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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Monogamy or Polygamy?
    #2121897 - 11/19/03 05:42 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

For the purpose of this post I will consider this discussion to center on unmarried people; and define monogamy as having one sexual partner and polygamy as having multiple sexual partners, not at once, but within the same dating time frame.

Discussion of disease, pregnancy, and jealousy aside; if you are honest with your partner(s), what do you see as the ethics of these two stances? What are the possible benefits and repercussions?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Swami]
    #2121944 - 11/19/03 06:34 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Well considering we are trying to transend beyoned our animal instincts haveing multiple partners would be a step back into the dark ages.



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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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Offlinethe universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
Male

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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Swami]
    #2121991 - 11/19/03 08:07 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

It's all up to personal taste, I guess. I've had my days of polygamy, but those recently ended and now all I can say is that if I knew my girl was fucking other dudes I would fucking flip. So I don't fuck other girls out of respect for her.


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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: EvilGir]
    #2122365 - 11/19/03 12:09 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Well considering we are trying to transend beyoned our animal instincts ...
We are? What makes you think this is desirable? Should we starve to death; stay out in the rain and cold? Not defend ourselves or run when danger presents itself? Why even have one partner then? Mating is merely an animal instinct.

...haveing multiple partners would be a step back into the dark ages.
The "Dark Ages" was when superstition ruled supreme and the advancement of knowledge was supressed. Don't think it was about sexuality and orgies.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Swami]
    #2122388 - 11/19/03 12:17 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

My only issue with polgamy is the spreading STDs. If people want to have multiple partners, and the multiple partners are all fine with it, then I see no reason they shouldn't be allowed to do as they wish. I don't understand why people feel that their own personal views/morals are the only correct ones, and should be followed by everybody else.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Seuss]
    #2122400 - 11/19/03 12:23 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

I personally believe in monogamy, but when the chicks flock around as they are naturally attracted to my aura, who am I to disappoint them? Sometimes we just have to make personal sacrifices.

Damn, I wish that hottie on the right would get her hand out of my bathing suit and off my ass!


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Swami]
    #2122441 - 11/19/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

i've got nothing wrong with honest polygamy, but i've yet to meet any women who feel the same... i guess jealousy is a hangup for most people.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Swami]
    #2122639 - 11/19/03 02:04 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Ethics of polygamy: what two or more consenting adults do sexually is their own business to deal with.

Ethics of monogamy: (Be it a pair of 2, or 3, or what have you) boundaries need to be established by each individual couple. Nothing is universal as to what works, couples have the right to feel their way out.

Is one better than the other? That's relative to the needs of each individual, where they're at in life. Either could benifet or be devasting or somewhere in between.

Have you noticed any themes in personality types that deal well or poorly with either/or?

Benifets of polygamy in my experience: exploration, getting to explore different types of sex with people who are comfortable and best suited for them. autonomy, getting the personal time you may want for yourself without compromising.

~
i'll type more later, peace.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlineevlovevlove
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #2122766 - 11/19/03 03:01 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

I do not have any problem with anyone practicing polygamy as long as it is not a problem for them (or their parnters) and all parties are honest with each other. Unfortunately, I don't think I have ever known any people who were involved in a polygamous relationship which did not involve pain and suffering regarding the nature of their relationship.

As for myself, I think monogamy is great.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Swami]
    #2122820 - 11/19/03 03:17 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

I personally prefer monogamy, tho I think polygamy is perfectly acceptable, as long as all parties involved are ok with it.

On a somewhat related note, saw a chart in the textbook for my Cultural Anthropology class dealing with the societal benefits of polyandry(where when a woman marries a man, she marries all his brothers as well):

Let's say each woman has 3 male children. In a monogamous society, each of them goes out and marries a woman, so in the next generation, there are 9 male children, all of whom also go out and marry a different women, so that in the next generation there are 27, and so on. This is alright for places like the U.S. which don't have overpopulation problems, but in other countries where there is more overcrowding, this kind of system leads to problems.

Now, on the other hand, in a polyandrous society, the 3 male children would all marry the same woman, and then she(by the same model) would have 3 male children, all of whom would marry the same woman, so in the next generation, there are still only 3 male children.

