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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Moore hits back
    #1951242 - 09/25/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

There's no date for this article (but the title seems to imply it's quite new), so apologies if it's been posted previously, but I thought I'd post it seeing as the last thread provoked so much discussion. I'm going to post it in it's entirety because I thought he made some good points, and echoed some that I made myself in the last thread.

Quote:

How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie about "Bowling for Columbine"
by Michael Moore

One thing you get used to when you're in what's called "the public eye" is reading the humorous fiction that others like to write about you. For instance, I have read in quite respectable and trustworthy publications that a) I'm a college graduate (I'm not), b) I was a factory worker (I quit the first day), and c) I have two brothers (I have none). Newsweek wrote that I live in a penthouse on Central Park West (I live above a Baby Gap store, and not on any park), and the Internet Movie Database once listed me as the director of the Elvis movie, "Blue Hawaii" ( I was 6 at the time the film was made, but I was quite skilled in directing my sisters in building me a snowman). Lately, my favorite mistake is the one many reviewers made crediting the cartoon in "Bowling for Columbine" as being the work of the "South Park" creators. It isn't. I wrote it and my buddy Harold Moss's animation studio drew it.

I've enjoyed reading these inventions/mistakes about this "Michael Moore." I mean, who wouldn't want to fantasize about living in penthouses roughhousing with brothers you never had. But lately I've begun to see so many things about me or my work that aren't true. It's become so easy to spread these fictions through the internet (thanks mostly to lazy reporters or web junkies who do all their research by typing in "key words" and then just repeat the same mistakes). And so I wonder that if I don't correct the record, then all of the people who don't know better may just end up being filled with a bunch of stuff that isn't true.

Of course, it would take a lot of my time to contact all these sites and media outlets to correct their errors and I think it's more important I spend my time on my next book or movie so I just let it ride. But is that fair to you, the reader, who has now been told something that isn't true?

With the unexpected and overwhelming success of "Bowling for Columbine" and "Stupid White Men," the fiction that has been written or spoken about me and my work has reached a whole new level of storytelling. It's no longer about making some simple errors or calling me "Roger" Moore. It is now about organized groups going full blast trying to discredit me by knowingly making up lies and repeating them over and over in the hopes that people will believe them ? and, then, stop listening to me.

Oh, that it would be so easy!

Fortunately, they are so wound up in their anger and hatred that they have ended up discrediting themselves.

Look, I accept the fact that, if I go after the Thief-in-Chief ? and more people buy my book than any other nonfiction book last year ? then that is naturally going to send a few of his henchmen after me. Fine. That's okay. I knew that before I got into this and I ain't whining about it now.

I also realize that you just don't go after the NRA and its supporters and then not expect them to come back at you with both barrels (so to speak). These are not nice people and they don't play nice ? that's how they got to be so powerful.

So, a whole host of gun lobby groups and individual gun nuts have put up websites where the smears on me range from the pre-adolescent (I'm a "crapweasel," and a "fat fucking piece of shit") to Orwellian-style venom ("Michael Moore hates America!").

I have mostly ignored this silliness. But a few weeks ago, this lunatic crap hit the mainstream fan. CNN actually put some guy on a show saying that my film contains "so many falsehoods, one after the other, after the other, after the other." They introduced him as a "critic" and "research director" of the "Independence Institute." He seemed mighty impressive.

Except they failed to tell their viewers who he really was: a contributing editor of Gun Week Magazine.

CNN saw no need to inform the viewers that their "expert"-- who has made a career out of opposing any form of gun control?has a vested interest in convincing the public that "Bowling for Columbine" is a horribly rotten movie.

So, what do you do when the nutcases succeed in getting on CNN? Do you just keep ignoring them? How do you handle people who say the Holocaust never happened or that monkeys fly? Ignore them and they'll go away? If you give them any attention, all the nuts will come out of the woodwork.

And that's what happened. I saw another one of these lunatics, this time on MSNBC. A guy named John Lofton. He went on and on about how my movie is all made up. The anchor on MSNBC never challenged him on his lies and never told the viewers who he really was ? a right wing crazy who believes Bush is too liberal. He was once an advisor to Pat Buchanan's Presidential campaign, and was a direct-mail writer for Jesse Helms. Writing in opposition to Hate Crime bills in the conservative Washington Times (where he was a columnist from '83 to '89), Lofton explained:

Take, for example, this business of so-called "anti-gay violence." This bill will be used to go after only those who commit crimes against people because they are homosexuals. But this is not the most pernicious form of "anti-gay violence." Not by a long shot.

