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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
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Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film
    #2933263 - 07/27/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Soldiers decry use of footage in '9/11'

Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film


By Molly Knight
Sun Staff

Originally published July 24, 2004

Afew days after Michael Moore's blockbuster documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in theaters, a friend approached Roy Mitchell with a strange look on his face.

Mitchell, an Army staff sergeant, is a patient at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, where he is recovering from the loss of his left leg in an explosion in Afghanistan. As the friend approached him that day, he studied Mitchell's face, then told him something that shocked him.

"You're in that 9/11 movie," he said, then added: "Man, it doesn't make you look good."

It was the first Mitchell knew that Moore's controversial documentary, which has played to record-setting audiences, had used film of him to help make its case against President George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.

"I'm in it," he said. "And I didn't know until it opened."

In a brief film clip taken from an interview he did with the British television network Channel 4 in February, Mitchell appears in the physical-training room of Walter Reed, where he shared the following words about wounded soldiers:

"The ones that are covered are the KIAs - the 'Killed in Action.' I'm not taking anything away from those soldiers. They deserve that coverage. But there is also us. To say we're forgotten, that would be going just a little bit too far to say we're forgotten, but I'd say we are the missed soldiers of the Army."

Mitchell does not deny making the remarks. But he vehemently objects to filmmaker Moore's using them - without his knowledge - in a film he thinks undermines the military's mission in Iraq and Afghanistan, where he risked his life.

"The president is the commander in chief of our military," Mitchell said. "I don't want to have my face in a film that's anti-Bush, or anti-military."

Mitchell, of course, is far from the only critic of Moore's latest film, which despite its success has been condemned by some as more propaganda than documentary, and has been taken to task for alleged factual lapses. Moore, who has vigorously defended his film against such criticism, could not be reached through the film's publicists to discuss Mitchell's complaint.

Mitchell has not seen Fahrenheit 9/11 in its entirety, but he said that he's seen enough to disagree with its message and with Moore's use of his comments.

"The way they lead into my spot in the movie insinuates that I'm talking bad about the military," Mitchell said.

In the film, images of dead Iraqis precede his clip. Following it are the remarks of another Marine who vows never to return to Iraq.

Mitchell, a father of two from Batesville, Ind., lost his leg and suffered serious burns when his vehicle was struck by an explosive device in Shkin, Afghanistan. Still, he hopes he'll be able to serve at least 12 more years in the military. But now he fears that fallout from the film could stand in his way.

"If anyone on those medical boards sees my face and recognizes I was in the film, they could use it to determine my future," he said. "I don't need to be associated with that."

A spokeswoman in the public affairs office of Fort Drum, N.Y., where Mitchell's 10th Mountain Division is based, said someone on the staff is "looking into" the matter but that the sergeant's appearance in the film should not affect his career advancement.

However, the spokeswoman, Master Sgt. Sharon K. Opeka, expressed little sympathy for Mitchell's plight.

"That's television," Opeka said. "And if you do an interview for one channel, it's their property and they can do what they want with it. Probably he was not thinking about this at the time."

Apparently, Mitchell is not the only soldier to make an unwitting appearance in the movie, which is on the verge of earning $100 million at the box office.

The July 15 issue of The Enterprise, a Massachusetts newspaper, reported that Army reservist Peter Damon - also recuperating at Walter Reed after losing parts of both arms in an explosion in Iraq - was "surprised" to learn that an interview he gave to NBC this year is shown in the film.

John Gonsalves, the founder of Homes for Our Troops - a Massachusetts organization that builds homes for disabled soldiers - is constructing a new house for Damon and his wife, with whom he has talked extensively about the film.

"To do a movie that's clearly anti-war and totally against the Bush administration, and to put these guys in it without their knowledge, is morally wrong, and maybe even legally," said Gonsalves.

While he continues his physical training at Walter Reed, Mitchell said, he intends to take his opposition to the clip as far as possible. He said he plans to meet with an attorney next week to discuss possible legal recourse.

"I'm going to do everything I can to let them know I don't want to be associated with the film," he said.



Copyright ? 2004, The Baltimore Sun | Get home delivery

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/movies/bal-to.soldier24jul24,1,7065574.story


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: wingnutx]
    #2933353 - 07/27/04 06:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

moderator please?


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Tao]
    #2933358 - 07/27/04 06:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Moderate what? These are not duplicate posts, they are about separate individuals, published in separate periodicals.

If this offends your sensibilities, please do not read them. I will post some pictures of kittens on another board for you to look at instead.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: wingnutx]
    #2933410 - 07/27/04 06:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

More publicity for Moore's film.  :thumbup: Keep talking about it. You can't buy publicity like this.








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Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2933413 - 07/27/04 06:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Pretty much.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2933439 - 07/27/04 06:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
More publicity for Moore's film.  :thumbup: Keep talking about
it. You can't buy publicity like this. 


Yes. The extra dozen or so tickets sold because of this post should ensure Moore's retirement. Woo Hoo!


