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Offlinefft2
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Registered: 06/15/04
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New York times Fact checks Moore
    #2837108 - 06/28/04 07:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/movies...artner=USERLAND

Mr. Moore is on firm ground in arguing that the Bushes, like many prominent Texas families with oil interests, have profited handsomely from their relationships with prominent Saudis, including members of the royal family and of the large and fabulously wealthy bin Laden clan, which has insisted it long ago disowned Osama. Mr. Moore spends several minutes in the film documenting ties between the president and James R. Bath, a financial advisor to a prominent member of the bin Laden family who was an original investor in Mr. Bush's Arbusto energy company and who served with the future president in the Air National Guard in the early 1970's. The Bath friendship, which indirectly links Mr. Bush to the family of the world's most notorious terrorist, has received less attention from national news organization than it has from reporters in Texas, but it has been well documented.

Mr. Moore charges that President Bush and his aides paid too little attention to warnings in the summer of 2001 that Al Qaeda was about to attack, including a detailed Aug. 6, 2001, C.I.A. briefing that warned of terrorism within the country's borders. In its final report next month, the Sept. 11 commission can be expected to offer support to this assertion. Mr. Moore says that instead of focusing on Al Qaeda, the president spent 42 percent of his first eight months in office on vacation; the figure came not from a conspiracy-hungry Web site but from a calculation by The Washington Post.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: fft2]
    #2837164 - 06/28/04 07:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Unfortunately for Moore, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him.

Yet gullible sheep flock to his films.

Puzzling.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837237 - 06/28/04 08:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

can you point me to any source that can prove
that Moore has lied about the points he makes
in the movie, Mr. McBitterson?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2837328 - 06/28/04 08:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I read the Times every day and I don't recall this review nor do I recognize the name Phillip Shenon. As to Moore lies and obfuscations see Christopher Hitchens' article from another thread (Pinky linked it and Hitchens is a lib).


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2837355 - 06/28/04 08:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sure. Soon as you show me where in my post I referred to his current film.

You need to pay "moore" attention.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837366 - 06/28/04 08:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Unfortunately for Moore, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him.

that statement, given the title line of the thread... would seem to imply that you were referring to his current film.

if you weren't referring to his latest film, you had me fooled as well.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: ]
    #2837393 - 06/28/04 08:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Read it a bit closer. You'll see I (deliberately) made no mention of his current movie. I haven't seen it and as such don't know if it's as full of shit as the last.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837459 - 06/28/04 09:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just like Bush never saaaaaaaiiid that Iraq was an "imminent" threat, right?






--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  The Looking Glasses - Visions



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Learyfan]
    #2837528 - 06/28/04 09:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Did he?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837575 - 06/28/04 10:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031103.html
http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2003_11_09_archive.html

there's a couple interesting pieces on the matter.

though, there is the argument that while there was no
literal mention of the phrase, 87% of americans (USA Today)
walked away from the table believing that iraq posed an
imminent threat to the US.

whether that's creditable to the administration's skill at
plausibly deniable doublespeak or americans poor listening
comprehension is debatable.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2837582 - 06/28/04 10:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
can you point me to any source that can prove
that Moore has lied about the points he makes
in the movie, Mr. McBitterson?




Try this

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

and another

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39079

Keep admiring this guy. He obviously has no problem with the actions of Hezbollah. I guess he has no problem with organizations that want to kill every Jew on the planet.



Edited by Bush2004 (06/28/04 10:33 PM)


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837585 - 06/28/04 10:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Daniel Ledeen...a budding journalist with a summer internship at the Washington bureau of The New York Sun, wangled an admission to the Washington event of the day... the Michael Moore press conference.

Young Ledeen then asked the toughest question to the muckraking (or muckslinging) filmmaker, depending on your POV. To wit, he asked the budding mogul what he thought of Hezbollah being involved in the distribution of Fahrenheit 911. "Shockingly," Moore shined him on with some comment about some people believing there were Martians on Earth (or the equivalent). But Ledeen came armed with a follow-up, having phoned Moore's distributor who had already affirmed the rumor. Then the "courageous documentarian" simply stonewalled and changed the subject. So it goes

Roger L Simon


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837637 - 06/28/04 10:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Try this
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

and another

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39079

Keep admiring this guy. He obviously has no problem with the actions of Hezbollah. I guess he has no problem with organizations that want to kill every Jew on the planet.






keep admiring bush, he has no problem killing millions for a little green, demonizing several million potheads as terrorists... did you read the first piece you posted... some jackass that is more interested in hearing himself talk than making a report, a serious slant that starts "One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left"

so what is the right of america... those that blindly follow without question.

here, have a review of the review(er)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/lieshitchens.html



Edited by Prisoner#1 (06/28/04 11:05 PM)


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2837712 - 06/28/04 11:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Unfortunately for Moore, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him.

