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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3028111 -

Point taken. I see where you're coming from, but I think it's precisely because of our selfish desire to have that person all to ourselves that we are hurt by their infidelity. Jealousy is a manifestation of selfishness and possessiveness. I think if you could truly get past your ego to the point of only desiring their happiness, then you would not be hurt by them fooling around with other people.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028134 -

man, I 've eaten a lot of acid and studied under a lot of yogis and meditated for God knows how many thousands of hours, but I have to admit I'm still a jealous motherfucker. I could ignore the emotion, but I counldnt prevent it from occuring. And also, I'm not a big fan of denial based in pipe-dream idealism.

if we didnt have egos, we wouldnt be human beings. I'm not aware of a living creature that doesnt have some form of ego, or at least self-preservation instincts. These things are not all that we are, but they do have their purpose. If you're going to deny them, you might as well cut out a big chunk of your DNA and deny that, too.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3028153 -

Yes, I understand it's going against our biology, but so is celebacy, and people manage to pull that off. I'm sure it's possible with enough self-discipline.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028158 -

There are no selfish relationships; only selfish PEOPLE.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028205 -

silversoul7 said:
Again, answer my question:  How is it not selfish to forbid someone else from sleeping with anyone they choose?  If we only care about the other's happiness, then it would naturally follow that we allow them to do whatever makes them happy, even if that includes sleeping with other people.


Short and to the point, open relationships are unselfish, and monogamous ones are extremely selfish.

If I had my way... :evil:

..I would dissolve every relationship on Earth and plunge humanity back into an entirely egoless existance!! :mushroom2: :thumbup:


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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3028212 -

Lightningfractal said:
silversoul7 said:
Again, answer my question:  How is it not selfish to forbid someone else from sleeping with anyone they choose?  If we only care about the other's happiness, then it would naturally follow that we allow them to do whatever makes them happy, even if that includes sleeping with other people.


Short and to the point, open relationships are unselfish, and monogamous ones are extremely selfish.

If I had my way... :evil:

..I would dissolve every relationship on Earth and plunge humanity back into an entirely egoless existance!! :mushroom2: :thumbup:


I actually wouldn't go that far.  I've said monogamy is selfish, but what I didn't say was that selfishness is necessarily a bad thing.  As long as we still have our physical bodies, we'll still have a need for an ego.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028232 -

SS7: Why does it matter to you if relationships are selfish or not? Are you having girl problems? What are your internal motivations for asking this question?

If two people both agree to take part in a monogamous relationship, then it's not selfish to not want the other person to mate with others. It's not selfish because they both agreed to a BINDING CONTRACT. Most binding contracts require the participating parties to surrender *some* of their respective rights. In a monogamous relationship, you surrender your right to mate with other people. It's not about jealousy or selfishness. The reason why a person in a monogamous relationship gets mad when the other person goes off humping someone else is because he/she violated the contract of monogamy. In other words, that person got the short end of the stick. Is it wrong for you to be mad if you got screwed over in a deal? I think not. It's not selfish for wanting the other person to stay true to their words when they entered into the contract.

Along the same lines:
I assume you live in the US (if not, then just say you do for hypothetical reasons). And since you are a citizen of the US, you are under some kind of contract whereby you surrender some of your rights. Is the US *selfish* for not allowing you to leave the country, join al queda and become a traitor, and fight against the US?

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: TheChiaPetFarmer]
    #3028249 -

Quote:
SS7: Why does it matter to you if relationships are selfish or not? Are you having girl problems? What are your internal motivations for asking this question?


Why is it that people must always suspect a personal motivation for my philosophical ideas? I arrived at this conclusion through logic, and nothing else.

Quote:
If two people both agree to take part in a monogamous relationship, then it's not selfish to not want the other person to mate with others. It's not selfish because they both agreed to a BINDING CONTRACT. Most binding contracts require the participating parties to surrender *some* of their respective rights. In a monogamous relationship, you surrender your right to mate with other people. It's not about jealousy or selfishness. The reason why a person in a monogamous relationship gets mad when the other person goes off humping someone else is because he/she violated the contract of monogamy. In other words, that person got the short end of the stick. Is it wrong for you to be mad if you got screwed over in a deal? I think not. It's not selfish for wanting the other person to stay true to their when they entered into the contract.


I understand the whole contract argument, but I think the very reason why you have to agree to not see other people is because of a selfish desire to have that person all to yourself. If we didn't have such self-serving desires, we wouldn't feel the need to enter into such a contract.

Quote:
Along the same lines:
I assume you live in the US (if not, then just say you do for hypothetical reasons). And since you are a citizen of the US, you are under some kind of contract whereby you surrender some of your rights.


