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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: DieCommie]
    #2903467 -

No suicides though, and in the case that you mentioned, it is still a (pseudo-religious) political belief system being imposed upon another.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Swami]
    #2903539 -

You still don't get it. If a tool performs a job efficiently then you keep using it. I don't care if an expert in tools says that the tool is poorly designed...if it is working for me and it is the best tool that I can find I will keep using it. Beliefs are tools. They can do good or evil. Even your beliefs about the concrete nature of your reality are incomplete assumptions due to the inadequacy of your senses, but they are the tools you have been given so you use them. You are not only missing the forest for the trees, but you are standing so close to the tree all you see is a little bark. Such is the nature of our understanding of the universe.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2903964 -

If a tool performs a job efficiently then you keep using it. I don't care if an expert in tools says that the tool is poorly designed...if it is working for me and it is the best tool that I can find I will keep using it.

You can go home from work and travel 10 miles in a circuitous route (which works) or drive directly home only 5 miles (which works even better). Adding the unnecessary extra travel and time does nothing.

Likewise, I can drive safely and soberly and obey the traffic laws for the sake of safety, or I can drive sloppily while putting my faith in a Virgin Mary statuette on my dash. I will bet HEAVILY on the former for a better safety record.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Swami]
    #2903986 -

Beleifs inspire us. This is no less efficient than being inspired by anything else so that argument don't cut it. Inspiration is required for motivation. Motivation is required for the proper action. This is not about a measurable phenomenon so using measurements (miles) in the analogy is irrelevant. You are assuming (read ASSUMING=make->ass->out of->you->me)that your method is more efficient when you really don't know.

Faith will not keep you safe...the spirit can take us at any time. Only care and safe standards will keep us safe. Prayer might inspire one to be more careful though. The Christians do say God only helps those that help themselves. In this context faith and prayer are completely practical and relevant activities.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Swami]
    #2904106 -

where does it say atheists believe in the big bang?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: kaiowas]
    #2904180 -

Athiests (rational materialists) generally believe in cause and effect - and the Big Bang does seem a probable "cause" for our universe. Of course, before that, nothing can be said.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Swami]
    #2904198 -

Many religiously oriented people believe in the Big-Bang. According to Christians God said "Let there be light" and I bet the Big Bang made a lot of it. Now, though, the Big-Bang is considered mostly irrelevant as what happened before the universe came into being has no effect on the universe now. It must be said that even rational materialists don't really have a clue about the true nature and laws of our universe. We are just glimpsing the edge.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2904200 -

(read ASSUMING=make->ass->out of->you->me)
Very deep. Is this third-grade?

You are assuming that your method is more efficient when you really don't know.
I explained it mathematically. Something extraneous added to an equation (or process or machine) is most certainly not the most efficient.

I can get up in the morning and run five miles or I can get up, bow to Mecca, burn some incense, chant and then run five miles. The physical training effect will be indentical, so the ritual is extraneous.

You may say the ritual is necessary for some, but how is that different than the rituals of an obsessive compulsive who has to check every door and window twice to make sure that they are locked or washing one's hands multiple times?

I say that performing a useless activity and believing it to be useful is a form of illness.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Swami]
    #2904223 -

" I can get up, bow to Mecca, burn some incense, chant and then run five miles"

Rituals are generally dogma. They are picturesque in church, but entirely unnecessary. I NEVER said rituals were needed...I said faith and beleif were needed for the religiously inclined. As far as assuming goes, that is something you tend to do a lot of. One should never assume their inherant rightness without risking the development of tunnel vision and narrow mindedness. I believe that there are many truths and my truth is just one of many. My truth may be falsehood to others as personal truth is subjective. You are assuming I perform useless activities such as burning incense to the gods...come on that is really ridiculous. Having faith requires no time at all. Now, tell me how this is innefficient again?

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2904271 -

As far as assuming goes, that is something you tend to do a lot of.
This type of straying from the topic into personalization is generally a sign that the poster has little left to say and that the discussion is over.

You are assuming I perform useless activities such as burning incense to the gods...come on that is really ridiculous.
Now we are deep into reading comprehension problems.

Having faith requires no time at all. Now, tell me how this is innefficient again?
Faith is a mindset that I have never known of anyone to carry 24 hours a day. Every single human being (in my experience) is fearful some of the time. If that is true, then some mental preparation (time) must be needed to get into a faith mindset.

Not eating or not drinking only requires that one not eat or not drink. Nothing more complicated than that. Running only requires shorts, shoes, a path and some time. No particular mindset is required.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Swami]
    #2904306 -

"As far as assuming goes, that is something you tend to do a lot of.
This type of straying from the topic into personalization is generally a sign that the poster has little left to say and that the discussion is over."

I agree I felt this way when you personalized the topic with:
"Very deep. Is this third-grade?"
But, don't think I am getting upset as my faith is solid and questioning it does not upset me. Oh, yeah, there were assumptions made on your part about me. I was not getting personal merely stating a point.

"I can get up in the morning and run five miles or I can get up, bow to Mecca, burn some incense, chant and then run five miles. The physical training effect will be indentical, so the ritual is extraneous."

I haven't got comprehension problems you stated the above clearly.

"Faith is a mindset that I have never known of anyone to carry 24 hours a day. Every single human being (in my experience) is fearful some of the time. If that is true, then some mental preparation (time) must be needed to get into a faith mindset."

True. You carry faith with you 24 hours a day...even when fearful. It is an unconcious habit to the faithful. How would you know about this as you don't have any faith to worry about. Anything, even running, requires some mental preparation.

Now, you still need to explain how I should not have faith. I don't see any advantages to your view as your explanations are not valid. Remember I am not saying you are wrong...for you that is truth, and I accept that. Why do you believe your way is the only way. I'm not selling anything to you, but your trying to sell to me. So far, the features of your product don't seem better to me.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2904322 -

You are assuming I perform useless activities such as burning incense to the gods...come on that is really ridiculous.

"I can get up in the morning and run five miles or I can get up, bow to Mecca, burn some incense, chant and then run five miles."

I haven't got comprehension problems you stated the above clearly

Uh-huh. So I = you?


I agree I felt this way when you personalized the topic with:
"Very deep. Is this third-grade?"

Calling someone an ass is very childish.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Swami]
    #2904329 -

I did NOT call you an ass. Have you ever heard: When you assume you make an ass out of U and Me (Ass u Me=Assume). It is a saying I learned in the Army and is not meant as an insult. Have a little humor.

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Re: Exorcism and Death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2904333 -

And I heard it in third-grade - hence my comment. Have a little humor.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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