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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: s240779]
    #28802814 -

DMT definitely has a slight tolerance build up if you smoke it enough in a shortish time span. The numbers may differ for people but I’ve definitely noticed diminished effects from repeatedly hitting it, on more than one occasion. It becomes less and less visual to the point where all you get is a body high and nothing much happens with CEV’s


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: Bardy]
    #28802890 -

Bardy said:
DMT definitely has a slight tolerance build up if you smoke it enough in a shortish time span. The numbers may differ for people but I’ve definitely noticed diminished effects from repeatedly hitting it, on more than one occasion. It becomes less and less visual to the point where all you get is a body high and nothing much happens with CEV’s


I would agree with this.
the amazing thing with smoked DMT and with smoked SalviaD is the rapid absorption and delivery by blood to the brain, which - if the receptors are available, responds with strong psychedelic effects.

Since DMT is acting on the same receptors as LSD and psilocybin, it makes sense to consider that, even if the effect is shorter than psilocybin, DMT has grabbed and disabled the receptor in a similar way that LSD or psilocybin might while establishing the DMT psychedelic effects.

This should cause some tolerance.

the drama from DMT is not in the number of receptors hit overall (eg for an 8 hour trip LSD may hit a few million receptors), while during the rapid receptor onslaught of smoked DMT, we might see hitting just 1 million receptors in 2 minutes, vs 10 million in 2 hours by other substances in oral routes.

that makes the drama of smoked DMT astonishing, but this may not actually be different, over a short period of time, to the effects of LSD or psilocybin at a high dose, a few hours into a session. The peak effects of Injected LSD are typically reached much more quickly, and the overall experience is  more intense but shorter-lived than oral dosing and aftereffects and the comedown phase  resolves faster as well with injected lsd.

This suggests that the kind of brain receptor level tolerance that we see with classic oral psychedelic also happens with DMT, although the usage of DMT smoked hits more receptors quickly but fewer receptors overall during the DMT sessions than the classic oral psychedelics. Since fewer receptors were hit, within a day or so there will still be many available for a strong effect, but not the full complement that would be available if the user waited a few days.

(there is a myth about reverse tolerance with Salvia, and it is like DMT with regard to this, there is no reverse tolerance, but smoked doses do not consume all the receptors, but over a short time it blasts many of them)


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: epilectric]
    #28802946 -

epilectric said:
lol your sig


What about it?


--------------------




ATTACK OF THE KILLER APE!!!11 | G2G Video | Stare Sticks | Bags in SAB |
DMT + Laser = Reveals Alien Code Commonly Reported In Trips | JavaScript I Use To Make Shroomery Better [New]

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28803048 -

Tolerance probably depends on the dose too. No way people are breaking through 3 times in a day. Or they would definitely notice a difference by the third. But the people that just take a couple tiny drags off a vape throughout the day are experiencing much more subtle tolerance changes.

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: Icon]
    #28803130 -

Icon said:
Tolerance probably depends on the dose too. No way people are breaking through 3 times in a day. Or they would definitely notice a difference by the third. But the people that just take a couple tiny drags off a vape throughout the day are experiencing much more subtle tolerance changes.


subtle in what way


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: Syntex]
    #28803137 -

Why don't people just take this stuff orally? To me smoked DMT, while it has it's place, is just too wasteful compared to oral DMT, i took the oral DMT for 4 years straight, at least when done that way there's no tolerance, i mean you gain familiarity to DMT and the body gets used to it in a way but it definitely still works every single time. Smoked DMT on the other hand, i've read it can have some degree of tolerance, but smoked Changa or "Vaporhuasca" is where it's at as far as smoked DMT goes, then, no tolerance.


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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #28803241 -

The reason I never ate it when I had it is because I was still under the impression that I needed to follow a strict diet for a week or so beforehand. That’s what I’d read online.

If I had some DMT now I would definitely eat it.

And yeah RGV, as far as I’m aware all drugs that are agonists cause tolerance… I’m not a pharmacist though, that’s just my basic understanding 🤣 I’m probably wrong.

I don’t know why people say that DMT builds no tolerance. The tolerance goes away quickly, maybe that’s why.