Of course, in real life, not every woman has 3 male children. She may have all girls, or have several children, but still, a woman isn't likely to have that many more children in a polyandrous society than she is in a monogamous society. And all of her sons marry the same woman, and therefore don't spread out and multiply to the degree that monogamous couples do.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Swami]
    #2122839 - 11/19/03 03:24 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Polygamy works fine as long as the women don't find out about each other.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Evolving]
    #2122910 - 11/19/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

www.caw.org --- "polyamory" as part of the religious experience...
may you never thirst...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: gnrm23]
    #2122915 - 11/19/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

The "Dark Ages" was when superstition ruled supreme and the advancement of knowledge was supressed. Don't think it was about sexuality and orgies.




Don't you think superstition still reigns supreme? Western civilization is based on christianity, altered in one way or another. Ask 10 random people if they believe in god, I'm sure you'll have the majority say yes.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: gnrm23]
    #2122921 - 11/19/03 03:57 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

(william james, on nitrous oxide, on sexual proclivities):
higamous hogamous
woman's monogamous
hogamous higamous
man is polygamous
~
~
of course, ymmv...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflinePedM
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: evlovevlove]
    #2123043 - 11/19/03 04:39 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

>> What makes you think [transcending animality] is desirable? Should we starve to death; stay out in the rain and cold? Not defend ourselves or run when danger presents itself? Mating is merely an animal instinct.

There is no disagreement than humans branch from the animal kingdom, that to some extent we obey our animalistic compulsions, and that we are mammals like horses or like dogs. But, there is clearly a line to be drawn between us and animals.

We, unlike animals, can set aside for a moment our instinctive drive toward food and shelter and consider the question: "What am I doing here? What is this place?" An animal simply accepts it's environment as constant and works within it to the best of it's ability. It gathers for itself and it's family, protects itself from danger, and ensures that it and it's group or family are sufficiently nourished. This is why animals live in such harmony with nature: since they are incapable of considering the causes for their surroundings, they make no endeavours to change or control them.

At some point in history, humans came out of the canopy and began to inquire to themselves, eventually discussing amongst eachother, the "big questions" which we still graple with today. On a large timescale, we can suppose that when the human species encountered these questions, it brought upon our community a sense of cold and fright, a strangely inescapable and seemingly unsolvable discomfort. Suddenly, our environment wasn't something to be taken for granted; it was something to be manipulated in pursuit of contement. This is where the story of Adam and Eve lends it's wisdom. Upon eating of the "Tree of Knowledge", humankind fell out of sync with nature.

And so we dove into the delusion that this feeling of isolation from the world could be remedied by manipulating our external circumstances in such a way that the effects of the world do not present themselves to us. We adopted cloth coverings which soon became less about warmth and more about individuality. We built more and more elaborate shelters, and elaborated upon our luxuries and conveniences continuously until almost every aspect of our lives had become fully automated. Compounded into the 21st century, now the entire earth is choking to sustain us. But still we are, as a species, haunted by that odd feeling of segregation.

So it's a bit silly to suggest that we should crank the wheel backwards and attempt to revert to the animal hierarchy, or allow our remaining animalisms to lead us wherever they make take us. This is an extreme. Such an endeavour holds no solution to our problem, as it is not possbile to undo our profound departure from nature completely. After all, with the capacities we have as human beings to think within the deep and graple with the most profound questions, the creative power to build enormous structures and beautiful works of art, to master expressive mathematics and probe far into the physical world, why would we wish to squander our human lives gathering, storing, fighting, protecting, breeding, behaving only as animals?

To accomplish our reunification with the world that spawned us, we must continue forward. To continue forward is not to deny our animal origins, or to suppress our instincts in shame and disgust. This is the other extreme. We should, as a race of people and as individuals, make every effort to find the middle ground between repression and indulgence, eventually allowing the currents of natural time to gently escort us into a fully sentient harmony with our world and universe. If we can come to terms with ourselves, we can come to terms with our environment. The prodigal son returns.



>> haveing multiple partners would be a step back into the dark ages.

Certainly there was a time in the past when polygamy was a symptom of the degeneration of the moral fabric. One look at the television set will tell us that the same is still largely true today. This doesn't mean that polygamy is an inherent attribute of immorality. It's my personal hope and wish that the future of humanity is one of such profound interconnectedness, of such all-encompassing respect, love and mutuality, that polygamy will be as celebrated as it is accepted. How warm and wonderful it would be if we were so profoundly free from ourselves that we could express ourselves in such a way with liberty and trust.

