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InvisibleDoctorJ
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monogamy
    #3989830 - 03/30/05 01:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I am a big believer in monogamy.  I think that a realationship between two people is a very sacred thing, and it should be nutured and protected, like a child.  To me no love is more sacred than the commited love between two people.  Because commitment is a way of saying "I want you and only you, and you want me and only me."  Nothing else in the world can make someone feel more special than knowing that another human being has chosen to stick by them through thick and thin. 

Monogamy, I think, is all about respecting the feelings of the one you love.  Jealousy and insecurity are powerful demons, and a commited relationship is a way to cast these demons out of our lives. 

But there is another side to this, and one I don't particularly agree with.  The "free love" side. 

According to the person who believes in 'free love' ( :rolleyes: ), monogamy is selfish and unnatural. 

But which is more selfish?  Offering your commitment for theirs, in an even exchange of unconditional love?  I don't think that's selfish at all.  I think selfishness is wanting the whole dating pool, having a different person in your bed every night, and disregarding the pain that jealousy and abandonment can generate in the people you supposedly 'love'. 

Free love isn't love at all.  Why don't they just call it 'free sex'?  I really don't see what love has to do with it.  Most of the people I've met who were practitioners of 'free love' (swingers, nicolations and such) didn't seem to have any regard for anything other than their own gratification.  These people have also tended to be some of the most manipulative, seedy people I have ever met.  Their whole world is built on lies.  I have seen this first hand. 

I have watched many swinger circles deteriorate into this cycle of negativity.  When someone you love sleeps with another, I don't care how enlightened you think you are, its going to hurt.  And then the pain and jealousy makes you go out and hurt someone else.  WHY??  why do people do this to themselves and eachother?  Are they just too fickle-minded to make a decision and stick to it?  Do they not have the balls to resist the temptation of infidelity?  Do they not have spines, brains, willpower, dignity, or principles?  Are they unable to take a stand for what they believe in instead of following the path of least resistance to gluttony and sin? 

so what do you guys think?


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: monogamy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3989856 - 03/30/05 01:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:

It'd be like being a millionaire so to speak... the value of money with the sheer concentration of it is relatively meaningless.

Whereas when you have little money.. you appreciate it that much more :tongue:

Shitty example I know, not in anyway suggesting that people that believe in monogamy are poor... but the deficit is what creates the added value. (Figure I'll stick to terms involving money e.g. deficit :tongue:)

:whatever: your gear, do whatever you want with it, just keep me out of it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: monogamy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3989909 - 03/30/05 01:42 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The selfishness comes from you (speaking generally, not YOU DoctorJ) wanting the other person all to yourself. Jealousy and insecurity are the offspring of this selfishness. If you decide you will only be with one person, that is great. However, you must allow the other person the freedom to be with and even have sex with other people if they want to. If you don't like that you'll have to find someone else, who like yourself, only wants to be with one person.

When someone you love sleeps with another, I don't care how enlightened you think you are, its going to hurt. And then the pain and jealousy makes you go out and hurt someone else.

Everyone is responsible for their own feelings.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: monogamy [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3990140 - 03/30/05 02:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
It'd be like being a millionaire so to speak... the value of money with the sheer concentration of it is relatively meaningless.




Just like the value of human life when there is so fucking much human life? We're going to have to start herding them in with bulldozers into underground caverns and shit.... Either that, or market said caverns as tourist attractions.... The tour guide is all like "Moving on from that seven million old stalagmite, we reach the end of the tour, one mile below the surface of the earth. Eventually, after a few millenia, the mineral-rich, dripping water will fuse your skeletal structures into the cavern floor, long after starving bats have eaten out your eyes. Future generations will marvel at what fate these primitive cave-dwellers possibly could have met, and we will raise admissions by two dollars."

Or something. :evil:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: monogamy [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3990203 - 03/30/05 02:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:lol: Well, yeah, don't get me wrong or anything... But if the world was reduced to 50 breeding pairs of humans...

We could enact a law which places us on an endangered species list... which would of course protect us from ourselves.

Which would place significance on the deficit of something. We do it all the time, we slaughter cows, we eat cows, we sell cows :shrug: try doing that to a dolphin that is endangered and that has a limited population (deficet) and all of a sudden shit hits the fan.