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #28803300 -

Sabnock said:
Why don't people just take this stuff orally? To me smoked DMT, while it has it's place, is just too wasteful compared to oral DMT, i took the oral DMT for 4 years straight, at least when done that way there's no tolerance, i mean you gain familiarity to DMT and the body gets used to it in a way but it definitely still works every single time. Smoked DMT on the other hand, i've read it can have some degree of tolerance, but smoked Changa or "Vaporhuasca" is where it's at as far as smoked DMT goes, then, no tolerance.



I agree oral the best way but smoke is such a different experience that we might as well be talking about two different things! I personally don’t like substances and psychedelics that end so quickly (coke etc) that one has to keep hitting them like a crack pipe! But wow even when you come back to your body, smoked DMT has its own thing going on that I can’t put into words but wish I could experience for longer! It can also be hilarious!

Aya is so serious and non-recreational but spice is something I can do after a few beers or whenever! I’ll never forget the first time smoked DMT hit me, and subsequent journeys felt very similar to skydiving (not that I’ve tried skydiving) a pure exercise in letting go as you fall out of the sky gazing headlong into your own fear!

It’s not really for me because it’s too drug like and debauched around family, and I could feel it acting strongly on my serotonin or pleasure receptors, but I do think about it a lot!

Nothing compares to a full on Anahuasca trip though, as that’s rather like comparing oral weed to smoked!


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"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: wolf8312]
    #28803317 -

Quote:
wolf8312 said: I agree oral the best way but smoke is such a different experience that we might as well be talking about two different things! I personally don’t like substances and psychedelics that end so quickly (coke etc) that one has to keep hitting them like a crack pipe! But wow even when you come back to your body, smoked DMT has its own thing going on that I can’t put into words but wish I could experience for longer! It can also be hilarious!

Aya is so serious and non-recreational but spice is something I can do after a few beers or whenever! I’ll never forget the first time smoked DMT hit me, and subsequent journeys felt very similar to skydiving (not that I’ve tried skydiving) a pure exercise in letting go as you fall out of the sky gazing headlong into your own fear!

It’s not really for me because it’s too drug like and debauched around family, and I could feel it acting strongly on my serotonin or pleasure receptors, but I do think about it a lot!

Nothing compares to a full on Anahuasca trip though, as that’s rather like comparing oral weed to smoked!


I hear that. For smoked DMT i much like/prefer Changa, especially with oral Harmalas, but even then, even with the experiences and phenomena and such that can happen, i come back down and it's just too short, a nice 4 to 5 hour oral experience though is definitely more to my liking, and can even redose if i wanted to but i've never felt the need to.

I agree that oral DMT is more serious and smoked DMT can be more fun, although if you haven't yet tried, you should try either dissolving some pure DMT into some sort of liquid or make a clean DMT-containing plant tea, and then sip on the DMT-containing liquid for up to 15 minutes although iirc i do think 15 minutes may be a little too long, but 10 minutes is perfect. Sipping the DMT allows for a smoother and more relaxed/gentle come up/onset, and in a way i think some of the other properties of DMT then have a chance to come more to the forefront, so like DMT's intensity ime/imo is tied to it's Alpha 1A Adrenergic agonism, and when DMT is taken orally like in a capsule or dissolved in a drink and consumed all at once, the DMT's going to kick in all at once and it's going to trigger/activate that Alpha 1A receptor, as that seems to be it's more primary property which is stronger than that of Serotonin 2A agonism, but if you sip on the DMT-containing liquid for a few minutes or so, it allows the Alpha 2A agonism to come to the forefront which then like reduces the intensity from the Alpha 1A agonism, but also if the DMT is sipped it may also reduce the force of binding to Alpha 1A thus reducing intensity, but ime it does feel like the Alpha 2A agonism does come more to the forefront when the DMT is sipped, whereas when it's consumed all at once the Alpha 1A agonism is front and center.

So by sipping on the oral DMT, you can reduce the intensity and smooth out the come up and then it's actually pretty relaxed and not nearly as serious. Same thing with like sipping alcohol vs slamming it all back, same thing with mushroom tea, idk if it'd do similarly with LSD but probably, it seems most things can have a change in onset if it's absorption is stretched out by even a few minutes.

