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OfflineSquattingMarmot
Inquiring Mind
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 418
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Michael Moore Hates America
    #2863587 - 07/07/04 02:40 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Has anybody else seen previews for this "rebuttle" film for F9/11?

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

Its pretty sad when they have to use an ad-hominen attack in the title of the film. I just came back from seeing F9/11 and IMO, is a very patriotic film that criticizes the Bush admin and its policies, not America itself. Tomorrow night (Wed, July 7th) on the Daily Show they're doing a clip about this movie, it looks funny as hell.


--------------------
"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


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OfflineRedo
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2863867 - 07/07/04 06:20 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

At least he goes challenged.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2863873 - 07/07/04 06:22 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

At least now we can say everyone who hates Michael Moore loves this fag!  :laugh:


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2863921 - 07/07/04 06:52 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

SquattingMarmot wries:

Its pretty sad when they have to use an ad-hominen attack in the title of the film.

Huh? That's not an ad hominem. "Stupid White Men" -- now that's an ad hominem.

Besides, Moore does hate America -- at least his many public statements on the subject make it abundantly clear he does.

pinky


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OfflineWorf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Phred]
    #2864128 - 07/07/04 10:20 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

If he hated america, wouldn't he put out a movie promoting bush?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Worf]
    #2864167 - 07/07/04 10:40 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

> If he hated america, wouldn't he put out a movie promoting bush?

Wouldn't make as much money.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Phred]
    #2864270 - 07/07/04 11:21 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Besides, Moore does hate America -- at least his many public statements on the subject make it abundantly clear he does.



How so? I'm sure you're aware that criticism of one's country is not the same as hating it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2864300 - 07/07/04 11:30 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

at first I was thinking that this movie was just going
to be a pile of GOP crap, but they had the maker of
the film on conway and steckler last week...

he was actually very levelheaded and far from shrill.

I'm kind of curious to see what he does with this film.

although, if it's just more of the 'Moore lies by edit'
bullshit, I'll take a crap in the aisle and leave.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2864373 - 07/07/04 11:57 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

There are of course already numerous articles showing it to be just that.

And to be fair, others showing it's not.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2864602 - 07/07/04 12:54 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I don't understand this discussion of whether Moore is lying, or is against America, or is too Liberal, or whatever.

The Farenheit 9/11 film was all actuall footage of things that were actually documented occurring.
Then we get a comment from the presidency claiming that it was "fiction"
I don't get it. Someone enlighten me.

The movie obviously had a clear bias (what with all the tear-jerker scenes and such), but it was all presented by facts, not exaggerations.

Who cares if Moore has his own personal liberal agenda, or is getting rich off the movie, or whatever the fuck...

Bottom line, Farenheit 9/11 shows that the current administration is lying through their teeth to the American people about very serious life or death issues, which was what the movie was all about. If someone can refute this statement, I'd be eager to hear it. Really.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Grav]
    #2864612 - 07/07/04 12:57 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Moore is a master of making you think his way is the only way.


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OfflineDoctorJ
"Nazi, Satanist Anti-Christ"
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2864644 - 07/07/04 01:03 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

"Michael Moore Hates America" ?????


Is that the best they can do???
:lol: :lol: :lol:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Its like the dying screams of dinosaurs.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Grav]
    #2864658 - 07/07/04 01:06 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

> but it was all presented by facts, not exaggerations.

This is my main gripe with Moore... he exaggerates facts to mislead people into following his line of reasoning. Show me the facts and let me decide if I want to think as you... don't try to slight-of-edit different speaches together, etc...

> Bottom line, Farenheit 9/11 shows that the current administration is lying through their teeth to the American people about very serious life or death issues, which was what the movie was all about.