Just saying we tend to place value on that which is limited versus that which is in a vast supply... If gold was abundant as hell... I don't think anyone would truly give a shit about it. It's luster would fade as it would be all too common.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: monogamy [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3990277 - 03/30/05 02:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
try doing that to a dolphin that is endangered and that has a limited population (deficet) and all of a sudden shit hits the fan.




Unless you have an overabundance of a certain resource..... :wink:

But ja, I agree with you, and I think it is a fucked up concept, that we tend to find worth not in the substance of materials, but in its availability.  :confused: Its like the holiday season, releasing new, "hot" products... work the consumers into a frenzy and then throw a couple of bloody bones inside the shark tank. Too much focus on materalism isn't really a good thing... unfortunately, its a disease that has plagued us from near the beginning... Too much emphasis on an individual perspective and the "need" for survival... :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: monogamy [Re: moog]
    #3990724 - 03/30/05 04:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

moog said:
The selfishness comes from you (speaking generally, not YOU DoctorJ) wanting the other person all to yourself. Jealousy and insecurity are the offspring of this selfishness. If you decide you will only be with one person, that is great. However, you must allow the other person the freedom to be with and even have sex with other people if they want to.




I mean, people can do whatever they want.  I really don't care.  I'm merely pointing out that the fact that these people are sluts doesn't make them 'enlightened' or anything.  Believe me, I know a lot of these people in real life and trying to think of them as enlightened just cracks me the fuck up...  and then I get kind of sad. 

Seriously, as far as my life experience is concerned, the 'free love' people haven't exactly done a good job of proving their case to me.  How can I respect a group of people who have lied to me, cheated me, stolen from me, not to mention all of the terribly self destructive things they do.  It seems like a very tragic thing to watch.  Do you know people who have had abortions, STD's and unwanted pregnancies (where the father is a mystery)?  I do.  It really seems to me like these people are taking the path of least resistance instead of developing willpower and taking responsibility for their actions.  And I'm sorry but I think that feelings exist for a reason and shouldn't be 'tuned out'.  It seems to me like poligamists don't have much respect for eacother's feelings. 

anyway, people can do whatever they want, I just think certain behaviors are pointless and destructive both for the self and others. 

my personal preference is that of monogamy and commitment.  In that order.  Obviously commitment isnt that importnat right away.  But the longer a relationship continues, the more important keeping the commitment becomes, IMO.  Sure, its necessary to part ways with a lover now and then, but I think people should respect their relationships enough to at least TRY to keep them together.  Some people don't even try!  That's sad, IMO. 

Quote:


If you don't like that you'll have to find someone else, who like yourself, only wants to be with one person.





yeah, I'm sure they are out there :smile:

Quote:

Everyone is responsible for their own feelings.




that statement can be interpreted in a number of ways.  I don't think I have time to list them all.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: monogamy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3990747 - 03/30/05 04:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I think monogamy is an unnattural thing that is ingrained in our mass consciousness from thousands of years of conditioning by religion. I think that it leads to, and is caused by, jealousy.. insecurity, and I think that I suffer from it just as much as anyone.

Real love is a thing that should be given freely and without conditions or limitations. But at the same time I can respect anyone's decision to monogamy, and I think at this point in my life, I am intimidated by the idea of polygamy. But it (monogamy) does not feel right to me


--------------------


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: monogamy [Re: Shroomism]
    #3990793 - 03/30/05 04:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Monogamy, polygamy, free love...they're all part of the human experience. Some people are more inclined towards one than the other. Personally, I'm more in the monogamy camp. The closest thing to polygamy or free love I could see myself doing would be a threesome where I was in love with at least one of the two girls involved.


--------------------


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: monogamy [Re: Shroomism]
    #3990821 - 03/30/05 04:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I think monogamy is an unnattural thing that is ingrained in our mass consciousness from thousands of years of conditioning by religion. I think that it leads to, and is caused by, jealousy.. insecurity, and I think that I suffer from it just as much as anyone.

Real love is a thing that should be given freely and without conditions or limitations. But at the same time I can respect anyone's decision to monogamy, and I think at this point in my life, I am intimidated by the idea of polygamy. But it (monogamy) does not feel right to me




That is not entierly true, the old testament supports poligamy.