The most violent - indeed fatal 100 percent of the time - form of "anti-gay violence" has been committed not by so-called "homophobes" who bash homosexuals - but by male homosexuals and bisexuals against other male bisexuals and homosexuals.

To date, tens of thousands of male bisexual and homosexual men are dead in our country because of AIDS, because they engaged in high-risk homosexual sex.

Is this not "anti-gay violence" which numbers its victims far beyond anything any "homophobes" have done?


Well, I figured I better deal with this because the nutters were now being turned into "respectable critics" by a media that either had an agenda or were just plain lazy.

So, how crazy are the things they've said about "Bowling for Columbine?" Here are my favorites:

"That scene where you got the gun in the bank was staged!"

Well of course it was staged! It's a movie! We built the "bank" as a set and then I hired actors to play the bank tellers and the manager and we got a toy gun from the prop department and then I wrote some really cool dialogue for me and them to say! Pretty neat, huh?

Or...

The Truth: In the spring of 2001, I saw a real ad in a real newspaper in Michigan announcing a real promotion that this real bank had where they would give you a gun (as your up-front interest) for opening up a Certificate of Deposit account. They promoted this in publications all over the country ? "More Bang for Your Buck!"

There was news coverage of this bank giving away guns, long before I even shot the scene there. The Chicago Sun Times wrote about how the bank would "hand you a gun" with the purchase of a CD. Those are the precise words used by a bank employee in the film.

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" ? that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 ? and opened up a 20-year CD account. After you see me filling out the required federal forms ("How do you spell Caucasian?") ? which I am filling out here for the first time ? the bank manager faxed it to the bank's main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF's Federal Firearms database?which includes all federally approved gun dealers?lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922).

Within 10 minutes, the "OK" came through from the firearms background check agency and, 5 minutes later, just as you see it in the film, they handed me a Weatherby Mark V Magnum rifle (If you'd like to see the outtakes, click here).

And it is that very gun that I still own to this day. I have decided the best thing to do with this gun is to melt it down into a bust of John Ashcroft and auction it off on E-Bay (more details on that later). All the proceeds will go to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence to fight all these lying gun nuts who have attacked my film and make it possible on a daily basis for America's gun epidemic to rage on.

Here's another whopper I've had to listen to from the pro-gun groups:

"The Lockheed factory in Littleton, Colorado, has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction!"

That's right! That big honkin' rocket sitting behind the Lockheed spokesman in "Bowling for Columbine"-- the one with "US AIRFORCE" written on it in BIG ASS letters ? well, I admit it, I snuck in and painted that on that Titan IV rocket when Lockheed wasn't looking! After all, those rockets were only being used for the Weather Channel! Ha Ha Ha! I sure fooled everyone!!

Or....

The Truth: Lockheed Martin is the largest weapons-maker in the world. The Littleton facility has been manufacturing missiles, missile components, and other weapons systems for almost half a century. In the 50s, workers at the Littleton facility constructed the first Titan intercontinental ballistic missile, designed to unleash a nuclear warhead on the Soviet Union; in the mid-80s, they were partially assembling MX missiles, instruments for the minuteman ICBM, a space laser weapon called Zenith Star, and a Star Wars program known as Brilliant Pebbles.

In the full, unedited interview I did with the Lockheed spokesman, he told me that Lockheed started building nuclear missiles in Littleton and "played a role in the development of Peacekeeper MX Missiles."

As for what's currently manufactured in Littleton, McCollum told me, "They (the rockets sitting behind him) carry mainly very large national security satellites, some we can't talk about." (see him say it here)

Since that interview, the Titan IV rockets manufactured in Littleton have been critical to the war effort in both Afghanistan and Iraq. These rockets launched advanced satellites that were "instrumental in providing command-and-control operations over Iraq...for the rapid targeting of Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles involved in Iraqi strikes and clandestine communications with Special Operations Forces." (view source here).

That Lockheed lets the occasional weather or TV satellite hitch a ride on one of its rockets should not distract anyone from Lockheed's main mission and moneymaker in Littleton: to make instruments that help kill people. That two of Littleton's children decided to engineer their own mass killing is what these guys and the Internet crazies don't want to discuss.

