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OfflineLearyfan
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10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film
    #2710531 - 05/21/04 12:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Source



10 REASONS BUSH WANTS TO BAN MOORE FILM

May 20 2004

..like it could make him lose the next election

By Ryan Parry


A NEW film is sending shockwaves through the United States in general and the White House in particular - and it hasn't even been released yet.

Fahrenheit 9/11, which this week got the longest standing ovation in Cannes Film Festival history, tells what its director Michael Moore sees as the truth behind the war in Iraq and on terror.

It is said to be so powerful it could tip November's US presidential election against George W Bush. As Moore says: "We were able to get film crews embedded with American troops without them knowing it was Michael Moore. They are totally f***ed."

Disney has refused to distribute the film in the States, saying its content could upset the presidential elections. Moore says that's precisely why the public should see it.

These are the 10 killer questions the film poses.

1, AFTER the 9/11 attacks, why was the only plane to fly out of the US carrying 24 members of Osama bin Laden's family?

IN the wake of the attacks, the US became a no-fly zone. Moore asks: "Why did Bush allow a private Saudi jet to fly around the US in the days after September 11 to pick up members of the bin Laden family and fly them out of the country without a proper FBI investigation? Might it have been possible that at least one of the 24 bin Ladens would have known something?"

2, ARE the media covering up abuse of Iraqi prisoners and the disillusionment of American troops?

MOORE'S film shows soldiers hooding and mistreating Iraqi detainees, and even shows troops taking it in turns to sexually abuse a drunk elderly man.

He says: "This occurred outside the Abu Ghraib prison walls. The media is there every single day. Why haven't they seen this? I don't think we've heard American soldiers in the field talk as they do in this film about their disillusionment and their despair; about their questioning of what was going on."

3, IS Bush deliberately creating a culture of fear to get poor American youth to fight his war?

MOORE accuses the Bush administration of deliberately creating a climate of fear, particularly by the instigation of the Department of Homeland Security, to increase numbers signing up for the armed forces. He calls this "the immoral act of sending kids to war on the basis of a lie".

4, HOW deep does the connection between the Bush family and bin Laden family actually run?

MOORE exposes business links between the bin Ladens and the Bushes over the last 25 years. Bush Snr became a highly paid consultant for the Carlyle Group, one of the nation's largest defence contractors. One of the investors in Carlyle - to the tune of at least $2million (?1.2m) - was the bin Laden family.

The campaigner says: "The bin Laden family have extensive dealings with large companies in the US. They have donated $2m to Bush's alma mater, Harvard. They own property in Texas, Florida and Massachusetts. In short, they have their hands deep in our pants."

5, JUST how sinister was the White House's doctoring of Bush's military record?

MOORE suggests that, far from being simply an exercise in proving that Bush attended to his Texas Air National Guard duties, the White House version also sought to hide evidence that Bush and his associates had close ties with various Saudi oil companies. He also suggests that a former military pal of Bush's, James R Bath, once sold a plane to the bin Laden family.

6, DID Bush miss an opportunity to nail bin Laden during secret talks with the Taliban?

MOORE claims that while Bush was governor of Texas he built a relationship with the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan. They met in Texas to discuss a project to build a natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and into Pakistan.

Representatives of the Bush administration met the Taliban in the summer of 2001. Moore says they ignored the bin Laden issue and were pre-occupied with oil. He asks: "Was Bush discussing their offer to hand over bin Laden? Was he threatening them with force? Was he discussing a new pipeline?"

7, WHY does the Bush family have a "special relationship" with the Saudi royal family?

"MORE than 1.5 million barrels of oil needed in the US daily from the Saudis could vanish on a royal whim, so we begin to see how not only Bush, but all of us, are dependent on the House of Saud," says Moore. "This can't be good for national security."

Moore also refers to Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador to the US, who is nicknamed Bandar Bush because of his close links with the president. Despite increasing evidence linking the September 11 atrocity to Saudi militants, Bush still met Prince Bandar for dinner two days later.

8, WAS Bush spending too much time on holiday to concentrate on terrorism?

BUSH was on holiday for 42 per cent of the eight months before September 11, letting his guard down, according to Moore. At a 9/11 commission hearing, CIA director George Tenet admitted he had known since August 2001 that Zacarias Moussaoui, the only man charged in connection with 9/11, had been taking lessons on how to fly a 747. Tenet claimed he didn't tell Bush because the president, "was on vacation".

9, DID Bush panic when he was told about the attack on the twin towers?

ON the morning of September 11, President Bush was posing for cameras at a children's literacy event in Florida.

Moore has previously unseen footage showing the rabbit-in-car-headlights expression on the president's face when he is told about the second plane hitting the twin towers.

A stopwatch appears in the corner of the screen, as the minutes tick by and the president keeps reading My Pet Goat, not knowing what to do without his advisers to tell him.

