budmanman said:

Enlil said:

We definitely should.  People should be free to come and go as they please.  As long as they abide by the law here when they are here, everyone is welcome.

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Euro countries should do this too so I can go there in and out freely without vetting and tracking so I can jack the ripper 2.0.

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AlChemicalResearch said:

Enlil said:

No.  You quoted a law that you either didn't read, didn't understand, or simply wanted to misrepresent.  It is not a criminal offense to be in the united states illegally.

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it is a misdemeanor to

• Enter or attempt to enter the United States at any time or place other than designated by immigration officers;
  
  
• Elude examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
  
• Attempt to enter or obtain entry to the United States by willfully concealing, falsifying, or misrepresenting material facts.
  

So if you come on vacation and happen to stay a few days extra. Not a misdemeanor. If you come through a legal port of entry, then set up a life where you are working, raising a family, paying taxes, yadayadayada that is a misdemeanor. You willfully falsified your intent to leave after a certain date. If ICE agents attempt to detain you and you try to elude them, that is a misdemeanor if you are an undocumented immigrant. If you hopped the border and make it 5 years without being caught, but then you are caught, that is a misdemeanor. No one would call someone who stayed a few days extra on vacation an undocumented immigrant. The literal word "immigrant" is what makes it a misdemeanor. A traveler is not an immigrant. Someone who leaves their home country to permanently settle in another place is an immigrant. If you gained entry, even through a legal port, they wouldn't let you in as an IMMIGRANT without the proper paper work. If you got through, you concealed, falsified, or misrepresented facts. Which makes it a MISDEMEANOR.

You sir, are just wrong.


But ok, if you're like smuggled into the USA against your will, and you are undocumented, that probably isn't criminal, just a civil offense. I guess you're right on that point.

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AlChemicalResearch said:

Enlil said:

No.  You quoted a law that you either didn't read, didn't understand, or simply wanted to misrepresent.  It is not a criminal offense to be in the united states illegally.

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it is a misdemeanor to

• Enter or attempt to enter the United States at any time or place other than designated by immigration officers;
  
  
• Elude examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
  
• Attempt to enter or obtain entry to the United States by willfully concealing, falsifying, or misrepresenting material facts.
  

So if you come on vacation and happen to stay a few days extra. Not a misdemeanor. If you come through a legal port of entry, then set up a life where you are working, raising a family, paying taxes, yadayadayada that is a misdemeanor. You willfully falsified your intent to leave after a certain date. If ICE agents attempt to detain you and you try to elude them, that is a misdemeanor if you are an undocumented immigrant. If you hopped the border and make it 5 years without being caught, but then you are caught, that is a misdemeanor. No one would call someone who stayed a few days extra on vacation an undocumented immigrant. The literal word "immigrant" is what makes it a misdemeanor. A traveler is not an immigrant. Someone who leaves their home country to permanently settle in another place is an immigrant. If you gained entry, even through a legal port, they wouldn't let you in as an IMMIGRANT without the proper paper work. If you got through, you concealed, falsified, or misrepresented facts. Which makes it a MISDEMEANOR.

You sir, are just wrong.


But ok, if you're like smuggled into the USA against your will, and you are undocumented, that probably isn't criminal, just a civil offense. I guess you're right on that point.

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Enlil said:

No.  You quoted a law that you either didn't read, didn't understand, or simply wanted to misrepresent.  It is not a criminal offense to be in the united states illegally.

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dinosaurs said:

AlChemicalResearch said:

Enlil said:

No.  You quoted a law that you either didn't read, didn't understand, or simply wanted to misrepresent.  It is not a criminal offense to be in the united states illegally.

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it is a misdemeanor to

• Enter or attempt to enter the United States at any time or place other than designated by immigration officers;
  
  
• Elude examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
  
• Attempt to enter or obtain entry to the United States by willfully concealing, falsifying, or misrepresenting material facts.
  