And, if that's not smooth enough for ya, you can always add some 3 to 4 grams of Lemon Balm tea or some other herbal tea or supplement or what not for some "flavoring" to the effects, Lemon Balm and other GABAergics for example can synergize with it all and make it feel more like a Psychedelic alcohol in a way, especially with some Cannabis in the mix lol.

Oral DMT actually surprisingly can be quite fun and gentle even with powerful effects/experiences (just with little to no come up intensity), and most people aren't accustomed to that, they just consume the oral DMT as quickly as possible and it hits intensely, but if you sip it, it's much gentler.


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Edited by Sabnock (06/06/24 10:59 PM)

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: wolf8312] * 1
    #28803320 -

You can have recreational aya trips. First step would be doing pharmahuasca so you eliminate most of the nausea factors. One of my favorite trips ever was on V-Day during a full moon. 8 of us were together, I brought 6 Pharma doses, 1 person decided to drink instead, another wanted to but I didn't have enough. Anyway it was probably the best night I had ever had. Everyone was functionally under the influence and doing different arts and communicating so openly like we were family, even though some of us were just meeting for the first time. We had so much appreciation for everything and the best feelings were resonating between us. I feel like if every party were a pharmahuasca party instead of alcohol, you couldn't go wrong. Actually the one guy drinking beer was so obviously on another wavelength, I remember him resisting and closing off from us. But we all appreciated him being with us, if only to provide a contrast to how empathetic we were feeling. There's something extra special about group aya/pharma trips, but I've had awesome trips with it solo too where I couldn't point out a single bad moment.

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Re: Is DMT worth [Re: Icon]
    #28803352 -

Icon said:
You can have recreational aya trips. First step would be doing pharmahuasca so you eliminate most of the nausea factors. One of my favorite trips ever was on V-Day during a full moon. 8 of us were together, I brought 6 Pharma doses, 1 person decided to drink instead, another wanted to but I didn't have enough. Anyway it was probably the best night I had ever had. Everyone was functionally under the influence and doing different arts and communicating so openly like we were family, even though some of us were just meeting for the first time. We had so much appreciation for everything and the best feelings were resonating between us. I feel like if every party were a pharmahuasca party instead of alcohol, you couldn't go wrong. Actually the one guy drinking beer was so obviously on another wavelength, I remember him resisting and closing off from us. But we all appreciated him being with us, if only to provide a contrast to how empathetic we were feeling. There's something extra special about group aya/pharma trips, but I've had awesome trips with it solo too where I couldn't point out a single bad moment.


Yeah sounds cool. I think part of the problem (as we were discussing in another thread recently) is a mixture of fear and expectation! If all you’ve ever done with Aya is lay down on a bed and handle it by facing everything head on, then the idea of getting up and going out becomes as daunting as the idea of laying down alone in the dark must be to others!

I definitely want to start getting out more when I trip! Especially on things like mescaline! Laying down in bed at night alone when everyone else has gone, compared to being up and out in nature and the sunshine is a no brainer really! It’s not a very good setting, as I may be facing the inside but I’m also cowering from what’s outside! But alas its not easy with a young family!

The other month I did try to have a more recreational Aya trip and just watch TV and do normal things! But when it came on I was just overwhelmed and crawled off to bed to face it/them!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28803366 -

redgreenvines said:
Nothing too strong.


super :thumbup: i understand
a good time to you then
pretty good


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: Icon]
    #28803408 -

Icon said:
Tolerance probably depends on the dose too. No way people are breaking through 3 times in a day. Or they would definitely notice a difference by the third. But the people that just take a couple tiny drags off a vape throughout the day are experiencing much more subtle tolerance changes.


Plenty of people do multiple breakthrough trips in a day. There is no pharmacological tolerance observed in any of the studies on DMT.


--------------------




ATTACK OF THE KILLER APE!!!11 | G2G Video | Stare Sticks | Bags in SAB |
DMT + Laser = Reveals Alien Code Commonly Reported In Trips | JavaScript I Use To Make Shroomery Better [New]

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: stareatclouds] * 1
    #28803459 -

you might want to back up the claim studies of *no tolerance build up* with DMT by showing links or screen caps of references.

but I agree if you go at it hard 3 or 4 times you will BT 3 or 4 times in a night if that is what you are going for. this does not mean there wont be tolerance between sessions, but it does mean that a particular kind of high feeling is not reliably achievable excepting for the break through which is a bit rough, and not like the high feeling I would be seeking, and that high feeling does face tolerance between sessions.