Moore says: "Was Bush thinking he should have taken reports the CIA had given him the month before more seriously? That he had been told al-Qaeda was planning attacks in the US and planes would possibly be used. Or was he scared witless?"

10, DID Bush manipulate the major US media companies to fix his 2000 election win?

BUSH'S cousin John Ellis, a Fox News executive, was instrumental in "calling it" for Bush/Cheney on election night and cowed the other networks into joining in. This confusion helped set the scene for the debacle that ended in his election despite Al Gore winning the popular majority.

At the start of Fahrenheit 9/11, the major players are seen smirking and preening themselves. "Here they are," Moore narrates, "the whole corrupt gang who fixed the 2000 election."




I gotta see this movie!




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Offlinephi1618
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2710543 - 05/21/04 12:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Our dealings with the Saudis are corrupting our government, but we can't finish them because of our addiction to foreign oil.

I want to see this film, now, but I don't know if it'll have a significant impact on those who consider Moore "that fat liar".


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: phi1618]
    #2710568 - 05/21/04 12:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

No, those people have made up their minds. They'll see the movie and not believe that the Bush's have such strong Saudi connections.





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Offlinephi1618
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2710634 - 05/21/04 12:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So, has anybody found it online yet?


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: phi1618]
    #2710648 - 05/21/04 12:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

phi1618 said:
So, has anybody found it online yet?




I don't know. I'm not into downloading movies. I wouldn't think that movie would be available online yet. It hasn't even made it to the theaters.






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OfflineSeussA
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2710675 - 05/21/04 01:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> why was the only plane to fly out of the US carrying 24 members of Osama bin Laden's family

This isn't true. I personally know of one other non-military plane that was flying that day (with permission) which had nothing to do with bin Laden's family


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2711162 - 05/21/04 02:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

First I want to say that I just last weekend I finally saw "Bowling for Columbine."  I have no problem admitting that it seems that many "conservatives" improperly interpreted that movie as pro gun control.  In fact, I think he raised an extremely important question.  Had he focused on that main topic and remained truthful, I would have actually been impressed. However, he didn't disappoint my perception of him.  And unlike those who claim Bush lied, it's very easy to prove that he did.  The cartoon about the history of America for example said that we went over and kidnapped the African slaves.

But let's examine this article with it's  reasons .

1, AFTER the 9/11 attacks, why was the only plane to fly out of the US carrying 24 members of Osama bin Laden's family?

They were interviewed by the FBI, but this was still a bad idea.

2, ARE the media covering up abuse of Iraqi prisoners and the disillusionment of American troops?

Obviously not true.  It's been widely reported that this is  possibly systemic and widespread.  However, though abuse appears to have taken place, what most of those in disagreement with me claim is abuse, isn't.

3, IS Bush deliberately creating a culture of fear to get poor American youth to fight his war? 

Hmm, in his last film it was the media that was creating this culture of fear. 

Poor American youth?  Poor to Michael Moore?  Pat Tillman certainly wasn't poor.  I don't believe that a large majority of those enlisting come from what would be considered poor families.  Though I don't have proof, does he?

And how does the Dept. of Homeland Security deliberately create this culture?

4, HOW deep does the connection between the Bush family and bin Laden family actually run?

First, hasn't Osama renounced his family and they him?  They have a close relationship with the Saudi family whom I believe Osama hates nearly as much as us. 

Secondly, the bin Laden family is obviously very wealthy.  Is it uncommon for wealthy families to know each other and have business dealings together?  Is it illegal?

5, JUST how sinister was the White House's doctoring of Bush's military record?

MOORE suggests that, far from being simply an exercise in proving that Bush attended to his Texas Air National Guard duties, the White House version also sought to hide evidence that Bush and his associates had close ties with various Saudi oil companies.

Since when do military records contain a person's resume?  It was released to prove that Bush had fulfilled his required obligations. 

Why is it so suspicious that a person whose family was already in the oil business had dealings with oil companies? 

He also suggests that a former military pal of Bush's, James R Bath, once sold a plane to the bin Laden family.

OH DEAR GOD!!! Do you mean to tell me that an airplane broker sold a plane?  THE OUTRAGE!!!  :mad2:

6, DID Bush miss an opportunity to nail bin Laden during secret talks with the Taliban?   

What representitives?  Though discussing plans for a pipeline is certainly permissable no?  He really doesn't know what they were talking about, but accuses wrongdoing anyway to further his portrayal of Bush.

7, WHY does the Bush family have a "special relationship" with the Saudi royal family?

Because they can.  And as he said, we are dependent on them like it or not.  If the Saudi's are indeed trying to "stab us in the back", why would we alienate them especially since they are so crucial.  The "keep you enemies closer" doctrine.