Yet gullible sheep flock to his films.

Puzzling.




Unfortunately for our country and our notions of free speech, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him for reasons that can never be properly explained by anyone who holds this opinion. When questioned about the presupposed "lies", Moore's opponents usually burst into ad hominem attacks about his weight.

And yet, open minded people keep flocking to his films.

Puzzling.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #2837715 - 06/28/04 11:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I see... so Bush has killed millions now.

Yep Michael Moore is an objective source.

I can post dozens of articles that discredit most of the movie. The 911 comission has refuted the Sauds on the planes.

Do you thinks it a good thing that Hezbollah is distributing this film.


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837724 - 06/28/04 11:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So we've gone from "Hezbollah endorses F 9/11" to "Micheal Moore has no problem with the actions of Hezbollah" to "Hezbollah is distributing the film"...

Seriously...


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2838088 - 06/29/04 01:31 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

no thinking allowed.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2838119 - 06/29/04 01:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Daniel Ledeen...a budding journalist with a summer internship at the Washington bureau of The New York Sun, wangled an admission to the Washington event of the day... the Michael Moore press conference.

Young Ledeen then asked the toughest question to the muckraking (or muckslinging) filmmaker, depending on your POV. To wit, he asked the budding mogul what he thought of Hezbollah being involved in the distribution of Fahrenheit 911. "Shockingly," Moore shined him on with some comment about some people believing there were Martians on Earth (or the equivalent). But Ledeen came armed with a follow-up, having phoned Moore's distributor who had already affirmed the rumor. Then the "courageous documentarian" simply stonewalled and changed the subject. So it goes

Roger L Simon




read that again.

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore. Similar to the Useful Idiots back during the cold war. Stalin loved them.


Moore's own words


write "pretend" because Moore understands, from first-hand experience, the protections enjoyed by opinion journalists. On This Week, Moore described Fahrenheit 9/11 as "an op-ed piece. It's my opinion about the last four years of the Bush administration. And that's what I call it. I'm not trying to pretend that this is some sort of, you know, fair and balanced work of journalism. ?" Later in the interview, he called the movie "a comedy, too." In other words, he knows that nobody is likely to get very far by suing him for his opinions, as expressed in Fahrenheit 9/11. Since he clearly understands the law, it's plain that if we take Moore at his word, he appears to believe in free speech only for himself.


Michael Moore's hysterical, empty threats.
By Jack Shafer


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2838127 - 06/29/04 01:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore.




so?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Vvellum]
    #2838130 - 06/29/04 01:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore.




so?




--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2838188 - 06/29/04 01:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Fortunately for Moore, his reputation as a lTrueful actavist for the common man precedes him.

Yet gullible sheep Listen to right wing claims of him being a lieing sack of shit.

Puzzling.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2838655 - 06/29/04 05:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Right, as your article confirms, Bush didn't.


Quote:

whether that's creditable to the administration's skill at
plausibly deniable doublespeak or americans poor listening
comprehension is debatable.



Actually, I'd vote for a parroting of the phrase by the media. You know, our left leaning media flunkies.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2839227 - 06/29/04 11:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2839910 - 06/29/04 03:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It's true, people leaving the movie think Michael Moore is an anchor from fox news.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2839996 - 06/29/04 03:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore.




'The enemy' loves guys like Bush.


they share a symbiotic demagoguery.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2840702 - 06/29/04 06:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Unfortunately for our country and our notions of free speech, his reputation as a lying sack of shit precedes him for reasons that can never be properly explained by anyone who holds this opinion. When questioned about the presupposed "lies", Moore's opponents usually burst into ad hominem attacks about his weight.




I haven't seen F911, nor will I pay to see it. I did see bowling for columbine, however. I also saw the brilliant editing, by Moore, which equates to a lie in my book. I can take five different posts of yours, tie a single line from each post together, and make you look like a total schmuck... or the next savior of the world... both of which would be lies. Context is everything... and Moore does his best to take things out of context to make his point...

I have never once attacked his weight. I haven't heard a single person that attacked Moores films make comments about his weight. The only people that seem concerned about his weight are the people that like him and seem to think that everybody else hates him because of his weight... sorry, weight has nothing to do with it... ethics have everything to do with it.

Finally, why does everybody have to be either a Moore Lover or a Bush Lover? I dislike both for very simliar reasons... they have identical ethics within their chosen occupation.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2840903 - 06/29/04 07:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore.