The oddest of all the smears thrown at "Bowling for Columbine" is this one:

"The film depicts NRA president Charlton Heston giving a speech near Columbine; he actually gave it a year later and 900 miles away. The speech he did give is edited to make conciliatory statements sound like rudeness."

Um, yeah, that's right! I made it up! Heston never went there! He never said those things!

Or....

The Truth: Heston took his NRA show to Denver and did and said exactly what we recounted. From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word ? read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was.

Why are these gun nuts upset that their brave NRA leader's words are in my film? You'd think they would be proud of the things he said. Except, when intercut with the words of a grieving father (whose son died at Columbine and happened to be speaking in a protest that same weekend Heston was at the convention center), suddenly Charlton Heston doesn't look so good does he? Especially to the people of Denver (and, the following year, to the people of Flint) who were still in shock over the tragedies when Heston showed up.

As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image ? hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it?

I've also been accused of making up the gun homicide counts in the United States and various countries around the world. That is, like all the rest of this stuff, a bald-face lie. Every statistic in the film is true. They all come directly from the government. Here are the facts, right from the sources:

The U.S. figure of 11,127 gun deaths comes from a report from the Center for Disease Control. Japan's gun deaths of 39 was provided by the National Police Agency of Japan; Germany: 381 gun deaths from Bundeskriminalamt (German FBI); Canada: 165 gun deaths from Statistics Canada, the governmental statistics agency; United Kingdom: 68 gun deaths, from the Centre for Crime and Justice studies in Britain; Australia: 65 gun deaths from the Australian Institute of Criminology; France: 255 gun deaths, from the International Journal of Epidemiology.

Finally, I've even been asked about whether the two killers were at bowling class on the morning of the shootings. Well, that's what their teacher told the investigators, and that's what was corroborated by several eyewitness reports of students to the police, the FBI, and the District Attorney's office. I'll tell you who wasn't there -- me! That's why in the film I pose it as a question:

"So did Dylan and Eric show up that morning and bowl two games before moving on to shoot up the school? And did they just chuck the balls down the lane? Did this mean something?"

Of course, it's a silly discussion, and it misses the whole, larger point: that blaming bowling for their killing spree would be as dumb as blaming Marilyn Manson.

But the gun nuts don't want to discuss either specific points or larger issues because when that debate is held, they lose. Most Americans want stronger gun laws (among others, see the 2001 National Gun Policy Survey from the University of Chicago's National Opinion Research Center) ? and the gun lobbies know it. That is why it's critical to distract and alter the debate ? and go after anyone who questions why we have so many gun deaths in America (especially if he does it in best selling books and popular films).

I can guarantee to you, without equivocation, that every fact in my movie is true. Three teams of fact-checkers and two groups of lawyers went through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that every statement of fact is indeed an indisputable fact. Trust me, no film company would ever release a film like this without putting it through the most vigorous vetting process possible. The sheer power and threat of the NRA is reason enough to strike fear in any movie studio or theater chain. The NRA will go after you without mercy if they think there's half a chance of destroying you. That's why we don't have better gun laws in this country ? every member of Congress is scared to death of them.

Well, guess what. Total number of lawsuits to date against me or my film by the NRA? NONE. That's right, zero. And don't forget for a second that if they could have shut this film down on a technicality they would have. But they didn't and they can't ? because the film is factually solid and above reproach. In fact, we have not been sued by any individual or group over the statements made in "Bowling for Columbine?" Why is that? Because everything we say is true ? and the things that are our opinion, we say so and leave it up to the viewer to decide if our point of view is correct or not for each of them.

So, faced with a thoroughly truthful and honest film, those who object to the film's political points are left with the choice of debating us on the issues in the film ? or resorting to character assassination. They have chosen the latter. What a sad place to be.

Actually, I have found one typo in the theatrical release of the film. It was a caption that read, "Willie Horton released by Dukakis and kills again." In fact, Willie Horton was a convicted murderer who, after escaping from furlough, raped a woman and stabbed her fianc?, but didn't kill him. The caption has been permanently corrected on the DVD and home video version of the film and replaced with, "Willie Horton released. Then rapes a woman." My apologies to Willie Horton and the Horton family for implying he is a double-murderer when he is only a single-murderer/rapist. And my apologies to the late Lee Atwater who, on his deathbed, apologized for having engineered the smear campaign against Dukakis (but correctly identified Mr. Horton as a single-murderer!).

