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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
The Mahatma OfZalu

Registered: 05/24/02
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1519003 - 05/04/03 07:52 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i say fuck religion! then stop segregation based on it.


--------------------
Mice have feelings


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1519126 - 05/04/03 11:19 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Go research this before you make statements like that.

I've said what I've had to say.

When you hear something about when Israel does something that the Media exagerates then go look at the Jerusalem Post to see what they say. You'll see all the Jews that were killed instead of the Muslims.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Edited by Cracka_X (05/04/03 11:22 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1519135 - 05/04/03 11:24 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

yep, that damn anti-semite media  :smirk:


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1519184 - 05/04/03 12:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Part of the solution would be to get rid of the leader of the Palestinians, Arafat, who has been a terrorist for the last 25 years. The leader corrupts the entire Palestinian movement. He recieved a nobel peace prize 10 years ago(w/ Rabin), yet the whole time undermining the peace process and proceeding with the terrorism.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1519808 - 05/04/03 06:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'll agree with you that Arafat is completely irrelevent. But I think you'll find that the palestinians dont support him either. But who do you replace him with? The new Palestinian Prime Minister is even worse...

And research? What do you want me to research? I could post western media reports of exactly the things I've said happens. It happens ALL the time. Dont deify Israel.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1519953 - 05/04/03 07:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

They're trying to get rid of Arafat now but he won't stand down.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1520362 - 05/04/03 10:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Right. But who's better? I mean, you see the new PM. Nobody will listen to him either...hell, the extremists hate him.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineProdijal_Son
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Registered: 07/20/02
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Prodijal_Son]
    #1521434 - 05/05/03 10:49 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Here's the near finished product ... there are a couple of things I'm going to amend. Bon apetit.

Throughout history Judaism has been the samud salmon of assimilative flow. This non-submission did not grease well with the cogs of nationalism, whose remedy was the massacre, persecution, and dispossession of the Jewish people. Over time it became apparent that a homeland was necessary to serve as a sanctuary for the Jews. The rallying cry used in the early stages of Zionism brings to bear the essential conflict between Israel and Palestine. The slogan proposed that the lands of Palestine were ?? a land without people, for a people without land ...? despite the fact these lands were in fact already populated. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed after the First World War, the lands of Palestine came under the mandate of the British Empire. To garner support against the Ottoman Empire, Britain issued the Balfour Declaration stating that Britain would endorse the ambitions of the Zionists as reparation for their support. However, the British had also made a similar agreement to the indigenous people of Palestine. Initially, the Palestinians and the Zionist lived harmoniously, until the end of World War II when millions of Jews would seek Israel as a sanctuary from persecution. It is possible for the Israelis and Palestinians to live in unison again, as they once did before the great migration after the Second World War. Both sides must cooperate greatly to attain peace, but Israel and its supporters must make the first and last contributions.
The most important obstacle in the quest for peace is the issue of security for both Palestinians and Israelis alike. Both sides seem to agree that peace can only be discussed once the violence ceases, but differ as to who is the aggressor. To understand why brutal violence has become a necessity to resistance, one must understand the nature of power under which the Palestinians have been dominated. The method of direct or indirect colonization is clearly an indentifier to resulting oppositional violence. If one takes the example of India and Algeria, the level of involvement to which the occupying country resorted will explain the reactions of the occupied.
Britain?s involvement in India was one of indirect colonization. The occupation of India was strictly one of economic advantage, thus allowing Indians into the infrastructure of power lessened the number of British officers needed for occupation. British governmental and representative positions were offered, though not initially, to well-educated Indians, and the resulting coup was one of non-violence met with little incident of bloodshed.
France?s occupation of Algeria was one of cultural dominance and proliferation. The French forced the Algerians to abandon their culture and adopt that of the French, as this occupying power foresaw Algeria as a ?New France?. Algerians were allowed no part in government, and the French even went so far as to conduct false elections to temporarily appease the Algerians. The resulting revolution was one of unprecedented violence, which was unquestionably due to France?s attempts to convert the Algerians.
To understand the issue of violence between the Palestinians and Israelis one must consider the method of occupation that the Israelis have used. It is clear that Israel?s agenda of fragmentation and strangulation of the Palestinian state is greatly responsible for the degree of violence in Israel. Furthermore, the Palestinians have no control over their own fate, as their only representative is recognized neither by the governing power of Israel or the Palestinian people.
If peace is so truly desired by the Israeli government, then the first step is theirs to make, as they hold the lands to which the Palestinians hold claim. As was once decreed in the United Resolution 242, Israel must give back the West Bank and Gaza Strip to the Palestinians in order to move the wheels of peace. The most important step of the peace process is to allow the return of Palestinians to the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the removal of Israeli settlers in these lands.
There must be an organization of a Palestinian state before the notion of representation is to be considered. If the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are still to be included within in the perimeter of Israel, then the Palestinians must have credible representation in the government of Israel. This will be a difficult task in itself. The Palestinian people must be allowed to choose a leader to represent them.
Furthermore, taxes collected in these lands must be returned equally to the people from whom they are taken, which can be provided through social programs such as the building of new homes for Palestinian refugees, health institutions, or education.
Decreasing the economic disparity between Israel and Palestine is a mutually benefiting goal. The Palestinians currently play a decisive role in the economic stability of Israel, as they are the majority of Israel?s labor force. Though it is agreed that security of Israel is defined by the unflinching integrity of its borders, there must be revisions to the policies of movement between the new Palestinian states and Israel. Once a Palestinian state has been designed, Israel must allow Palestinians free movement across its borders. If peace is to prevail, then Palestine must have a means of survival. Allowing the Palestinians moderate free movement through Israel will provide this means, and violence should, in turn, decrease. Israel will benefit greatly from this, as it will no longer be necessary to spend so much on defensive measures.
Peace cannot simply be obtained by a partition between Palestinians and Israelis. As they once lived in the early 20th century in unison, they shall do so once again. Palestine and Israel must merge to form a unified state in which both sides have equal representation within the government.
Once the Palestinians have land to make their homes and raise their families, Israel must disengage in its many practices that break the concessions of the Geneva Conventions. These practices in question include collective punishment, in which the families of suspected criminals pay dearly for crimes that may or may not have been committed. Moreover, Palestinians can no longer be victim to ethnic profiling, or arrested on false charges. Backers of these practices may claim that these are necessary for ensuring the safety of Israel, but if Palestinians are allowed the aforementioned concessions, the safety of Israel will not be such a dire issue requiring the use of such questionable tactics. If a Palestinian is taken into custody, they are to be afforded the same rights of an Israeli taken into the law. If one is to claim that Palestinians are not citizens of Israel, thus the privileges of Israeli citizens do not extend to the Palestinian, this will be solved with the inclusion of Palestine and Israel in a unified state.
Israel is commonly seen in the Middle East as a colonial outpost, as it supports the United States in it undesired occupations in the Middle East, and is supported by the United States in its desire to crush the Palestinian people. American support, which amounts to 3 billion dollars a year, is largely returned to the US industry as arms purchasing. American support must not be stopped, as the reconstruction of the region will take large amounts of capital. But, this support must be redirected into specific social institutions for the Palestinians and Israelis, to help to ease the tension of creating a unified state.