Yes it does... I just wish I could trust Moore enough to accept it as accurate, rather than sensationalized hype... I am not saying F911 is accurate or is hype, but rather that I cannot trust Moore to provide me something that isn't hype.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Redo]
    #2865455 - 07/07/04 04:51 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

how, exactly, can you reinterpret the facts?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2865566 - 07/07/04 05:26 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Seuss, I totally agree with you about the editing trick stuff, and how Moore wants to present things a certain way, His way.

But regardless, the film shows some black & white information that is liberated from any sort of personal bias. It also shows footage that you just can't see anywheres else. Mainly Iraqi war clips that give you a little reality check of what's actually happening.

It's obvious Moore WANTS you to hate the administration, but damn he gives some pretty solid reasons to do so.

Though, I also think it's good to be wary of his information, Anyone's information. No matter how Righteous they appear. It's good practice to assume everyone is lying to you because they probably are.

But some film footage just doesn't lie any way you look at it.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Grav]
    #2865603 - 07/07/04 05:36 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I mean c'mon.
It needs to be said, and said loudly all over the world.

They lied and sent people to death for personal profit.

"Oh well" if we have to put up with his editing tricks. The overall message is clear.. our country is led by thieves and liars. I'm not idealistic enough to think that this information will actually change anything, but atleast it's becoming more available and LESS corrupt.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2865845 - 07/07/04 06:40 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
how, exactly, can you reinterpret the facts?




Well the Bush Admin stated only facts but for some reason a great deal of people seem to think they lied numerous times.

Its funny how Moore uses tactics that are Similar to the Bush Admin's to deceive people. I really have no idea why some people are unable to realize it.

I mean i see all the bullshit mixed in with good stuff from Hanity and Colmes, Coulter, and O'Reilly. Moore is not a saint.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: d33p]
    #2865928 - 07/07/04 06:57 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

which facts did they state ?

(loose quotes)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

the vast majority of my tax cuts go to the middle class

saddam has deadly WMDs, they're in the area in and
around tikrit. (rummy)

I'm a compassionate conservative dedicated to limited
federal government.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

the bush administration has made a living by ignoring,
suppressing and twisting the facts.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2865934 - 07/07/04 06:58 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

rupert murdoch hates america, that is why he is ruining it with all the right-wing pro-christian propganda on fox spews


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2866034 - 07/07/04 07:29 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
which facts did they state ?

(loose quotes)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

the vast majority of my tax cuts go to the middle class

saddam has deadly WMDs, they're in the area in and
around tikrit. (rummy)

I'm a compassionate conservative dedicated to limited
federal government.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

the bush administration has made a living by ignoring,
suppressing and twisting the facts.




Of course, they are politicians. Why don't you see that Moore is doing the exact same thing.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: d33p]
    #2866084 - 07/07/04 07:44 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

except that moore's facts, by and large, ARE facts,
littered with melodrama, not make believe and out
right bullshit.

fact: bush sat on his duff

fact: bush family has close ties to saudis

fact: bush diverted resources from afghanistan and the
hunt for osama to take out saddam

fact: saddam was not involved in 9/11

fact: choicepoint and katherine harris illegally removed
eligible voters from the florida voter roles

fact: the bush administration has motivated one of the
largest exoduses of commited public servants from their
positions in government

bush misrepresented his tax cuts, his war, his NCLB, CS
and HF initiatives to the point of plausibly deniable lies.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: d33p]
    #2866153 - 07/07/04 08:03 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Why don't you see that Moore is doing the exact same thing.

To the best of my limited knowledge, Moore hasn't put us $1,000,000,000,000 in debt; pissed off many allies, gotten almost a thousand of our young men killed, dismantled the Constitution...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Swami]
    #2866178 - 07/07/04 08:08 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Why don't you see that Moore is doing the exact same thing.

To the best of my limited knowledge, Moore hasn't put us $1,000,000,000,000 in debt; pissed off many allies, gotten almost a thousand of our young men killed, dismantled the Constitution...




I'm sure you are only trying to be funny, but could all the left-leaning people on this board improve their reading comprehension skills.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: d33p]
    #2866199 - 07/07/04 08:12 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I read and I obey.