Well, there you have it. I suppose the people who tell their make-believe stories about me and my work will continue to do so. Maybe they should be sued for knowingly libeling me. Or maybe I'll just keep laughing ? laughing all the way to the end of the Bush Administration -- scheduled, I believe, for sometime in November of next year.

Yours,

Michael Moore
Director, "Bowling for Columbine"

PS. From now on, I will deal with all wacko attackos on this page. If you hear something about me that doesn't sound quite right, check in here.




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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: Edame]
    #1951271 - 09/25/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

moore rocks.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
Re: Moore hits back [Re: Dogomush]
    #1951283 - 09/25/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What a fat lying hebe. If a liar says that his lies are true, hes just lying more.


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: Edame]
    #1951299 - 09/25/03 04:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Moore rules.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: Learyfan]
    #1951311 - 09/25/03 04:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's interesting how many white kids suppot a guy who wrote about about stupid white men. Thats right, hate your own kind, support everyoen else. sounds.... er...... logical?


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Moore hits back [Re: lysergic]
    #1951492 - 09/25/03 05:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's always colour with you isn't it? Get over it already.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: lysergic]
    #1951503 - 09/25/03 05:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"It's interesting how many white kids suppot a guy who wrote about about stupid white men. Thats right, hate your own kind, support everyoen else. sounds.... er...... logical? "

If you had actually read the book, you'd know it's not an anti-white diatribe. His point was that the United States is run primarily by "stupid white men". Not that all white men are stupid or anything ridiculous like that. Saying that Moore is anti-white doesn't make any sense, it's not only inaccurate, it's irrelevant.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Moore hits back [Re: Phluck]
    #1951512 - 09/25/03 05:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Saying that Moore is anti-white doesn't make any sense, it's not only inaccurate, it's irrelevant.



What is relevant is that Moore is anti-freedom and pro-government empowerment.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: Autonomous]
    #1951655 - 09/25/03 05:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

He's not pro-government empowerment. Noone gives it to "the man" harder than Moore does.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Moore hits back [Re: Learyfan]
    #1951685 - 09/25/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I call gun control pro-government empowerment, for it takes away tools of self defense from the citizens. With all the bad things that the state has done in the past, it is foolish to trust it further. But politics is generally not about what is wise or what is right, it is about some people advancing THEIR agenda, what THEY think is the best way for others to live and forcing their fellow man to abide by it via the coercive mechanism of the state.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: Learyfan]
    #1951689 - 09/25/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
He's not pro-government empowerment. Noone gives it to "the man" harder than Moore does.








On a silver platter you mean?


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
Sober Surfer
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: Autonomous]
    #1951716 - 09/25/03 06:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"I call gun control pro-government empowerment, for it takes away tools of self defense from the citizens. With all the bad things that the state has done in the past, it is foolish to trust it further. But politics is generally not about what is wise or what is right, it is about some people advancing THEIR agenda, what THEY think is the best way for others to live and forcing their fellow man to abide by it via the coercive mechanism of the state."


aren't you being a little hypocritical? aren't you just putting negative labels like "anti-freedom" and "pro-government empowerment" on political views that oppose yours so that that you can further your own political agenda which is making moore look bad and making guns appear patriotic?



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Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell; spirituality is for those who have been there.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: lysergic]
    #1951752 - 09/25/03 06:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lysergic said:
What a fat lying hebe. If a liar says that his lies are true, hes just lying more.



Prove it. Debunk the claims of this article if you're so certain he's lying.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Moore hits back [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1952015 - 09/25/03 08:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JonnyOnTheSpot said:
aren't you being a little hypocritical?



No, not at all. I am being consistent, I have expressed no desire to initiate force against my fellow man or to utilize the coercive mechanism of the state for an agenda. If I was pro-gun control, that would make me a hypocrite. Please tell me why mistrust of the state should be suspended when it comes to gun control.

Quote:

aren't you just putting negative labels like "anti-freedom" and "pro-government empowerment" on political views that oppose yours so that that you can further your own political agenda which is making moore look bad and making guns appear patriotic?