Though, until we firmly grasp this admittedly lofty goal, polygamy as a social issue and an indivudal issue can be extremely dangerous to all parties involved, regardless of their consent. This brings us to:



>> I do not have any problem with anyone practicing polygamy as long as it is not a problem for them (or their parnters) and all parties are honest with each other.

This is the socially sanctioned point of view. The issue of consent is of course the first item to be considered, but what of the emotional and sexual wellbeing of those involved? There are many complex and far-reaching psychological discordances that do not readily present themselves, and can drive people into acts of polygamy or otherwise which, while consensual, are ultimately destructive. Since the only individual who can be intimately aware of such discordances most often isn't, or is unwillingly to address the matter, that person can find themselves caught up in behaviour which is harmful to themselves or others. Before a consenting adult can be honest with his or her partners, a consenting adult must be honest with him or herself.

My personal opinion on the issue is that monogamy at this stage of our development is probably the safest avenue for most -- if not all -- people. Matters of the heart are extremely sensitive, and must not be handled carelessly. Polygamy is not something I would deem inherently reprehensible, but when the issue of polygamy is approached by a self-oriented mind, only disaster can result. As it was so evenly put:

>> Unfortunately, I don't think I have ever known any people who were involved in a polygamous relationship which did not involve pain and suffering regarding the nature of their relationship.

We can all learn from this kind of dispassionate stance to such an explosive issue.


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OfflineEntelle
wanderer

Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Ped]
    #2123389 - 11/19/03 06:47 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Well, I have no problem with polygamy. i participated in several such relationships. i dont think the socail structure supports true polygamy, and as such, honest examples are hard to find. The biggest thing is the consent issue. As for what Ped said,

"Since the only individual who can be intimately aware of such discordances most often isn't, or is unwillingly to address the matter,"

I disagree, to a certain extent. Yes, people must be honest with themselves, but other people should not presume to know what is best for another person. The only thing that motivated me to examine my life at another's insistance, is the care I have for the person who is asking. If I am doing something harmful, I'm sure I'll ultimately find out, or live in blissful ignorance.
Just my opinion, not the correct one, because there is no such thing as the correct opinion.


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"Not all those who wander are lost."


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Entelle]
    #2127113 - 11/21/03 12:45 PM (13 years, 19 days ago)

and soon enough, our keepers in washington d.c. will pass a law specifying that "marriage" is an act that can only be perpetrated by one man and one woman...
so all of you he/he, she/she, & 3 or 4 or more unions will be, ummm, beyond the pale, eh?
~
"it's none of the government's business who comes to or from my body"
(attributed to grace slick)
~
~


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinejiva
dream serpent

Registered: 11/06/03
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: gnrm23]
    #2128207 - 11/21/03 09:05 PM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Many animals, and lots of primates have life long monogamous pairs as a "culture".

While monogamous pairs are fine and definately better than poligamy in some respects, it depends on if you're trying to mate or you're just being hedonistic.

Lots of neolithic era tribes had monogamous pairs, but on celebration days they would have massive orgies.

If you are in a relationship with one significant other, if new lovers or new significant others enter the relationship and no one has a problem with it. then it is fine.

For raising children, I think that having as many parental figures as possible is the best option.


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i am another you


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Offlineiamhimheisme
jesus christ

Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: Evolving]
    #2128239 - 11/21/03 09:22 PM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Polygamy works fine as long as the women don't find out about each other. 




:lol: i agree.  i have yet to meet a woman who wouldnt/hasnt gotten pissed when finding something like that out.  im(secondary)e, a woman is never only pissed about the dishonesty that accompanies 'cheating,' but rather 1) they're hurt, extremely angry, and unforgiving because of the dishonesty/polygamy itself or 2) they're hurt and angry for the same reasons but forgive with the condition that it doesnt happen again. 


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OfflineEntelle
wanderer

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monogamy or Polygamy? [Re: iamhimheisme]
    #2131140 - 11/23/03 09:45 PM (13 years, 17 days ago)

well, I am a woman who has started polygamious situations, so now you have met one who likes 'em. i think it should really be up to the people in the situation to decide what is best for those people. and if the gov'nt has to be that big of a jerk, and define marriage like that, come up to Canada! I have big ole hopes that gay marriage will keep on being legal. I dont care if they call it marriage, or joining, or shabba-ing! it should be ok for a person to love another person, and have that legally recognized, regardless of gender.


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"Not all those who wander are lost."


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