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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026686 -


Quote:
silversoul7

Quote:
I said:
You must not be in a happy relationship. If your not readyfor monogomy, then why be in a relationship? That's the point isn't it? Being happy, with one person. Having a family, having a lifetime friend and lover. If that's selfish, then I'm one selfish bitch.




As long as you can admit it. Don't get me wrong--I very much long to be in a relationship with someone, but I also recognize that that is a selfish desire, and I'm willing to live with that.
 



If you continue to believe that's a selfish desire, how is that going to affect your partner? If your wanting a serious relationship, that takes giving. Giving yourself mind body and soul. Explain to me what changes in a relationship when YOU decide you don't feel like being selfish anymore? Do you allow your partner to go out and screw other guys? I mean..that's not a selfish act on your part. But your partner's out there getting there groove on with another knowing your at home waiting. Who's the selfish one then? Of course sex is a big deal in a relationship, but it's not the most important.
A relationship allows you to be open and honest and comfortable enough to share your thoughts and feelings. In turn allows a relationship to build on love and respect. That is complete giving of yourself.  :heart:

Edited by ladychemist84 (08/20/04 12:21 AM)

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026705 -

oopsi, I edited that post wrong. Didn't mean for it to look all screwed up like that. But you get the point!!


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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026720 -

I'm sure a few of you may have already read my views on monogomy, which I detest. Monogamous sexual relationships are rooted in selfishness, jealousy and fear (of loneliness). Unfortunately, this is the way the majority of people think things must be.

In a Buddhist sense, any desire is inherently selfish, as the desire stems from the self or 'I.' The sense of 'selfness' is an illusion maintained by the ego which results in many types of fear, including loneliness.

A relationship NOT based on selfishness would be one where two people enjoy each other's company but also allow each other to do whatever they like and accept whatever that is. Try telling that to the average person who would be horrified to find their partner sleeping with someone else.  :rolleyes:

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: ladychemist84]
    #3026723 -

Quote:
ladychemist84 said:
If you continue to believe that's a selfish desire, how is that going to affect your partner?


If she's mature enough, hopefully she'll understand.

Quote:
If your wanting a serious relationship, that takes giving. Giving yourself mind body and soul.


Yes, I've been in relationships before, and there was all of that.  But underlying all that was one irrefutable fact:  I wanted to be with that person.

Quote:
Explain to me what changes in a relationship when YOU decide you don't feel like being selfish anymore? Do you allow your partner to go out and screw other guys?


I can only hope that I can be so selfless as to do just that.  But I fear I am too jealous to actually do that.

Quote:
Of course sex is a big deal in a relationship, but it's not the most important.
A relationship allows you to be open and honest and comfortable enough to share your thoughts and feelings. In turn allows a relationship to build on love and respect. That is complete giving of yourself.  :heart:


Don't lecture me about giving.  I've experienced love of the highest order.  Our relationship ended long ago, but I still love her.  She told me a while back that she was with another guy, and I accepted that and embraced it, because she seemed happy.  True love is taking yourself completely out of the picture, where it is only the other person that matters.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026769 -

Quote:
Don't lecture me about giving. I've experienced love of the highest order. Our relationship ended long ago, but I still love her. She told me a while back that she was with another guy, and I accepted that and embraced it, because she seemed happy.




Sorry, I wasn't lecturing. I was giving my opinion.

Quote:
True love is taking yourself completely out of the picture, where it is only the other person that matters.



You said it my friend...that is a completely unselfish act!!! Thank You!


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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: ladychemist84]
    #3026775 -

ladychemist84 said:
Quote:
True love is taking yourself completely out of the picture, where it is only the other person that matters.



You said it my friend...that is a completely unselfish act!!! Thank You!


And do you not see how this is incompatible with monogamy?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026811 -

Of course it isn't! I guess you said it earlier, love isn't a selfish act. You've obviously loved enough to make another happy. I can't say it enough how unselfish that is. Sometimes, in relationships, that's what you must do. Now your alone knowing your love is with another. That's hard to do. That is true love. That is giving.

Your obviously not together anymore so where should compatibilty fit in here.


