SARAtonin said:

I’ve already stated multiple times I think Bibi and his blood rabid jackals are a generational curse on Israel. I hate them probably more than you all do.

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So don’t try and make me out to be one of them just because I refuse to sell my family and people down the drain to fit in with a bunch of idiots in the internet (no on in this thread or this site obviously, we are all very smart and reasonable individuals who post here) who have spent their whole lives waiting to be able to spout disgusting nonsense about Jews and act the hero while doing so.

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So ya, Bibi sucks and Israel is in a very dark path right now but Bibi does not define me, my family, or my people no more than Drumpf defines the millions of kind, compassionate, and empathy drive individuals in America who want nothing to do with him.

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SARAtonin said:

I don’t understand how you can recognize it’s wrong to generalize all Palestinians but somehow think it’s totally okay to generalize all Israelis because of some polls and 3rd hand accounts you found on Qatari state financed Al Jazeera.

If you want to know what actually Israelis are like, then come to Israeli and talk to actual Israelis. Get your own first hand account. I have places in Tel Aviv I could set you up for a week or two for free. (I won’t be back to Israel until some time next year after the twins are born)

Everyone I know and interact with in Israel from immediate family, to extended family, from close friends to friends of those friends; guess what, they all hate Bibi and this government. And sure I might be an outlier, I live in glass bubbles and basically all my friends in Israel I have met through the kink scene, the drug scene, the psytrance scene, or gay scene BUT that is the Israel I know, and those were the people who were raped, murdered and kidnapped on Oct7, hippie kids at a music festival, not bootlickers.

I won’t pretend for a second to know much of anything about right handed path theology or whatever you’re referencing, but no one I know wants any of this. As someone who has spent actual time living in Israel, we teach life, sir.

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At least six other incidents of people directly witnessing rapes and gang rapes are outlined in the report, with all of the witnesses describing victims being shot dead. In one case, a witness said she saw a young woman being raped by several men, mutilated and shot dead.

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farmer88 said:

I had a Jewish school mate who turned into a rabid zionist. He was ultra "If you are against Israel then you are an antisemite" before that was a thing. A master at it. I refused to engage.

Kinda fortunate that he died before the genocide really started because I would have had to end the long friendship ... by telling him to go fuck himself.

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Enlil said:

So, you don't think statements of the victims themselves is enough to credibly prove rape?  What is it going to take?  Video?

At least 10 victims have given testimony, dude.

https://www.cnn.com/2026/05/12/middleeast/report-sexual-violence-hamas-oct-7-attacks-intl

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At least six other incidents of people directly witnessing rapes and gang rapes are outlined in the report, with all of the witnesses describing victims being shot dead. In one case, a witness said she saw a young woman being raped by several men, mutilated and shot dead.

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That CNN article could very well be your most pathetic attempt at being contrarian yet, quite an accomplishment 👍
10 victims did not give testimony on being raped, follow the links, one guy was whining about being tied up naked, certainly not nice, but definitely not a serious sexual assault.









Also if you used your lawyerly skills to your full capacity you’d probably be able to work out that according to that report, the attack on the festival began at 8am, which contradicts the report from Hebrew newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth(fighting began a half hour earlier) and the first pair of Apache helicopters arrived at 8.30am even though they didn’t begin firing until around 9am. A total of 28 Apaches arrived in the area.

Hamas fighters were instructed to blend into the crowd.

Yet you’re ready to believe they had their dicks out gang banging festival goers while a friggen armada of helicopters were either above them or on their way.

Also, I had a browse through the 298 pages of that Israeli report and gee, not a single photo of any mutilated bodies, nothing, nada, but plenty of photos of teddy bears, children’s bicycles and other fluffy crap to tug at people’s heart strings.

For god’s sake, do better 👎

SARAtonin said:

Look dude, it’s a tragedy, no one sane can deny that.

But I’m not going to sit here with you or anyone and debate definitions until I say the exact right words to earn the collective grace of being seen as a “good Jew.” That’s incredibly obnoxious and in very bad faith and I will not engage in it.

If that isn’t good enough for you, then so be it.

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shivas.wisdom said:

SARAtonin said:

Yes, I have spent time in occupied West Bank around Palestinians. I have nothing but love for Palestinians, they are my cousins after all. I have also donated to multiple verified organizations where the money actually goes to actually helping Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza both, rather than like 90% of the things people donate to that just goes directly to Hamas. I have always advocated a two state solution and I want Hamas removed just as much for the safety of Israelis as I do for the freedom of Palestinians.

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After spending time in the West Bank, was your major takeaway "I want Hamas removed just as much for the safety of Israelis as I do for the freedom of Palestinians"

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SARAtonin said:

I’ve already stated multiple times I think Bibi and his blood rabid jackals are a generational curse on Israel. I hate them probably more than you all do.

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SARAtonin said:

I don’t understand how you can recognize it’s wrong to generalize all Palestinians but somehow think it’s totally okay to generalize all Israelis because of some polls and 3rd hand accounts you found on Qatari state financed Al Jazeera.

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I just want to say that the questions (as in tbe image below) I asked in my previous post to you were not rhetorical. I asked them, because I am legitimately trying to parse out where you stand, individually, because I do not lump all of you together...



By the way, while I do like Al Jazeera just fine, the polling data that I have seen is from Haaretz (I can dig it up, if you like), though my perspective is also informed by interviews I have seen with Israeli people.

I can't think of a single interview that I have seen, where the Israeli interviewee didn't generally come off the way this woman does:

When this is all I see from yall, and you're government is committing genocide, what do you expect people to think?

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Everyone I know and interact with in Israel from immediate family, to extended family, from close friends to friends of those friends; guess what, they all hate Bibi and this government.

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And sure I might be an outlier, I live in glass bubbles and basically all my friends in Israel I have met through the kink scene, the drug scene, the psytrance scene, or gay scene BUT that is the Israel I know, and those were the people who were raped, murdered and kidnapped on Oct7, hippie kids at a music festival, not bootlickers.

I won’t pretend for a second to know much of anything about right handed path theology or whatever you’re referencing, but no one I know wants any of this. As someone who has spent actual time living in Israel, we teach life, sir.

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SARAtonin said:

Look dude, it’s a tragedy, no one sane can deny that.

But I’m not going to sit here with you or anyone and debate definitions until I say the exact right words to earn the collective grace of being seen as a “good Jew.” That’s incredibly obnoxious and in very bad faith and I will not engage in it.

If that isn’t good enough for you, then so be it.

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shivas.wisdom said:

It's not a debate over definitions -- it's about acknowledging the international consensus across dozens of expert organizations, including respected Israeli human rights group B'Tselem: https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide -- by reducing the unique social and political context of genocide to mere 'tragedy', by not acknowledging the apartheid and ethnic cleansing at its core, how can we expect to act appropriately?

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SARAtonin said:

Yes, I have spent time in occupied West Bank around Palestinians. I have nothing but love for Palestinians, they are my cousins after all. I have also donated to multiple verified organizations where the money actually goes to actually helping Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza both,

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...rather than like 90% of the things people donate to that just goes directly to Hamas. I have always advocated a two state solution and I want Hamas removed just as much for the safety of Israelis as I do for the freedom of Palestinians.

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