So if you come on vacation and happen to stay a few days extra. Not a misdemeanor. If you come through a legal port of entry, then set up a life where you are working, raising a family, paying taxes, yadayadayada that is a misdemeanor. You willfully falsified your intent to leave after a certain date. If ICE agents attempt to detain you and you try to elude them, that is a misdemeanor if you are an undocumented immigrant. If you hopped the border and make it 5 years without being caught, but then you are caught, that is a misdemeanor. No one would call someone who stayed a few days extra on vacation an undocumented immigrant. The literal word "immigrant" is what makes it a misdemeanor. A traveler is not an immigrant. Someone who leaves their home country to permanently settle in another place is an immigrant. If you gained entry, even through a legal port, they wouldn't let you in as an IMMIGRANT without the proper paper work. If you got through, you concealed, falsified, or misrepresented facts. Which makes it a MISDEMEANOR.

You sir, are just wrong.


But ok, if you're like smuggled into the USA against your will, and you are undocumented, that probably isn't criminal, just a civil offense. I guess you're right on that point.

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this is very simple:

the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the USA are people that came here 100% legally and overstayed.  those people are potentially guilty of a civil infraction as they have no legal immigration status.  if they snuck across the border, thereby entering illegally, they are potentially guilty of a criminal misdemeanor.  why potentially?  because due process is a thing (or was before MAGA fascists took over immigration enforcement).

instead of running to google/AI to think for you, try using your meat computer and actually reading/comprehending whats being presented to you in the discussion you're taking part in.

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Holybullshit said:

Or they "intended" to renew their visa or pursue some other form of proper documentation and legal residency or intended to leave but their circumstances changed or they simply changed their mind.

Regardless, they are entitled to due process, and I think you'd have a helluva time proving your accusations in court.

What precedent are you basing your argument on?

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Psilynut2 said:

Quote:

No, dude. It's a crime.

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  What would you call my pics ?

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AlChemicalResearch said:

Holybullshit said:

Or they "intended" to renew their visa or pursue some other form of proper documentation and legal residency or intended to leave but their circumstances changed or they simply changed their mind.

Regardless, they are entitled to due process, and I think you'd have a helluva time proving your accusations in court.

What precedent are you basing your argument on?

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so you need a precedent to enforce the law? you dont just need the law?

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Enlil said:

AlChemicalResearch said:

Holybullshit said:

Or they "intended" to renew their visa or pursue some other form of proper documentation and legal residency or intended to leave but their circumstances changed or they simply changed their mind.

Regardless, they are entitled to due process, and I think you'd have a helluva time proving your accusations in court.

What precedent are you basing your argument on?

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so you need a precedent to enforce the law? you dont just need the law?

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If no one has been prosecuted criminally under your wacky theory, that's a pretty good sign that your theory is bunk.

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lowbrow said:

Enlil said:

No.  You quoted a law that you either didn't read, didn't understand, or simply wanted to misrepresent.  It is not a criminal offense to be in the united states illegally.

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Now you're just splitting hairs.  This stinks of (dare I say) sophism.

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feevers said:

Being a Nickelback fan is a crime

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Enlil said:

How is that in any way relevant to your original claim which was "being an undocumented immigrant is a crime in and of itself?"

Can you defend THAT statement?  Because what you're doing now is talking about lying on a visa application, which is not "being an undocumented immigrant."  Stealing a candy bar on your way to a cock fight while being an undocumented immigrant is a crime, too, but the undocumented immigrant part of it is irrelevant. What does "in and of itself" mean to you?

Do you have even the slightest inkling of the difference between what you claimed and what you're talking about now?  Or is this some sort of diversion bullshit you learned as a coping mechanism?  Everyone in here is saying the exact same thing:  You're wrong about your ORIGINAL CLAIM. 


Either defend THAT CLAIM or admit that you are wrong.

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gww said:

Being an undocumented immigrant is a civil offence.

AI
Criminal law is not based on reasonable chance.

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Illegally entering the country is a federal criminal offense.  Softening the language doesnt change that

Theyre called illegal aliens.