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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Are relationships selfish?
    #3026366 - 08/20/04 01:00 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I submit that they are. If they weren't, we would not actively seek them out, and would not be hurt when the other person decides to break it off. Sure, you may feel like you care about your partner's feelings, but for the most part, isn't this mainly because you want to keep them happy enough to stay with you? Now, I would like to clarify that I do not think love is selfish. Loving someone in and of itself means you have a genuine concern for them and their well-being. But the desire to be with them is entirely selfish. Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026389 - 08/20/04 01:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Monogamous relationships are very selfish in nature.

You're surprising me here, my opinion of you has been changing for the better a lot lately.

That's quite honest of you to make that statement.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3026400 - 08/20/04 01:11 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Ya, I have to say I've been surprised by some of your posts lately. I guess that one trip you had really did change you.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleladychemist84
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026407 - 08/20/04 01:12 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I do not agree with you. Relationships are completely based on giving. Trust, vulnerability, respect and attention, all those things significant in relationships are all based on giving. Just because you want someone to want or love you doesn't make you selfish. It yells out lonliness. If your in a relationship only to comfort your lonliness yet your still not happy, then thats when it becomes selfish.
That's just my thoughts on the matter.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: ladychemist84]
    #3026428 - 08/20/04 01:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ladychemist84 said:
Relationships are completely based on giving.



Maybe so, but to what end? You give so the person will want to stay with you.

Quote:

Just because you want someone to want or love you doesn't make you selfish. It yells out lonliness.



Loneliness is a selfish desire for attention.

Quote:

If your in a relationship only to comfort your lonliness yet your still not happy, then thats when it becomes selfish.



No, it becomes selfish as soon as you demand any fidelity, attention, or affection from your partner.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026442 - 08/20/04 01:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I dont think a relationship is inherently anything. It is what the parties involved make it.

I prefer not to think of relationships as inherently selfish because I think its just a rationalization for making them so. A relationship can be completely unselfish if the parties involved make it that way, and part of being able to do that is believing it can happen.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026451 - 08/20/04 01:21 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

  :thumbup: I realized quite recently that some things that I thought mattered actually do not, and some things I used to take for granted matter quite greatly.

ladychemist:

Taking another human being and considering them your personal property, and imprisoning their sexual light from the rest of the world is extremely selfish.

Monogamy is actually one of the most sinister forms of selfishness ever devised.

think outside the norm for a minute and try to look at things as if you are an observer from another world and you'll see what i mean.


--------------------
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3026460 - 08/20/04 01:23 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with you J, take a good family for instance. Two couples... copulate... to make children... If they are good parents, they will be there for their children, and they will form a bond as to raise their kids well.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #3026466 - 08/20/04 01:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Or the children could just become part of the tribe. :lol:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3026474 - 08/20/04 01:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

tribe?


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #3026510 - 08/20/04 01:34 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, the tribe. Wouldn't things be a lot simpler if there were tribal unity?

I'm just not into the whole molded existance thing. That is what creates all the confusion in the first place.

Big brother is no one's brother.

Imagine an entire world that is all one big family. The best way to get there would be to start with going back to tribal living.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3026571 - 08/20/04 01:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well if im going to dig into your past thoughts, im going to assume that this is the conclusion you came to.

You either think that how i refer to the "nuclear" family is bullshit, and that it only keeps seperate families, seperate.

Even if im wrong in assuming why you came to that conclusion, it wouldnt make a difference. Moving on.

A big happy family would be nice. BUt the sad part is, people who have kids cant take care of them, and neither can the adoption agencies (usually) who give their kids away.

Were not gonna have some nice tribe again till people can start doing there part. Thats what makes a tribe.

I see a world of couples who cant take care of their offspring, of men who cant seem to "deserve circumcision", catch my drift?

I think levels of intimacy are only possible by two people, this makes dealing with offspring much easier.

Besides, i consider my friends my family, my tribe, I even consider some people here at these boards, "my tribesman of the wood"... dont take that the wrong way now!!  :grin:


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Invisibleladychemist84
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3026580 - 08/20/04 01:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:



Taking another human being and considering them your personal property, and imprisoning their sexual light from the rest of the world is extremely selfish.

Monogamy is actually one of the most sinister forms of selfishness ever devised.

think outside the norm for a minute and try to look at things as if you are an observer from another world and you'll see what i mean.





You must not be in a happy relationship. If your not ready for monogomy, then why be in a relationship? That's the point isn't it? Being happy, with one person. Having a family, having a lifetime friend and lover. If that's selfish, then I'm one selfish bitch.

Besides, your viewing it from a sexual point of view. Consider the other aspects of it.

Think outside of the sex, and then explain why relationships are selfish.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: ladychemist84]
    #3026590 - 08/20/04 01:53 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You must not be in a happy relationship. If your not ready for monogomy, then why be in a relationship? That's the point isn't it? Being happy, with one person. Having a family, having a lifetime friend and lover. If that's selfish, then I'm one selfish bitch.



As long as you can admit it. Don't get me wrong--I very much long to be in a relationship with someone, but I also recognize that that is a selfish desire, and I'm willing to live with that.

Quote:

Besides, your viewing it from a sexual point of view. Consider the other aspects of it.

Think outside of the sex, and then explain why relationships are selfish.



Sex is a big part of relationships. If you tell someone they can't have sex with anyone else besides you, how is that not selfish?


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: ladychemist84]
    #3026609 - 08/20/04 01:57 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well, "relationship" can mean anything. I have a good "relationship" with my cat.

I guess I got off topic, because i was speaking of "monogamous sexual relationships".

And yes, those are selfish as hell. But it's the way most people are brainwashed into thinkng, so I'm not gonna try to offend anyone by arguing the point to much.

I want an egoless world where everyone fucks whoever they choose.

My bad.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026626 - 08/20/04 01:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

have you ever been sexually active with two women at once (not a menage trois, but separately)?

it made me feel both guilty and selfish, much moreso than any monogamous relationship I've been in.


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3026627 - 08/20/04 01:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yay!! Aids!!!  :laugh:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3026636 - 08/20/04 02:01 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
have you ever been sexually active with two women at once (not a menage trois, but separately)?

it made me feel both guilty and selfish, much moreso than any monogamous relationship I've been in.



No, can't say I have.


--------------------


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026666 - 08/20/04 02:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

this is what I think:

many people have hardwired emotional mechanisms that make polyamoury very difficult for them to accept. These human beings tend to seek eachother out because they share this common acknowledgement of their own weakness, if you want to call it that. Really I dont think its a weakness, just a difference.

Some people don't have this inhibition, and I say more power to them. But I tend to not get involved with people like that, because I know where I'll end up emotionally if I do.

Personally I've seen a lot of evidence that monogamy is a beneficial evolutionary mechanism. I think i've already mentioned the mountain voles versus the prairie voles arguement before in this forum.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3026683 - 08/20/04 02:12 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, I don't doubt that monogamy is helpful to our evolution, but that doesn't make it any less selfish, unless of course you're just doing it for the survival of the species.


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