Bullshit. I refuse to surrender my rights simply because my parents happened to fuck here.

Quote:
Is the US *selfish* for not allowing you to leave the country, join al queda and become a traitor, and fight against the US?


Very much so.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028276 -

I think they are basically selfish, no matter how you like loving someone, your doing it becasue YOU want to.

I was involved with a girl with a boyfriend and i loved her so much and loved giving her so much attention, i thought i liked making her happy, but at the end of the day it didnt make me happy anymore so i dropped her stankinass. I still love her in some weird way, but i wish i didnt!


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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028284 -

Quote:
Bullshit. I refuse to surrender my rights simply because my parents happened to fuck here.


Haha. Funny. That's not your choice. Whether you agree to it, or even choose to comprehend it, you've given up some of your rights already buddy. Rethink this one before you get yourself into trouble, ok? Don't go into a theater and yell "fire", yeah?


Quote:
I arrived at this conclusion through logic, and nothing else.


And this is the same logic you used to arrive at the conclusion in the first quote? Yeah, ok. I can definitely see where you're coming from now.


Quote:
Very much so.


Then what are you doing in the US? If the US is "being selfish", then by you staying here, aren't you approving of their selfishness?

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: TheChiaPetFarmer]
    #3028297 -

He's just pointing out that its selfish and it is.

Chill out, jeez.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: TheChiaPetFarmer]
    #3029522 -

TheChiaPetFarmer said:
Quote:
Bullshit. I refuse to surrender my rights simply because my parents happened to fuck here.


Haha. Funny. That's not your choice. Whether you agree to it, or even choose to comprehend it, you've given up some of your rights already buddy. Rethink this one before you get yourself into trouble, ok? Don't go into a theater and yell "fire", yeah?


Just because the government does not recognize certain rights does not mean I have surrendered them. They don't recognize my right to smoke weed, but I do that anyway.

Quote:
Quote:
I arrived at this conclusion through logic, and nothing else.


And this is the same logic you used to arrive at the conclusion in the first quote? Yeah, ok. I can definitely see where you're coming from now.


Is this going to deteriorate into a flame war? Cuz if so, I'd like to know ahead of time so I can put you on ignore.

Quote:
Quote:
Very much so.


Then what are you doing in the US? If the US is "being selfish", then by you staying here, aren't you approving of their selfishness?


Unfortunately, there are no unselfish countries out there. There are few, if any, unselfish people out there. Selfishness is a part of human nature.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3029588 -

I have to agree with DoctorJ here.

I think you may be overlooking a small thing - if you're involved in anything, youre connecting yourself with it. Yes, if you're in a relationship, you're "selfish" because you are binding your ego with someone else's.
Example: It is selfish to play sports.
It is selfish to act kindly. ( because of the reciprocal relationship here - if you are kind to others, you expect others to see you as kind. OR, as I've noticed in some people, they automatically feel you owe them for their un-requested kindndess )
It is selfish to exercise
It is selfish to smoke.
*EVERYTHING* can be interpreted as selfish, depending on who is doing it. Thats what makes evolutionary psychology such a solid theory.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3029780 -

Quote:

think outside the norm for a minute and try to look at things as if you are an observer from another world and you'll see what i mean.


That sounds like a very anthropological perspective.

It?s like the geology/biology of human societies. Jealousy and monogamous relationships are not intrinsic human traits, nor are they necessarily biologically beneficial. The structure and conditioning of our society make us believe in monogamy and our romantic ideals about courting and love. These "Romantic" ideals have not existed since the beginning of time. Different practices have existed in different societies. Nuclear families work well with our social dynamics. And... our relationships are quite like intimate friendships in which you own the other person's genitals. Yes, there are plenty of differences but that's the most stripped down and fundamental anthropological element of it.

I want a regular loving romantic relationship like most people, but when you study about how whole societies work and what they believe, you see the two have more than a casual correlation. The original question is a very personal one, so I don't really think too much anthropological thought should be applied to it, but it's great to keep it in mind. I can't really answer on a personal basis, for lack of experience (damnit).


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... just some food for thought.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3029798 -

As the chef from southpark say's " you gotta make love to your woman, you gotta lay her down by that fire". This type of relationship is sexual, but not selfish. How you ask? Well when the Chef is making love to his women they are sharing and giving to eachother what god gave them, their sexual organs. On the basis that they are in a meaningful relationship and care for the other well being. But when monogamous relationshps arise it is extremeley selfish, why you ask? Simple, because these so called relationships do not mean anything, both people involved are in it to complete their sexual desires. Or in the words of fifty Cent they are there "to bust a nut".

EZ BUhdda as in the green

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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