I think both is fine as long as we all agree and as long as there is some kind of honor and love in marriage


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: monogamy [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3990875 - 03/30/05 04:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I think the problem isn't either monogamy or polygamy but other things like dishonesty. Like you said, honor and love should be there.. above all I think. And in the right situation I can see multiple-marriages working perfectly. It's only uncomfortable to me personally because I am not accustomed to it. But 1/2 of "marriages" in the U.S. end in divorce.. so obviously something does not work.

Really I think the whole thing stems from our own insecurities.. everyone wants to be loved but who wants to be hurt? If everyone was open, communicated, was accepting and loving and honored one another.. these kinds of things could be easily transcended.


--------------------


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: monogamy [Re: Shroomism]
    #3991096 - 03/30/05 05:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you speak with great wisdom, as usual!!!


good to see you're out of jail btw. I prayed for you while you were in there.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: monogamy [Re: Shroomism]
    #3991150 - 03/30/05 05:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I think monogamy is an unnattural thing that is ingrained in our mass consciousness from thousands of years of conditioning by religion. I think that it leads to, and is caused by, jealousy.. insecurity, and I think that I suffer from it just as much as anyone.




This is the conclusion I have come to myself. Further I have found from experience that if you want a committed relationship to flourish you cannot ask your partner to be anything other than he/she is. If you have alot of security demands that have to be met before you can trust your partner, it most likely will not last.

My partner and I are free to act on any belief system we choose. I call that taking care of each other, or unconditionally respecting my beloved. It's not easy to want freedom for your partner. It takes a lot of unconditional loving.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: monogamy [Re: Icelander]
    #3991240 - 03/30/05 06:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

thing is, I think your theory about the whole 'religious programming' thing is flawed because it seems to me that poligamy is the rule and monogamy is the exception.  Religion has often tried to tell people to be monogamous, but how often to people REALLY take religion to heart and follow its commandments?  In my experience, rarely. 

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but I have always felt that when two people have a monogamous relationship, they are breaking the rules in the name of loving eachother.  It just has this romantic appeal to me.  Its like: 'Fuck the world, its just you and me sweetheart.'  Awww, that made me smile :smile: :heart:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: monogamy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3991533 - 03/30/05 07:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

That's just fine for you. It's when people start telling each other what is right and what is wrong that it becomes a problem.

I'm of the opinion that the more evolved spiritually you are the more people you can love sexually in a healthy way.

I am not evolved to that spiritual level so I stay with my one partner and it's exclusive. Not for a minute do I think one way is right or better than another. I don't know what goes on inside of other people and I have no idea what my level of enlightenment actually is.

I don't need anyone else to do according to my idea of truth or right or wrong. As long as I am left to do my thing that is more than enough. :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: monogamy [Re: Icelander]
    #3991542 - 03/30/05 07:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's just fine for you. It's when people start telling each other what is right and what is wrong that it becomes a problem.

I'm of the opinion that the more evolved spiritually you are the more people you can love sexually in a healthy way.

I am not evolved to that spiritual level so I stay with my one partner and it's exclusive. Not for a minute do I think one way is right or better than another. I don't know what goes on inside of other people and I have no idea what my level of enlightenment actually is.

I don't need anyone else to do according to my idea of truth or right or wrong. As long as I am left to do my thing that is more than enough. :smile:




:thumbup:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: monogamy [Re: Icelander]
    #3991566 - 03/30/05 07:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't need anyone else to do according to my idea of truth or right or wrong. As long as I am left to do my thing that is more than enough. :smile:




w3rd


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: monogamy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3991584 - 03/30/05 07:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Why any self respecting man who values his sanity would want more than one wife is beyond me. The men best equipped for polygamy in this society are deaf, wealthy, slow to anger and adept at the art of ignoring.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineGomp
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Re: monogamy [Re: Autonomous]
    #3991609 - 03/30/05 07:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

why would you want to by two pair of socks, when you only 'need' one pair? :wink:


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: monogamy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3991858 - 03/30/05 08:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

if a person wants to be in a relationship that good for them. 

I can only come from my experience, but I found "that one" and really I have no other desire for another. 

relationship is just a label for us to hold onto and identify with.

I don't have to be in a relationship, that's not the point.  the point is enjoying the company of your partner.  whatever sexual issues they may have would be worked out through communication.

people have to contemplate about love, which is kind of odd to me.  I feel that if you are in love, then there's no questioning it since your partner would be the answer :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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