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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: Swami]
    #2846634 -

Quote:
The local majority killed Christ, and King was disliked throughout much of white America and even some of militant black America.

On the other hand, Capone and Hitler were well-liked and respected by many.



That is so weak. Hitler and Capone were probabaly loathed by as many, if not more than respected them.

The legacies of peace left by Christ and King continue to influence people long after their deaths.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: GazzBut]
    #2846724 -

quite a bit of inequality of understanding in almost any picture of Christ or King - truly men of compassion, men of vision, men beyond the comprehension of others, acting for betterment.
yes that is compassion.
like the bodhisattva path.

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: Swami]
    #2847208 -

Yes, that is true, but one can explain by saying: "Thank you, but it is not my Way."
My 1990 Miata broke off the selector fork in the transmission. It was 'miraculous' that after jamming fast, it somehow managed to roll backwards just enough to get onto the shoulder before permanently jamming, thus freeing up the left turn ramp on I-95. I do not own a cell phone, but THIS is one of those times that they are handy. First some guy who proceded to call me "Boss" (Anglo, possibly using prison lingo?) stopped and said that he could free up the vehicle, by monkeying with the clutch petal. Nothing of course. Thanks anyway (I wasn't gonna insist against him trying, but I wasn't gonna fork over cash either).

The next guy who stopped - Haitian man with some difficulty in English, ended up just handing me his cell phone, which disconnected a couple of times til I finally told AAA where I was. He was quite patient. I didn't have but a few bucks so I asked the man for his name and address because I was grateful and wanted to send him a check. Turns out his son attends the middle school I work at. The man said that his reward 'was in Heaven with his Lord.' OK, same response that I intended above (howsoever veiled), but to insist on payment would have been to offend him. The next day, a kid emerges from the stream of adolescent bodies flowing down the hallway, stands before me, and proudly proclaims: "My Daddy helped you yesterday!" Yes he did child, yes he did - in more than one way. Ya see, I have had some unwanted biases toward many of our Haitian immigrants down here (having worked for many years in a 97% Haitian inner-city school, rife with serious problems), and THIS man reminded me of where I was not, and re-established the perspective that every single individual has to be considered in life, and how ignorant it is to pre-judge entire groups, no matter how prevalent the negative stereotypes may be. He also manifested his Christian faith in selfless love, which I saw transcending any other quality, and it shamed me in my prejudice - unwanted though it may be. Capiche?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2847232 -

Cool story.  :grin:

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2847269 -

'Tanks!'
[U.S. Divers] :smile:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: Renegade8]
    #2847349 -

I'm not getting your question. Values, like helping people, can extend from the conscious adoption of them  into the unconscious. For example, as I've gotten older, and my moral development has progressed, I have found that what I now dream about does not differ much from my conscious attitude. To clarify - a handful of years ago, I got friendly with a 20 year old Phillipino girl who worked at my Father's nursing home. My Lady met her there and at our home, once with her sister and cousin. She was dropped off at my house by her Mom (who, it turns out, thought that I was a 'catch'), and I ended up giving this then-virgin her first kiss. Now I had 6 hours that day, and another day's opportunity to deflower this girl, but I desisted. Eventually, I told my Lady about the incident and apologized, and she accepted the apology (which would NOT have happened if I had sex with the girl).

These days, I turn down sex in my dreams! I have dreamed of kissing females, and desiring them sexually, but apparently my conscious attitude has taken root in the unconscious. This is very different from the lusty, cum-soaked dreams of my youth!  So, while one is in 'spiritual training,' one needs to be fairly rigid in one's discipline in order to train up the values that one wishes to embody. This is the same as the Buddhist Eightfold Path in many respects like 'Right Thinking,' 'Right Actions,' etc. or the 'Yamas' and 'Niyamas' of Ashtanga (Eight-Limbed) Yoga which first requires the same kind of physical and mental restrictions prior to true inner work (like me not wanting to kiss other women :smile: )