This whole thread is a joke to compare a journalist/entertainer who has NO power over citizens, to an idiot bent on destroying an entire way of life.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Swami]
    #2866234 - 07/07/04 08:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I read and I obey.

This whole thread is a joke to compare a journalist/entertainer who has NO power over citizens, to an idiot bent on destroying an entire way of life.




You see this is what im talking about, those reading comprehension skills. We were not comparing Moore to Bush. We were comparing the similarities in their propaganda tactics.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: d33p]
    #2866267 - 07/07/04 08:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

We were comparing the similarities in their propaganda tactics.

Uh huh. Like comparing Mike Tyson's right cross to that of a school childs. They both use the same muscles.

Where then is the film of Moore promising to find Osama Bin Laden at all costs and then dismissing it's importance?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Phred]
    #2868238 - 07/08/04 11:19 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Besides, Moore does hate America -- at least his many public statements on the subject make it abundantly clear he does.




Sources? I'd like to see these "abundantly clear" statements.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Vvellum]
    #2868340 - 07/08/04 11:45 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

apparently making statements criticizing the
american corporate establishment or the
corruption in our government equates to
hating america itself.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2868390 - 07/08/04 12:11 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

it's abundantly clear that you're either with us or against us.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Vvellum]
    #2868527 - 07/08/04 01:08 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I'll smoke you out of your hole....

or smoke out of your hole...

or, something like that.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2868891 - 07/08/04 03:18 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

In the end, what is, is.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Redo]
    #2869354 - 07/08/04 05:48 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moore is a master of making you think his way is the only way.




Nobody MAKES anyone think anything. F9/11 is just an editorial. Moore has his opinions about Bush and the Iraq war, and he's presenting them to anyone who wants to hear them. Listen to what he has to say about the issue, listen to what Donald Rumsfeld or George Bush has to say about it, and decide for yourself.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #2869447 - 07/08/04 06:27 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

you may as well be pissing in the wind, homie.

where you been?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineEd1
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2869502 - 07/08/04 06:46 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I recently bought Michael Moore's book 'Stupid White Men' when I found out it contained a chapter called 'Kill Whitey' in it. I want to scan a couple pages and post it on the internet in a couple places. It appears Michael Moore hates white people, too, even if he himself is white. The whole chapter is a soapbox diatribe on how bad white people are and how badly they have treated him and how black people and other minorities are subjected to all kinds of propaganda.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2869574 - 07/08/04 07:10 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
except that moore's facts, by and large, ARE facts,
littered with melodrama, not make believe and out
right bullshit.

fact: bush sat on his duff




That is one interpretation. The fact is: he did not immediately react to a brief that a plane had hit the World Trade Center.

Quote:

fact: bush family has close ties to saudis




That doesn't really matter. If my family has ties to Ireland does that make me complicit with the IRA?

Quote:

fact: bush diverted resources from afghanistan and the
hunt for osama to take out saddam




This is not a fact. You are presuming that with the war in Iraq the US cut back on trying to find bin Laden. That is not true.

Quote:

fact: saddam was not involved in 9/11




This is a fact. Nobody said it was otherwise.

Quote:

fact: choicepoint and katherine harris illegally removed
eligible voters from the florida voter roles




This is not a fact, this is your allegation.

Quote:

fact: the bush administration has motivated one of the
largest exoduses of commited public servants from their
positions in government




I don't know for sure, but this would seem to be a gross exageration.

Quote:

bush misrepresented his tax cuts, his war, his NCLB, CS
and HF initiatives to the point of plausibly deniable lies.




Those are not 'facts' either.


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Offlineblu3
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2869638 - 07/08/04 07:26 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
[

Quote:

fact: bush family has close ties to saudis





Quote:

fact: bush diverted resources from afghanistan and the
hunt for osama to take out saddam




This is not a fact. You are presuming that with the war in Iraq the US cut back on trying to find bin Laden. That is not true.

you are incorrect. .