'The enemy' loves guys like Bush.


they share a symbiotic demagoguery.




And Moore is not a demagog? At least Bush and Al Qaeda don't share the same talking points.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2840929 - 06/29/04 07:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I guess Moore used trick photography and/or editing and/or lies to show Bush sitting stunned for 9 minutes (or whatever) as the Twin Towers burned. Well he was reading that captivating pet goat story...

He must have also used ventriloquism when Bushes own words contradicted himself.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (06/29/04 11:15 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Swami]
    #2841415 - 06/29/04 11:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you'd be amazed at the camera trickery he's capable of!

I'm curious about specific examples of cheating via edits
and/or ommitting contextual information...

anything specific, anyone?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: Seuss]
    #2841723 - 06/30/04 12:45 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisiblechinadoll
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: fft2]
    #2841845 - 06/30/04 01:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No One knows what it was like unless you actually where and when all the shit went down. I'm not talking about living in Jersey... I don't live in manhattan...but in 1 of the 5 boroughs and it was fucking scary. Was Mr. Moore there at the time? If he was then he has a right to comment on his own feelings, otherwise.....well you all get my drift...you had to be there to understand it


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: chinadoll]
    #2841902 - 06/30/04 01:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Understand what? the september 11th attacks? First of all that makes up about 20% of what the movie is about. 2nd, If the war was waged against Hong kong would you chime in and say "you had to be there to understand?".



P.S- I know you wrote this just to let us all know that you are closer to the tragedy and therefore more informed than any of us as a whole about why the U.S is at war.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: chinadoll]
    #2841934 - 06/30/04 01:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisiblechinadoll
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: ]
    #2841939 - 06/30/04 01:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No one know what it was actually like unless they were here


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2841986 - 06/30/04 01:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore. 




'The enemy' loves guys like Bush. 


they share a symbiotic demagoguery.




And Moore is not a demagog? At least Bush and Al Qaeda don't share the same talking points.




all I'm saying is this: 

Osama bin laden gets people to follow him because those people are afraid of Bush. 

Bush gets people to follow him because those people are afraid of Osama bin Laden. 

They really have a nice arrangement worked out, don't they?  :wink:

Osama and Bush have really done a lot for eachother, at least in terms of the psychological manipulation of their respective constituencies.  I don't think either one would hold as much sway with that many people if it weren't for the other. 

Although I will admit moore is a demagogue, I do believe he has much better motives than most of the people who also use his tactics (including many politicians of both left and right descent).  However, your comment about moore didn't have anything to do with my comment about Bush and Osama's obvious butt buddy-ism.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: fft2]
    #2842097 - 06/30/04 02:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If the enemy loves anyone its Bush not moore. Bush is a religious nut just like the so called enemy and he is exactly what they need to fire up their holly war and keep it going


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: chinadoll]
    #2842925 - 06/30/04 10:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chinadoll said:
No One knows what it was like unless you actually where and when all the shit went down. I'm not talking about living in Jersey... I don't live in manhattan...but in 1 of the 5 boroughs and it was fucking scary. Was Mr. Moore there at the time? If he was then he has a right to comment on his own feelings, otherwise.....well you all get my drift...you had to be there to understand it




I live in Queens. It was the most terrible day of my life. I still have nightmnares about it. We thought one of my cousins was dead for over 5 hours until she finally showed up. 2 guys I hung out with in high school did die. Both worked for Cantor Fitzgerald.


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: ]
    #2842934 - 06/30/04 10:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fiend said:
Quote:

I haven't seen F911, nor will I pay to see it. I did see bowling for columbine, however. I also saw the brilliant editing, by Moore, which equates to a lie in my book. I can take five different posts of yours, tie a single line from each post together, and make you look like a total schmuck... or the next savior of the world... both of which would be lies. Context is everything... and Moore does his best to take things out of context to make his point...






Absolute bullshit. Seriously.

The stuff taken out of context was more for comedic value than anything I thought. It certainly doesn't change any of the facts at the basis of the film and nothing will. Did the Bush administration release an EDITED copy of W's military record with that other name blacked out (you know, the one with the guy who managed the Bin Laden's money or whatever). Did Bush sit there like a dumbass waiting for someone to tell him what to do on 9/11 or did he not? Moore himself called it "a bit of a comedy." So maybe he skillfully makes them look like retards, so what - is anyone here able to actually refute with evidence the factual claims the movie makes, rather than simply dismissing every aspect of it because of the slanted style? Of course not. So while plenty of evidence is plainly laid out for everyone to look at for yourselves, you refuse to, for reasons beyond me.