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The times are good. The living is easy. The vibes are zingy.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Prodijal_Son]
    #1522347 - 05/05/03 06:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds good...
But then theres people like arablobster who are just waitin' till 50 to go and suicide bomb to uphold the tradition.

I think america needs to go over there and define who exactly the terrorists are.....just cus they're so good at it.


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1522703 - 05/05/03 08:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The palestinian people, yet another reason that the US deserves to be bombed by terrorists. *shakes head* Palestine never was a nation, the term was used first when Isreal was conquered by the Romans. they named them palestine in reference to the phillestines, an enemy of the Jews. Palestine is as much a nation as Rastafaria is. If all of these Arab nations wanted the Palestineans to have their own nation, theyd designate a plot of land in Saudi Arabia and give it to them. as usual, the Arabs just want to stir up more shit, and give their oppressed peoples a faceless "victim" for their oppression so the people won't see it's their own brutal dictators that are responsbile for their way of lives.


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Prodijal_Son]
    #1523361 - 05/05/03 11:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I see what you're saying but you're missing The War of 67'. Israel acquired the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Golan Heights from self-defense. I believe they gave back the Gaza Strip to Egypt and have peace with them now.

Palestine had Gaza, West Bank, Jerusalem, most of the Galilee in the North, and parts of the Negev desert in the South. Yet Israel was attacked on all sides in 1967, and the loser lost land as a result.

WIll peace prevail if Israel gives this land back? Well, they've given land back and the bombings still happen... Just recently Sharon made a deal giving more land to Palestine and then another bombing.

From the Arab point of view, ALL of Israel's land belongs to them. Israel is fending them off and trying to live it's way without the bullshit.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Israeli/Palestinian Solution [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1524560 - 05/06/03 02:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

And what's so equal about representation when the Jews were a minority in Palestine??


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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