8, WAS Bush spending too much time on holiday to concentrate on terrorism?

Though there really isn't much of anything that he can do in Washington that he can't in Texas and I certainly don't believe it hindered his ability concentrate on terrorism, he should have probably spent more time in Washington.

9, DID Bush panic when he was told about the attack on the twin towers?

A stopwatch appears in the corner of the screen, as the minutes tick by and the president keeps reading My Pet Goat, not knowing what to do without his advisers to tell him.

What a load of shit!  Didn't he have a kid in his lap?  He should have thrown the kid down along with the book screamed "I gotta go" as he sprinted for the exit. 

In a crisis situation a leader should stay calm and collected.  People were already in a huge panic and having the president freak out wouldn't have helped. 

10, DID Bush manipulate the major US media companies to fix his 2000 election win? 

Yeah, the media is the final say on the outcome of elections. 

This election argument is so demonstratably wrong that I pity those who still believe it.


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Anonymous

Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2711249 - 05/21/04 02:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

As usual, Moore is barking up the wrong tree.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2711440 - 05/21/04 03:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps you could show us a linik showing that Bush has actually said he wants to ban the flick?

Or is that mere speculation by the author, who I might add..... seems to have drank a little too much before writing the article?



Really Learyfan. Are you so desperate to bash Bush? Granted, the guy is a schmuck, but the hyperbole in that article stinks worse than the floor in a NYC adult shop.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2711445 - 05/21/04 03:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Nicely done.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2711557 - 05/21/04 04:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

stinks worse than the floor in a NYC adult shop

watch out hemingway!

to the rest...

if moore was smart, he'd start serving this up on a
couple FTP and BT sites...

you want to start a real movement, get this movie
out there by any means necessary.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2711573 - 05/21/04 04:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I've been waiting for this movie to come out ever since I saw Moore on Conan.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: Learyfan]
    #2711751 - 05/21/04 04:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I have to say myself im very curious about this movie.


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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2711801 - 05/21/04 05:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

9, DID Bush panic when he was told about the attack on the twin towers?

A stopwatch appears in the corner of the screen, as the minutes tick by and the president keeps reading My Pet Goat, not knowing what to do without his advisers to tell him.


What a load of shit! Didn't he have a kid in his lap? He should have thrown the kid down along with the book screamed "I gotta go" as he sprinted for the exit.

In a crisis situation a leader should stay calm and collected. People were already in a huge panic and having the president freak out wouldn't have helped.


while I wholeheartedly agree with much of your critique, no, I don't
believe there was a kid on his lap nor do I think that matters. The
president of the united states did not act, he entered the school
knowing the first plane had hit and continued to sit there after the
second one struck. That's the most grievous failure of US leadership
that I can possibly think of....all because what? some kids might get
upset?

9/11 made a mockery of United States civil air defense.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: afoaf]
    #2711817 - 05/21/04 05:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

he entered the school knowing the first plane had hit and continued to sit there after the second one struck.



I didn't realize it was standard practise for presidents to rush to the scene of plane crashes.


Quote:

9/11 made a mockery of United States civil air defense.



True.... to a point. Had any of those planes been shot down the screams from the leftist media would still be echoing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlined33p
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: afoaf]
    #2711920 - 05/21/04 05:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
he entered the school knowing the first plane had hit





You sure? I thought i remembered seeing on the video that both hit while he was with the kiddies.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2711922 - 05/21/04 05:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

pure speculation, and highly doubtful if at least one had
struck it's target, making clear what their intentions were.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: afoaf]
    #2711949 - 05/21/04 05:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
pure speculation



Of course it's speculation as it didn't happen. I thought that went without saying. I'd take it as a bet though, if it were possible.


Quote:

, and highly doubtful if at least one had
struck it's target, making clear what their intentions were.



Of course, perhaps had one of the scumbags on the first plane gotten on the radio and shouted Allah Akbar right after the highjacking, things would have been a bit more clear.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2711980 - 05/21/04 06:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

well the time it took them to scramble jets is the big failure, not the fact that the planes weren't shot down.

actually, wasn't there a theory that the last plane was shot down? I clearly remember news reporters claiming that wreckage was being found many miles from the "crash site" That was right after the event, only in the days afterward did the story change to "brave americans overtook the terrorists" The wreckage that was being found all over the state was never mentioned again in the media. I clearly remember this, and i know reporters can be wrong, but there were multiple stations reporting the same thing.

anyone else remember that?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: 10 Reasons Bush wants to ban Moore film [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2712001 - 05/21/04 06:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

well the time it took them to scramble jets is the big failure,



True enough. I agreed with afoaf on that one.


Quote:

actually, wasn't there a theory that the last plane was shot down?



Yup, but it was never proven to be true. And there were quite a few crackpot theories bout that day. One need only look at the first post in this thread to see that.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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