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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: ladychemist84]
    #3026818 -

Again, answer my question: How is it not selfish to forbid someone else from sleeping with anyone they choose? If we only care about the other's happiness, then it would naturally follow that we allow them to do whatever makes them happy, even if that includes sleeping with other people.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3026868 -

Forbidding someone from sleeping with anyone they choose can be selfish IF your not in a relationship with them. If you are, then that's not selfish at all, that's love! IMHO, I think sometimes relationships can be selfish, depending on what type of relationship your in. If your in an open relationship, then there's an opportunity to be as selfish as you wanna be. If your in a committed and loving relationship where there's mutual respect and trust, then there's no room for selfishness.

We are still on that topic here right?


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3026998 -

Desiree said:
Forbidding someone from sleeping with anyone they choose can be selfish IF your not in a relationship with them. If you are, then that's not selfish at all, that's love!


Pardon my rudeness, but what a load of bullshit. Love is wanting the other person to be happy, not restricting them from being with others.

Quote:
IMHO, I think sometimes relationships can be selfish, depending on what type of relationship your in. If your in an open relationship, then there's an opportunity to be as selfish as you wanna be.


Or to be completely selfless. If you can let the one you love sleep with other people, that is selfless devotion.

Quote:
If your in a committed and loving relationship where there's mutual respect and trust, then there's no room for selfishness.


No, it requires selfishness. Sure, you have to be unselfish enough to not sleep with other people because your partner doesn't want you to, but you also have to be selfish enough to demand that they do the same.

Basically, you have four options:

a. Stay out of relationships
b. Be in an open relationship where you don't prohibit your partner from doing anything with other people
c. Admit to yourself that you are a human being with flaws, and are either unable or unwilling to give up your selfish desires
d. Continue to live in denial and believe that your desire to be with someone is anything other than selfish


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3027057 -

although it could be seen as emotionally selfish for me to desire commitment, from my emotional position it seems selfish for a woman to want to share that level of intimacy with me and yet still be with other guys. Because I am a human being, and no amount of enlightenment is going to keep me from being jealous. I can use logic to run from this reality all I want, but I think thats escapism, and ultimately it wont work.

Honestly I think people who expect a certain amount of intimacy without commitment are selfish because they are ignoring the emotions of all the people they are involved with. These people are having their cake and eating it too, at the emotional expense of others.

Also, a word about commitment: I believe that commitment is the basis of society. We have only been able to accomplish such grand endeavors as a race because we accept a certain amount of commitment to eachother as fellow beings. If you want to live in a world without commitment, you should go live in the wilderness and do everything yourself. But even then you would still be living with commitment because in order to survive in such an endeavor you would have to be committed to yourself.

Imagine if one day I were to decide to build a car. But then halfway through that, I get bored and decide to build a boat. But then building the boat gets old, so I decide to build a house... and so on and so on until what I end up with is a bunch of time wasted on half-finished projects. You cant build anything substantial without commitment and follow through. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices and endure a litlle pain in order to create something beautiful, and thats what committed relationships are all about. Too many people start projects they dont finish, and in the end make no emotional progress. Instead of seeing a singular vision through, they become distracted and end up with a bunch of scars and emotuional baggage from the unfinished business of relationships that failed because they were given up on.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3027325 -

Quote:
Basically, you have four options:

a. Stay out of relationships
b. Be in an open relationship where you don't prohibit your partner from doing anything with other people
c. Admit to yourself that you are a human being with flaws, and are either unable or unwilling to give up your selfish desires
d. Continue to live in denial and believe that your desire to be with someone is anything other than selfish




I think that's so wrong.

I love the thought of having one man for the rest of my life. Period.
The thought of committing myself completely to just one man in one relationship, is absolutely amazing!
I couldn't imagine it any other way. Hmm, maybe you haven't really loved. Or you'd understand the difference between being selfish and being unselfish in a real relationship. My thoughts have been expressed. I really hope that you find someone who'll make you happy enough to understand the real meaning of unselfishness. I'm done here.


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3027397 -

Disillusionment. Remove the blindfolds to see everyone else is blindfolded. You've got it right, ss7.

Yes, relationships are very selfish in nature. Some people wont understand it this way, because it makes them happy to be with someone else. Its a romantic dependancy kind of thing. All movies, literature, magazines, society, pretty much everything exploit this image and it has been ingrained in our heads, understandably.