All the same I could go at it all night (every 20 mins), and have done, which is a bit of a more-ish approach (like crack) and similarly andrenergic-ish.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28803467 -

A study of repeated administrations of dosages of 16 mg i.v., at half-hour intervals, were made to explore the possible development of short-term tolerance and none was observed.

In the definition of DMT either as an endogenous psychotogen or, equally appealing, as a natural neurotransmitter,[ * ] it would be desirable to show that the body does not build up tolerance to it (otherwise the psychotic would spontaneously repair, and the brain would spontaneously shut down). To address this, four subjects were given some 50 mg of DMT intramuscularly, twice daily, for 5 days. The blood levels that were achieved, and the picture of autonomic effects (both in mydriasis and in cardiovascular function) were not changed. No tolerance was seen. The psychological conclusions were a little bit less convincing. Several said that the “high” was diminished, but others seemed to feel a maintenance of subjective responses. The jury is still out on this one.

Alexander Shulgin. TiHKAL. Shulgin A, Shulgin A. 1997. Part 2, #6 DMT (EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY)


*Current state of knowledge about endogenous DMT


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

Edited by s240779 (06/07/24 06:00 AM)

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: s240779]
    #28803496 -

s240779 said:
A study of repeated administrations of dosages of 16 mg i.v., at half-hour intervals, were made to explore the possible development of short-term tolerance and none was observed.

In the definition of DMT either as an endogenous psychotogen or, equally appealing, as a natural neurotransmitter,[ * ] it would be desirable to show that the body does not build up tolerance to it (otherwise the psychotic would spontaneously repair, and the brain would spontaneously shut down). To address this, four subjects were given some 50 mg of DMT intramuscularly, twice daily, for 5 days. The blood levels that were achieved, and the picture of autonomic effects (both in mydriasis and in cardiovascular function) were not changed. No tolerance was seen. The psychological conclusions were a little bit less convincing. Several said that the “high” was diminished, but others seemed to feel a maintenance of subjective responses. The jury is still out on this one.

Alexander Shulgin. TiHKAL. Shulgin A, Shulgin A. 1997. Part 2, #6 DMT (EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY)


*Current state of knowledge about endogenous DMT


an excellent book for chemists and psychonaughts, but his assessments of tolerance and effects are entirely subjective


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28803522 -

redgreenvines said:
you might want to back up the claim studies of *no tolerance build up* with DMT by showing links or screen caps of references.

but I agree if you go at it hard 3 or 4 times you will BT 3 or 4 times in a night if that is what you are going for. this does not mean there wont be tolerance between sessions, but it does mean that a particular kind of high feeling is not reliably achievable excepting for the break through which is a bit rough, and not like the high feeling I would be seeking, and that high feeling does face tolerance between sessions.

All the same I could go at it all night (every 20 mins), and have done, which is a bit of a more-ish approach (like crack) and similarly andrenergic-ish.


wow sounds good i am so happy for you


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28803565 -

stareatclouds said:
epilectric said:
lol your sig


What about it?


it's just fun :laugh: bc i occasionally read it that way too

@Sabnock i've been wondering about your age, one feeling told me you're just about my age 35, another told me you're 40. so the truth is in the middle :smile:

just did a line of K and i just have to say i love this site. thanks for having me.


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops

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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #28803610 -

Yeah i'm 34, so you were close lol.


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Re: Is DMT worth it? [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28803650 -

stareatclouds said:
Icon said:
Tolerance probably depends on the dose too. No way people are breaking through 3 times in a day. Or they would definitely notice a difference by the third. But the people that just take a couple tiny drags off a vape throughout the day are experiencing much more subtle tolerance changes.


Plenty of people do multiple breakthrough trips in a day. There is no pharmacological tolerance observed in any of the studies on DMT.


You can reach it multiple times, sure, but it's going to take more the 2nd and third time. If it took you 50mg the first, and an hour later you do 50mg again, it's not gonna be the same.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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