And if you really don't like either of them, great, but I think the repurcussions of the actions of one of them seem a lot more negative to me. From your own point of view, wouldn't you rather have someone with the 'ethics' you speak of running around making movies instead of running a country?





Read this

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Then tell me about how honest a guy MM is.


Edited by Bush2004 (06/30/04 10:30 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: fft2]
    #2843161 - 06/30/04 12:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i'm not a Moore fan but wouldn't the New York Times checking for accuracies be kind of like Saddam Husain looking for human rights violations?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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Offlinekotik
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: fft2]
    #2844399 - 06/30/04 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

IMHO, Moore played it safe with this movie. There are soooo many things he could have gone into, but he focused only on the things that were public knowledge, and could be found by any credible source.

He doesn't even appear in this movie, it's all footage, most of it exclusive. It's basically a long documentary of Bush clips, with Michael Moore as narrator, so of course his opinions are all over the place, but he doesn't make any kinds of outrageous claims, only asks why no one else was asking the president about some of this stuff.


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Offlineblu3
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2844511 - 06/30/04 07:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Quote:

afoaf said:
can you point me to any source that can prove
that Moore has lied about the points he makes
in the movie, Mr. McBitterson?




Try this

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

and another

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39079

Keep admiring this guy. He obviously has no problem with the actions of Hezbollah. I guess he has no problem with organizations that want to kill every Jew on the planet.






I read both of those articals neither one of them said he or his fim were in acurate. The first one *implied* the film was untruthful with the quote "To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability."

In the second artical also does not prove anything moore stated to be false eaither.
Both articals are opinion and not factual.
Try again!


Sir, if you have ever taken the time to read his books or watch his movies you will be able to easily back up the fact by simply searching google. I'll admit I have not taken the time to do that will all his works but I did fact check about 90% of Stupid White Men


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: blu3]
    #2844552 - 06/30/04 07:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

exactly, no one seems to be able to show me
where his facts or claims are off.

the best I've seen is some griping about editing
the NRA rallies to seem exponentially more
menacing than they are....


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlineblu3
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: kotik]
    #2844554 - 06/30/04 07:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
IMHO, Moore played it safe with this movie. There are soooo many things he could have gone into, but he focused only on the things that were public knowledge, and could be found by any credible source.

He doesn't even appear in this movie, it's all footage, most of it exclusive. It's basically a long documentary of Bush clips, with Michael Moore as narrator, so of course his opinions are all over the place, but he doesn't make any kinds of outrageous claims, only asks why no one else was asking the president about some of this stuff.




I also believe this movie is all fact because Number one its released in an election year critizing our current president so I believe the Republican party and the bush family would already have a slew of their own fact checkers re-checking moores material and claims.
If there was any untruths in the film we'd have known about before the realese of the movie.
So far, noone in this thread have provided creditable evidence that are any untrue claims in F911


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: fft2]
    #2844871 - 06/30/04 09:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)



Edited by Divided_Sky (06/30/04 09:51 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2845092 - 06/30/04 10:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

none of those articles amount to much more
than critiques of his editing style.

where are the factual errors?

where are the lies?

national review starts in with...

Faulty reasoning, slim evidence, outright foolish statements, nothing slows him down. The film has a number of factual errors, and the 9/11 Commission, which he portrays sympathetically, has since undercut some of the pillars of his major arguments.

but doesn't bother elaborating on the supposed factual
errors or the pillars that have been undercut.

I don't get it....what am I missing here?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: afoaf]
    #2845265 - 06/30/04 11:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Forget it, dude... the simple fact is that they cannot provide you the evidence to prove their claims of "factual errors" or "lies" or "misinformation". Hell... most of em have never even bothered to watch the fucking movies themselves.

The minute someone wants to debate me on that philosophical points made by Moore in his films as opposed to these little sematic arguements about what word was placed where and what was and wasn't implied by this scene or that one... THEN we can have a discussion. Until then... well... I've got shit to do.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Bush2004]
    #2845811 - 07/01/04 02:51 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The enemy loves guys like Michael Moore.


Kinda like the Nazis loved Bush's grand daddie for investing his money in their economy.......


--------------------
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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Skikid16]
    #2845826 - 07/01/04 02:55 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

why would the enemy love moore when they gave money to george bush and his family and freinds fund them. i think they love bush, we pretty much have a president that has the intrest of saudis in mind not americans


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: New York times Fact checks Moore [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2848213 - 07/01/04 06:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
i'm not a Moore fan but wouldn't the New York Times checking for accuracies be kind of like Saddam Husain looking for human rights violations?



Not at all.

Saddam would at least stand a chance of being right.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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