How can I prove this? Quite easily, really. Look at the marriage and divorce rates in the US. Boy we americans sure lack dedication to committment, eh? But, then again, why feel obliged to stay in something forever that you really dont want to? So then why marry in the first place? All these answers point to selfishness.

Then there is true love. I've heard it exists, although, I've never been convinced. Usually true love is when a guy sees a really hot chick and doesnt want to stop banging her... I've been fooled before :smile:


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3027507 -

If a person will leave a relationship because it was "bad" then yes it is selfish, no?

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3027778 -

Desiree said:
Quote:
Basically, you have four options:

a. Stay out of relationships
b. Be in an open relationship where you don't prohibit your partner from doing anything with other people
c. Admit to yourself that you are a human being with flaws, and are either unable or unwilling to give up your selfish desires
d. Continue to live in denial and believe that your desire to be with someone is anything other than selfish




I think that's so wrong.

I love the thought of having one man for the rest of my life. Period.


And I'm sure you would be more than happy to restrict him from seeing other women, right?

Quote:
The thought of committing myself completely to just one man in one relationship, is absolutely amazing!


Oh, I understand.  I personally could easily see myself devoting myself entirely to one woman.  But to demand the same of her would be selfish.

Quote:
I couldn't imagine it any other way. Hmm, maybe you haven't really loved. Or you'd understand the difference between being selfish and being unselfish in a real relationship.


I believe it is you who have not truly loved.  I have loved more deeply than you can imagine.  As I said before, true love involves taking yourself completely out the equation, and desiring only the other's happiness, even if it involves ending the relationship.

Quote:
My thoughts have been expressed. I really hope that you find someone who'll make you happy enough to understand the real meaning of unselfishness. I'm done here.


:lol:  I pity you for not knowing what true unselfishness is.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028005 -

how is it selfish to ask someone for the same thing you are willing to give them? I could see how it would be selfish to ask someone for commitment if I wasnt committed to them. But if its a mutual exchange of my commitment for theirs, how is that selfish?

My love is an exclusive contract. I dont see how that is any more selfish than a landlord asking someone to sign a lease agreement.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3028022 -

If they are willing to voluntarily stay faithful to you, then that's fine. But if you demand it of them, I think that is a bit restrictive. True love is unconditional, and if you truly love someone, then you will love them regardless of whether or not they remain exclusive to you. Love is not a contract. It is a gift, and it is given unconditionally.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028044 -

yeah but if someone truly loved you, why would they put you through the emotional pain of being with someone else?

Faithfulness isnt a demand, its just something people do for eachother when they respect eachother's feelings. I dont think love can exist if the parties involved dont respect eachother's feelings.

I understand the whole 'unconditional love' thing, believe me. There is one girl in particular I will always love despite the many things she has done to hurt me. But its not really that simple or logical. Because the love is unrequited, there is pain there. And anger. Do I truly love her? Absolutely. I would take a bullet for her. But even though I truly love her unconditionally, there is still a lot of bitterness and resentment. These matters are not as clean cut and simple as you or I would like them to be.

the bottom line is, all I want out of a girl is a person who is capable of matching what i have to bring to the table. And that includes commitment. No, I dont think thats selfish at all, because I'm willing to do the exact same for her, whoever she may be.

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3028062 -

DoctorJ said:
yeah but if someone truly loved you, why would they put you through the emotional pain of being with someone else?


This isn't about whether the other person loves you or not. If you love them, then you will let them do what makes them happy.

Quote:
Faithfulness isnt a demand, its just something people do for eachother when they respect eachother's feelings. I dont think love can exist if the parties involved dont respect eachother's feelings.


I understand, and I personally would never cheat on someone I loved. But if I loved them, I would not make such demands on them.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Are relationships selfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3028076 -

faithfulness isnt a demand you make on someone else, its a demand you make on yourself:

"I'm going to be faithful to this person because I love them. If they disrespect my feelings by not doing the same, then its obvious they dont love me, and its time to move on. I may still love that person for the rest of my life, but I cant be with someone who makes me feel like shit. I owe that to myself."

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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