No, I'm just telling the truth. If the truth appears as 'putting negative labels' on concepts to you, then perhaps you need to re-examine your political premises

Why don't you LOGICALLY tell me how limiting someone's freedom with gun control is not anti-freedom?

Why don't you tell me how giving the government more power to confiscate peaceful citizens' property is not "pro-government empowerment?"

Please LOGICALLY explain to me how increasing government power would not be increasing government power.

Moore does not need my help to look bad. He is an irrational fear monger.

What makes you think that I am trying to make guns appear patriotic? Is it because I value freedom over false promises of security? Would you say the same thing if we were discussing freedom of religion? Would you say the same thing if we were discussing freedom of speech? Would you say the same thing if we were discussing freedom to use the drugs of your choice? Would you say the same thing if we were discussing sexual freedom including the freedom of prostitution? Would you say the same thing if we were discussing the freedom to keep your own money so you wouldn't be forced to support the promotion of U.S. corporations overseas? Would you say the same thing if we were discussing the freedom to keep your own money so you wouldn't be forced to support dictatorial regimes in foreign countries? For on all these issues and more, I come down on the side of freedom. If that appears patriotic, then I stand guilty as charged.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Moore hits back [Re: lysergic]
    #1952091 - 09/25/03 08:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What a fat lying hebe. If a liar says that his lies are true, hes just lying more.
 



Hebe? you mean a hebrew? He's not hebrew.Kike is the more appropriate form of repudiation and anti-semitism should you care to educate your trailer trash honkey ass bullshit excuse for a brain.
Oh and rotfalmao about the lying liars, suck it up white boy we be fuckin you out of existance with our swarthy good looks.Nothin' a plain white wrapper likes better than a tan on a man.See ya lysergic you cute lil endangered subspecies you.

PS I apologize to others but racism is no longer tolerated and will be spanked from the practitioners quickly and effectively.
WR:rasta: 


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To old for this place


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Moore hits back [Re: Edame]
    #1952248 - 09/25/03 09:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

First of all,I don't agree with everything Moore says in Bowling For Columbine and I'm not too familar with his other work,but I knew most of the shit thrown at Moore was just that-shit.I was actually going to place a rebuttal of the attacks against Bowling For Columbine,but I didn't feel like writing a nine page paper that I would have to back up with sources that I didn't have the time to find.

If you go to just about any anti Moore website,90% of the time it's just repeated ad hominem attacks like "Moore is so fat" from NRA members. I don't even think most of his critics even bothered to watch the movie,but just launched hear-say at him.

That said,some of the things in the movie are somewhat misleading,but they are opinions ,Moore did not lie or make up anything. So the people that claimed he didn't deserve to get documentary awards because he made it up are full of shit.

Like one thing in the movie was when Moore went to a plane at a military base and he said the plack proudly read that it was used to kill people on Christmas.It actually read something like "This plane was used on bombing runs on Christmas eve in Vietnam". While I think the way he stated it was misleading (he doesn't cover this in that article),the plane used in that particular mission caused a huge amount of civilian casualties.

Moore is far from perfect,but is not an evil lyer like the right make him out to be. And contrary to what many people claim,it was not soley an anti gun movie.His main point was that this country is full of hysteria.

You Moore bashers would actually get a lot more credibility if most of you actually watched the movie.I'll make a deal,I'll read an Ann Coulter (sp?) book if a prominent righty (Luv,Shakta,Wingnut,Lysergic,etc.) watches Bowling For Columbine.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Moore hits back [Re: monoamine]
    #1952266 - 09/25/03 09:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'll make a deal,I'll read an Ann Coulter (sp?) book if a prominent righty (Luv,Shakta,Wingnut,Lysergic,etc.) watches Bowling For Columbine.



If one of them actually does bother to watch it, then I pity you.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Re: Moore hits back [Re: silversoul7]
    #1952317 - 09/25/03 09:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I figure that's more than fair. They would have to watch a two hour movie which they can rent for $5 or so,while I would have to read a five hundred page book that would take a week and costs like $15.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Re: Moore hits back [Re: monoamine]
    #1952336 - 09/25/03 09:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I know. That's why I pity you. It's hard enough for me to get motivated to read any book, especially Ann Coulter.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Re: Moore hits back [Re: monoamine]
    #1952386 - 09/25/03 10:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Is it ok if I download it and don't pay?


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