Quote:

fact: saddam was not involved in 9/11




This is a fact. Nobody said it was otherwise.
bush has implied that saddam and iraq could be linked to the bin laden and the terriost attacks.

Quote:

fact: choicepoint and katherine harris illegally removed
eligible voters from the florida voter roles




This is not a fact, this is your allegation.
you are incorrect. This is a fact.

Quote:

fact: the bush administration has motivated one of the
largest exoduses of commited public servants from their
positions in government




I don't know for sure, but this would seem to be a gross exageration.
I know he used some big words and fancy sentence structure but this too is also correct.

Quote:

bush misrepresented his tax cuts, his war, his NCLB, CS
and HF initiatives to the point of plausibly deniable lies.




Those are not 'facts' either.
you are incorrect again.




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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Ed1]
    #2869802 - 07/08/04 08:12 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

haven't read it....


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2869870 - 07/08/04 08:33 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

afoaf said:
except that moore's facts, by and large, ARE facts,
littered with melodrama, not make believe and out
right bullshit.

fact: bush sat on his duff




That is one interpretation. The fact is: he did not immediately react to a brief that a plane had hit the World Trade Center.

he knew going in that one had hit and continued to sit there after he was notified that the second had hit....again...sat on his duff.

Quote:

fact: bush family has close ties to saudis




That doesn't really matter. If my family has ties to Ireland does that make me complicit with the IRA?

it does when you've been coddling the Saudis even in the face of our WOT, remember 15 out of 19, royal funding for Al Queda and all that jazz

Quote:

fact: bush diverted resources from afghanistan and the
hunt for osama to take out saddam




This is not a fact. You are presuming that with the war in Iraq the US cut back on trying to find bin Laden. That is not true.

enjoy!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=resources+diverted+from+afghanistan&spell=1


Quote:

fact: saddam was not involved in 9/11




This is a fact. Nobody said it was otherwise.

Quote:

fact: choicepoint and katherine harris illegally removed
eligible voters from the florida voter roles




This is not a fact, this is your allegation.

Greg Palast's The Best Democracy Money Can Buy

Quote:

fact: the bush administration has motivated one of the
largest exoduses of commited public servants from their
positions in government




I don't know for sure, but this would seem to be a gross exageration.

google search, I'm pressed for time, but I produced a sizeable
body of information on this claim in a recent thread, I'll dig for it later


Quote:

bush misrepresented his tax cuts, his war, his NCLB, CS
and HF initiatives to the point of plausibly deniable lies.




Those are not 'facts' either.




I did not preface that phrase with 'fact', that's my
summary of the aforementioned information, which, as it turns
out, are facts


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
Inquiring Mind
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 418
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: afoaf]
    #2871473 - 07/09/04 02:51 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

afoaf said:

fact: bush sat on his duff




That is one interpretation. The fact is: he did not immediately react to a brief that a plane had hit the World Trade Center.

he knew going in that one had hit and continued to sit there after he was notified that the second had hit....again...sat on his duff.







Heres an interesting video clip about this from the CBC, one of Canada's news networks.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/bushsawfirstplane1.ram

Seems like Bush can't keep his story straight. :rolleyes:


--------------------
"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
Inquiring Mind
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 418
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: Phred]
    #2871507 - 07/09/04 02:59 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I agree, the name of the movie isn't an ad-hom attack, I'm not sure why I wrote that when I did. I was just so disgusted that they have to resort to challenging Moore's patriotism in the name of the movie. It just shows how desperate they've become I guess.

I would also like to see the sources or quotes you have of Michael Moore being Anti-American. He many be a lot of things but being un-patriotic isn't one of them.


--------------------
"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


Edited by SquattingMarmot (07/09/04 03:39 AM)


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: Michael Moore Hates America [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2871562 - 07/09/04 03:24 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

CBC has doctored and photoshopped those videos!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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