup:

.....beyond.....and still we can fly on......

Edited by CJay (08/25/04 02:37 PM)

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Re: Time [Re: Frog]
    #3048908 -

Yes it really does not matter about the cat being another cat - subjectively and experientially it makes no odds. And yes it was from the perspective of quantum mechanics, even from atomic perspective.

All this serves for me is a regular scientific theory which I can apply to subjective hyperdimensional experience, in order to form a metaphor to talk about that experience within this regular 4d reality. I also find it pleasing that (oh so rational) scientists are almost slowly proving the existence of such realms as one might call spiritual without perhaps even realising. The fact that 100 years ago one would have been laughed out of the Halls for intuiting there are more than 4 dimensions...Yet now quantum theory proposes 12 or so, and so on.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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