It is never selfish to help others. One can violate the Middle Path if one's helping becomes a source of pain to oneself. Then one is not being Compassionate to oneself, and is acting from co-dependence, masochism or a martyr-complex. All of these pathologies entail a subtle kind of ego-gratification and hence selfishness. If you immediately, spontaneously, without reflection, help someone, it might be that the value is already rooted in the unconscious. Of course, all this does NOT mean that we are 'egoless,' or that we no longer have a 'Shadow' or 'Evil Inclination.' But, the more we act from Compassion (the Sacred Heart, Tiphereth, the Hridayam), the more our 'spiritual center of gravity' moves from the ''natural man'' to ''the spiritual man'' - from the "Centauric" to the 'fully human.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2847367 -

Capiche?

Yes. But I also have had way too many good deeds bite me in the ass (with no idea of any compensation except to have a still-functioning vehicle afterwards) to the tune of BIG bucks and major damage on three separate occasions when helping distressed motorists (and many more times not involving automobiles).

So I have "learned" to let people take care of themselves. They "created" the situtation; they can deal with it.

Some may call that cyncial, but consistent negative feedback will have an effect on the most compassionate soul.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: GazzBut]
    #2847376 -

That is so weak. Hitler and Capone were probabaly loathed by as many, if not more than respected them.
Apparently you did NOT see the John Gotti (NYC Godfather trial) where thousands of supporters stood outside the courthouse.

What is weak about my argument other than your emotional distaste? "Probably" is your strongest counterpoint?

The legacies of peace left by Christ and King continue to influence people long after their deaths.
The legends and myths surrounding these men continue; however their compassion reaped a negative personal reward which is counter to the current of this thread.

So far, not one person has made a strong link to the cause and effect as contended.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (07/02/04 08:30 AM)

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2847582 -

Confession: In most cases, I only help others to relieve the potential guilt that might spawn if I didn't help...or if I pity them.

Would this mean I'm doing it merely to satisfy my ego?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: Viaggio]
    #2847784 -

Expiation of guilt is not Compassion. Moreover, if one experiences guilt because one is culpable [deserving of blame] for some thought or deed, that is one thing, but feeling guilty for something that one is NOT responsible for is 'neurotic guilt.' Neurotic guilt is perhaps best exemplified by Woody Allen, like when he says 'I just can't enjoy myself when I know there are people suffering in the world.' Neurosis is basically a defense mechanism that says like the bumper sticker: 'GOD lets live the longest those who complain the most.' Kind of magical thinking - if I preoccupy myself with numerous small complaints maybe the big bad terrible ones won't happen to me.

Although the dictionary's 'denotative' meaning for Compassion is 'pity,' the 'connotative' meaning for Compassion is different than pity. I learned this from Ram Dass in BE HERE NOW long ago in reference to his treatment by Bhagwan Das in the Indian 'outback.' When Ram Dass complained of chronic diarrhea, Bhagwan told him, Compassionately, to fast for a few days, but did not dote on Ram Dass with 'motherly' coddling. To paraphrase Ram Dass: 'very Compassionate, but no pity.' Compassion is active, whether one is being a good listener (a very active skill) or changing someone's tire.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: Swami]
    #2850204 -

Quote:
Apparently you did NOT see the John Gotti (NYC Godfather trial) where thoudsands of supporters stood outside the courthouse.





Whats that got to do with Hitler and Capone?????

Anyway, show me where in this thread it was contended that if you show peace and love ALL people will respond positively to it.

Methinks you may have jumped the gun a little here old chap!!


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Always Smi2le

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Re: whats the best way to show love and compassion [Re: GazzBut]
    #2850360 -

Anyway, show me where in this thread it was contended that if you show peace and love ALL people will respond positively to it.

Nowhere. Show me where I said ALL.

The point is that if you show love and compassion, some will respond positively and some may want to kill you. If you are brutal and selfish, some will respond positively and some may want to kill you. Big difference.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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