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2933455 - 07/27/04 06:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Wingnutx's reappearance will create a ratings spike. More than a few people will see it.

:thumbup:







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Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: wingnutx]
    #2933551 - 07/27/04 07:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The people that fight for our country deserve more respect.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2933594 - 07/27/04 07:20 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
The people that fight for our country deserve more respect.



I agree. Sending 'em to bogus wars like this is terrible.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Viaggio]
    #2933606 - 07/27/04 07:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I must concur


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OfflineTao
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Viaggio]
    #2933725 - 07/27/04 07:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

well said, though i would expect as much from our lord and savior Jesus Christ.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: wingnutx]
    #2933760 - 07/27/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"To do a movie that's clearly anti-war and totally against the Bush administration, and to put these guys in it without their knowledge, is morally wrong, and maybe even legally," said Gonsalves.

Gonsalves is wrong and wrong.

did these soldiers make the comments or not?

did they sign releases for their interviews?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: afoaf]
    #2933980 - 07/27/04 09:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know the points of US law on this, so I'll just give an opinion.

Agreeing to be interviewed for a news program is not the same thing as agreeing to have that interview appear in a mockumentary. News programs are factual reporting. Mockumentaries are not.

I believe (until told otherwise by someone who can cite the relevant legal references) that a waiver allowing NBC to air your comments on a nightly newscast cannot be legally equivalent to allowing anyone at all to air your comments for all time in a biased and slanted propaganda piece worthy of Lenni Riefenstahl at her best. Public figures (the prez, secdef etc.) have different rules applying, of course, but they know that going into it.

Legal aspects aside, it is morally wrong. But hey, this is Michael Moore we're talking about.

pinky


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Phred]
    #2934111 - 07/27/04 10:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, F9/11 was very one sided. Yes, it was very opinionated. No, it did not contain any factual errors.

TECHNICALLY, it was a factual report.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: vampirism]
    #2934370 - 07/27/04 11:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, yes it did contain factual errors. Quite a few.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

pinky


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Phred]
    #2934588 - 07/28/04 12:11 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

you haven't seen the detail of the waiver.

a waiver isn't a waiver isn't a waiver.

CBS could have quite easily included a clause stipulating
that they own all rights to the footage and can use it as they
see fit, whether that means selling it to moore or using
it to wipe their asses with.

I'd expect language like this in any sort of waiver for
footage taken by large media houses.

The fact that despite all the hooplah there has been NO
lawsuits on the matter, especially considering the enormous
number of people that would happily fund such a suit makes
me feel even more confident that these people don't have
a foot to stand on.

sucks, yesh, but, again, did the soldiers or did they not say
what they've been quoted as saying?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: afoaf]
    #2935328 - 07/28/04 03:28 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
did these soldiers make the comments or not?
did they sign releases for their interviews?




it doesnt matter, Moore bouth the rights to that footage from whom ever owned it, the owner being the person that filmed it... the guy can file suit but it will most likely be struck down...

look into international copyright law as well as domestic... both state that the images/video footage belong to the cameraman or his employer


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Phred]
    #2935335 - 07/28/04 03:35 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
I don't know the points of US law on this, so I'll just give an opinion.






here you go... a little filler

Quote:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

? 201. Ownership of copyright1

(a) Initial Ownership. ? Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. The authors of a joint work are coowner of copyright in the work.

(b) Works Made for Hire. ? In the case of a work made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared is considered the author for purposes of this title, and, unless the parties have expressly agreed otherwise in a written instrument signed by them, owns all of the rights comprised in the copyright.

(c) Contributions to Collective Works. ? Copyright in each separate contribution to a collective work is distinct from copyright in the collective work as a whole, and vests initially in the author of the contribution. In the absence of an express transfer of the copyright or of any rights under it, the owner of copyright in the collective work is presumed to have acquired only the privilege of reproducing and distributing the contribution as part of that particular collective work, any revision of that collective work, and any later collective work in the same series.

(d) Transfer of Ownership. ?

(1) The ownership of a copyright may be transferred in whole or in part by any means of conveyance or by operation of law, and may be bequeathed by will or pass as personal property by the applicable laws of intestate succession.

(2) Any of the exclusive rights comprised in a copyright, including any subdivision of any of the rights specified by section 106, may be transferred as provided by clause (1) and owned separately. The owner of any particular exclusive right is entitled, to the extent of that right, to all of the protection and remedies accorded to the copyright owner by this title.

(e) Involuntary Transfer. ? When an individual author's ownership of a copyright, or of any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, has not previously been transferred voluntarily by that individual author, no action by any governmental body or other official or organization purporting to seize, expropriate, transfer, or exercise rights of ownership with respect to the copyright, or any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, shall be given effect under this title, except as provided under title 11.2




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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Two men oppose use of clips featuring them in Moore film [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #2935680 - 07/28/04 10:19 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

that's exactly my point.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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