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Offlinefft2
journeyman

Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
New York times Fact checks Moore
    #2837108 - 06/28/04 07:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/movies...artner=USERLAND

Mr. Moore is on firm ground in arguing that the Bushes, like many prominent Texas families with oil interests, have profited handsomely from their relationships with prominent Saudis, including members of the royal family and of the large and fabulously wealthy bin Laden clan, which has insisted it long ago disowned Osama. Mr. Moore spends several minutes in the film documenting ties between the president and James R. Bath, a financial advisor to a prominent member of the bin Laden family who was an original investor in Mr. Bush's Arbusto energy company and who served with the future president in the Air National Guard in the early 1970's. The Bath friendship, which indirectly links Mr. Bush to the family of the world's most notorious terrorist, has received less attention from national news organization than it has from reporters in Texas, but it has been well documented.

Mr. Moore charges that President Bush and his aides paid too little attention to warnings in the summer of 2001 that Al Qaeda was about to attack, including a detailed Aug. 6, 2001, C.I.A. briefing that warned of terrorism within the country's borders. In its final report next month, the Sept. 11 commission can be expected to offer support to this assertion. Mr. Moore says that instead of focusing on Al Qaeda, the president spent 42 percent of his first eight months in office on vacation; the figure came not from a conspiracy-hungry Web site but from a calculation by The Washington Post.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,009
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: fft2]
    #2837164 - 06/28/04 07:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Unfortunately for Moore, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him.

Yet gullible sheep flock to his films.

Puzzling.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837237 - 06/28/04 08:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

can you point me to any source that can prove
that Moore has lied about the points he makes
in the movie, Mr. McBitterson?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2837328 - 06/28/04 08:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I read the Times every day and I don't recall this review nor do I recognize the name Phillip Shenon. As to Moore lies and obfuscations see Christopher Hitchens' article from another thread (Pinky linked it and Hitchens is a lib).


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,009
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2837355 - 06/28/04 08:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Sure. Soon as you show me where in my post I referred to his current film.

You need to pay "moore" attention.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837366 - 06/28/04 08:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Unfortunately for Moore, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him.

that statement, given the title line of the thread... would seem to imply that you were referring to his current film.

if you weren't referring to his latest film, you had me fooled as well.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,009
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: ]
    #2837393 - 06/28/04 08:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Read it a bit closer. You'll see I (deliberately) made no mention of his current movie. I haven't seen it and as such don't know if it's as full of shit as the last.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,878
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837459 - 06/28/04 09:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Just like Bush never saaaaaaaiiid that Iraq was an "imminent" threat, right?






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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Dennis & The Times - Flight Patterns



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,009
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Learyfan]
    #2837528 - 06/28/04 09:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Did he?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837575 - 06/28/04 10:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031103.html
http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2003_11_09_archive.html

there's a couple interesting pieces on the matter.

though, there is the argument that while there was no
literal mention of the phrase, 87% of americans (USA Today)
walked away from the table believing that iraq posed an
imminent threat to the US.

whether that's creditable to the administration's skill at
plausibly deniable doublespeak or americans poor listening
comprehension is debatable.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineBush2004
newbie
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2837582 - 06/28/04 10:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
can you point me to any source that can prove
that Moore has lied about the points he makes
in the movie, Mr. McBitterson?




Try this

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

and another

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39079

Keep admiring this guy. He obviously has no problem with the actions of Hezbollah. I guess he has no problem with organizations that want to kill every Jew on the planet.



Edited by Bush2004 (06/28/04 10:33 PM)


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OfflineBush2004
newbie
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837585 - 06/28/04 10:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Daniel Ledeen...a budding journalist with a summer internship at the Washington bureau of The New York Sun, wangled an admission to the Washington event of the day... the Michael Moore press conference.

Young Ledeen then asked the toughest question to the muckraking (or muckslinging) filmmaker, depending on your POV. To wit, he asked the budding mogul what he thought of Hezbollah being involved in the distribution of Fahrenheit 911. "Shockingly," Moore shined him on with some comment about some people believing there were Martians on Earth (or the equivalent). But Ledeen came armed with a follow-up, having phoned Moore's distributor who had already affirmed the rumor. Then the "courageous documentarian" simply stonewalled and changed the subject. So it goes

Roger L Simon


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,230
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837637 - 06/28/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Try this
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

and another

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39079

Keep admiring this guy. He obviously has no problem with the actions of Hezbollah. I guess he has no problem with organizations that want to kill every Jew on the planet.






keep admiring bush, he has no problem killing millions for a little green, demonizing several million potheads as terrorists... did you read the first piece you posted... some jackass that is more interested in hearing himself talk than making a report, a serious slant that starts "One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left"

so what is the right of america... those that blindly follow without question.

here, have a review of the review(er)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/lieshitchens.html



Edited by Prisoner#1 (06/28/04 11:05 PM)


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837712 - 06/28/04 11:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Unfortunately for Moore, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him.

Yet gullible sheep flock to his films.

Puzzling.




Unfortunately for our country and our notions of free speech, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him for reasons that can never be properly explained by anyone who holds this opinion. When questioned about the presupposed "lies", Moore's opponents usually burst into ad hominem attacks about his weight.

And yet, open minded people keep flocking to his films.

Puzzling.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineBush2004
newbie
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #2837715 - 06/28/04 11:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I see... so Bush has killed millions now.

Yep Michael Moore is an objective source.

I can post dozens of articles that discredit most of the movie. The 911 comission has refuted the Sauds on the planes.

Do you thinks it a good thing that Hezbollah is distributing this film.


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837724 - 06/28/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

So we've gone from "Hezbollah endorses F 9/11" to "Micheal Moore has no problem with the actions of Hezbollah" to "Hezbollah is distributing the film"...

Seriously...


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2838088 - 06/29/04 01:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

no thinking allowed.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineBush2004
newbie
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2838119 - 06/29/04 01:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Daniel Ledeen...a budding journalist with a summer internship at the Washington bureau of The New York Sun, wangled an admission to the Washington event of the day... the Michael Moore press conference.

Young Ledeen then asked the toughest question to the muckraking (or muckslinging) filmmaker, depending on your POV. To wit, he asked the budding mogul what he thought of Hezbollah being involved in the distribution of Fahrenheit 911. "Shockingly," Moore shined him on with some comment about some people believing there were Martians on Earth (or the equivalent). But Ledeen came armed with a follow-up, having phoned Moore's distributor who had already affirmed the rumor. Then the "courageous documentarian" simply stonewalled and changed the subject. So it goes

Roger L Simon




read that again.

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore. Similar to the Useful Idiots back during the cold war. Stalin loved them.


Moore's own words


write "pretend" because Moore understands, from first-hand experience, the protections enjoyed by opinion journalists. On This Week, Moore described Fahrenheit 9/11 as "an op-ed piece. It's my opinion about the last four years of the Bush administration. And that's what I call it. I'm not trying to pretend that this is some sort of, you know, fair and balanced work of journalism. ?" Later in the interview, he called the movie "a comedy, too." In other words, he knows that nobody is likely to get very far by suing him for his opinions, as expressed in Fahrenheit 9/11. Since he clearly understands the law, it's plain that if we take Moore at his word, he appears to believe in free speech only for himself.


Michael Moore's hysterical, empty threats.
By Jack Shafer


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2838127 - 06/29/04 01:44 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore.




so?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Vvellum]
    #2838130 - 06/29/04 01:44 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore.




so?




--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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